Have ABS brakes reduced the accident rate?

[bstig60]

The "ABS saved my bacon" crowd seems to deduce that every time their ABS kicked in, they would have crashed without it. I avoid ABS when I can (like my ST1100's and NC700x) and I took it off of my K1100RS. I've had the ST sideways a few times but none of them resulted in a spill. My 2013 GS had excellent ABS (unlike the old K1100RS) but in five years it never activated except when I tested it on my gravel driveway. It probably helps, OK I'm sure it helps, but I am perfectly content to avoid the expense, weight, and complexity and just work on keeping my skills up. I practice front-wheel lockups on my driveway regularly. I've never crashed from a braking error in 53 years of this two-wheeled nonsense, but of course, my comeuppance could arrive tomorrow.

Braking properly is much more about riding skill than any piece of hardware that governments or manufacturers say are there to protect us.

 

[Uncle Phil]

I reckon I must be in the 'ABS saved my bacon' crowd for one of the few times it did, it did.
With over 300,000+ miles on ABSII ST1100s, the ABS has kicked maybe 2-3 times - all in 'unexpected' situations.
I believe in practice braking and elevating your riding skills - that's all good.
But I also know that if you ride long enough over enough years and miles, there will come a situation that all the practice and skill in the world will not deliver you (either because of a lack of focus, sudden surprise, nothing you've ever encounter before, etc.).
ABS may give you the 'edge' that you can get back in before it's too late.
If I were the 'always perfect and in control' rider, then why would I even go ATGATT or even wear a helmet?
I have enough synapses left to know I ain't and I have learned after over 50 years of riding on 2 wheels that the road is an unforgiving place.
It's your circus and your monkey - do as you like.

 

[Bmacleod]

Braking properly is much more about riding skill than any piece of hardware that governments or manufacturers say are there to protect us.

You are absolutely correct, but, unfortunately, some, maybe many lack the skills needed to be good drivers/riders and technology is becoming more and more beneficial for those less than gifted drivers. I also feel that some of this tech is making some bad drivers worse. If a person doesn't know how to brake properly or adjust to weather and traffic conditions, ABS can absolutely help cut down on accidents, assuming they are not going too fast because they thought they could because they have been taught that ABS allows them to stop shorter. Despite increased training, some mandated, it seems like more and more bad drivers show up every day. They get trained on the rules to drive on our roads, but are clueless on how to actually DRIVE a car. I have strayed off course a bit to cars, but I feel that cars are the bigger problem. I feel that bikers, right away realize the importance of learning how to survive from the inherent risk of being exposed/vulnerable. Some keep that in mind and ride safely/defensively and some, according to YouTube, say screw it and ride like morons, but I still think they realize. Many cagers, i think, haven't a clue as to the risks and dangers around them and don't care... they're surrounded by steel.
Beemerphile speaks of practicing braking techniques. If everyone took riding/driving that serious and honed their skills, there would be far less need for ABS and other technology, but unfortunately the only thing that will save us is self-driving cars, but only for those that cant drive... LOL
As for ABS on my bike, I wouldn't spend the money on it if I had the chance, but if it is there I respect that it may save my bacon one day. I wouldn't knock it and say I can always do better. I really should get out and practice with it some day. All this talk is making me think that I should learn to be ready with it for if and when the time comes.

 

[Sadlsor]

My major problem with all the "safety" measures on vehicles, besides the unintended consequences as described by @rwthomas1, is the concept that anyone, or anything, or any government, is ultimately responsible for our personal safety.
I'm just old enough and ornery enough to remember the USA was founded on individual LIBERTIES, and accordingly, individual RESPONSIBILITIES. I resent uninvited intrusion in my business, and my life, and my liberties by anyone, particularly government, to include unelected bureaucrats AND elected office-holders.
The hypocrisy is blatant and offensive, to wit: legal cigarettes, illegal-sized soft drinks, in some states legal recreational pharmaceuticals to include freaking heroin, abortion on demand, fast-food restaurants, and on and on and on.
So which is it -- are we allowed to abuse ourselves if we wish, and face the consequences, or is it the government that is so compassionate about ensuring - nay, MANDATING we all must live in the healthiest environment imaginable, in all aspects of our lives?
Why the disconnect?
It's all about taking power, and CONTROLLING others.
/rant
If I have taken excessive liberties in my response, I will apologize to our hard-working moderators, and I accept this may be removed if deemed necessary.

 

[Kevcules]

My major problem with all the "safety" measures on vehicles, besides the unintended consequences as described by @rwthomas1, is the concept that anyone, or anything, or any government, is ultimately responsible for our personal safety.
I'm just old enough and ornery enough to remember the USA was founded on individual LIBERTIES, and accordingly, individual RESPONSIBILITIES. I resent uninvited intrusion in my business, and my life, and my liberties by anyone, particularly government, to include unelected bureaucrats AND elected office-holders.
The hypocrisy is blatant and offensive, to wit: legal cigarettes, illegal-sized soft drinks, in some states legal recreational pharmaceuticals to include freaking heroin, abortion on demand, fast-food restaurants, and on and on and on.
So which is it -- are we allowed to abuse ourselves if we wish, and face the consequences, or is it the government that is so compassionate about ensuring - nay, MANDATING we all must live in the healthiest environment imaginable, in all aspects of our lives?
Why the disconnect?
It's all about taking power, and CONTROLLING others.
/rant
If I have taken excessive liberties in my response, I will apologize to our hard-working moderators, and I accept this may be removed if deemed necessary.

