HEL brake lines - USA models install complications? (answered - check your brake hoses fiche vs Pan)

[billo]

HEL lists a (non abs) line kit for up to 2006 Pan European. The 2007 Pan and 2007 ST1300 (US) use the same part numbers as the 2006 Pan according to parts diagrams. Is there a difference in standard brakes from 2006 to 2007? Pan to US? HEL response - “US 2007 not listed, send us your lines and we can build you some“. Not that desperate at this time but looking for insight. I’m betting others are too. Thanks.

 

[Larry Fine]

The 2007 Pan and 2007 ST1300 (US) use the same part numbers as the 2006 Pan according to parts diagrams.

So, tell them the parts are for an '06.

 

[billo]

So, tell them the parts are for an '06.

ummm, doesn’t answer my concerns. Thanks anyway.

 

[Al st1100]

ummm, doesn’t answer my concerns. Thanks anyway.

well I think you answered your question. "2007 Pan and 2007 ST1300 (US) use the same part numbers as the 2006"

 

[Mellow]

The only significant changes to the ST1300 were:
2004+ - all models now include an electric shield - 2003 only ABS versions included an electric shield.
2008+ - several brake related/ecm related changes

Article [13] - ST1300 - Model Year Changes | ST1300 Articles

ST1300 Model Year Changes 2002 ST1300/ST1300A Pan European introduced in Europe and Australia Pan Colors: Amazona green metallic; Tower silver metallic; Candy ambassador Red Recalls: High Speed Stability, Oil Pan 2003 