No harm in speaking your opinion.....

 

[Sadlsor]

Thanks.
Here's hoping I haven't put myself on the wrong side of our moderators.
But several of us have strayed from the original subject line, haven't we?

 

[Trump]

The first time I ever rode a motorcycle with ABS was that a BMW open house. I think it was an RS 1200. I started up the bike and before I could join the rest of the trip I saw a “eminent break failure“ light The group rode away before I could join them. Somebody pointed out the light would go out when the wheel started moving.

Too late I missed out on a ride! No way I would ride a strange bike with the brake failure light on !

 

[Upt' North]

There was a poll posted on here sometime ago about what should you do when ABS activates when riding. It was interesting that there were many, many opinions but only one right answer provided by the majority but far from all.
The reason I mention it, is that it must be relevant to the original question, all safety systems would be more likely to provide their desired design brief if we knew how to use them.
It is very clear we don't and we most likely won't.
Upt'North.

 

[Sadlsor]

pfffftt....
Brakes are over-rated.
Just ask Noraly.

 

[Upt' North]

pfffftt....
Brakes are over-rated.
Just ask Noraly.

Who?

 

[Sadlsor]

Noraly Itchy Boots on ST-owners

Noraly doing flat-track

 

[wjbertrand]

I've had 3 bikes with ABS, I've activated all of them on occasion inadvertently. Usually I just make a mental note to do whatever I just did to activate it better next time. None of those cases I don't think would have been a crash except one that stands out. On my ST1300 heading home from work one day after a long day, so there was some degree of fatigue factoring in and split second inattention. I was in heavy traffic but moving 70-75 MPH. I checked my mirror contemplating a lane change but when I refocused ahead all the traffic had completely stopped. In spite of my training, experience and practice, I panicked and classically over-braked I was too quick and too hard on the brakes. I even beat the weight transfer to the front wheel because for a split second, the ABS was cycling but it felt like there was very little braking, an instant later as the bike's weight transferred forward, I could feel the front tire start to bite, and braking power dramatically increased. The bike began slowing quickly enough now that I could tell I was going to have enough room to stop and my panic subsided. I think without the ABS I would probably have instantly locked the front wheel and possibly gone down, sliding at 70+ MPH into the back of a column of stopped cars!

 

[SupraSabre]

I have had ST1300s with and with out. And after 385,000 miles I can say that they saved me once.

 

[Phyer Phyter]

OBD II stands for On Board Diagnostics 2nd Generation. It was brought in to standardize automotive diagnostics and repair. So that the same nomenclature and general diagnostic tools (scanners) can be used across different manufacturers. Your various control modules on a given vehicle are programmed to expect specific values for specific conditions. For example O2 sensors are used in your exhaust system to determine proper air/fuel ratios and the PCM can make adjustments to maintain the air/ fuel ratios with in a specific range for the current operating conditions. When values outside those parameters are observed and can’t be corrected a check engine light, mil (malfunction indicator light) will be turned on and a fault code will be recorded for diagnostic retrieval allowing a technician to investigate and make appropriate corrections and repairs.

 

[rdmsttrav]

I have no research to back this so anecdotally the abs on my ST1300 has prevented skidmarks of several varieties. My ST1100 without abs and my not sharp riding skills not so much.

 

[Mark286]

I reckon I must be in the 'ABS saved my bacon' crowd for one of the few times it did, it did.
With over 300,000+ miles on ABSII ST1100s, the ABS has kicked maybe 2-3 times - all in 'unexpected' situations.
I believe in practice braking and elevating your riding skills - that's all good.
But I also know that if you ride long enough over enough years and miles, there will come a situation that all the practice and skill in the world will not deliver you (either because of a lack of focus, sudden surprise, nothing you've ever encounter before, etc.).
ABS may give you the 'edge' that you can get back in before it's too late.
If I were the 'always perfect and in control' rider, then why would I even go ATGATT or even wear a helmet?
I have enough synapses left to know I ain't and I have learned after over 50 years of riding on 2 wheels that the road is an unforgiving place.
It's your circus and your monkey - do as you like.

I'm also in the "saved my bacon crowd" as well as an ATGATT proponent.

When I was in the market to buy my ST1300, I committed to myself that I would only buy an ABS-equipped motorcycle. I don't know the percentage breakdown between ABS and non-ABS, but I feel I had to pass over a lot of really nice examples because they lacked ABS. That made me question my commitment a few times, that's for sure.

I did end up with a 2009 ST1300 with ABS with which I'm very happy, but I think I paid a premium price for it. Of course YMMV and I'm completely and totally fine with people doing what they want when it comes to their gear and motorcycle equipment choices.

 

[Southwest Ranger 217]

Always ride defensively. They "cages" are always out to kill you. They never "see" you. Even when they do in an accident they claim they didn't. As i say ive never been down on a street bike im knocking on my wooden head. You cant go wrong if you always ride like "they cant see you". As for the abs, I love it.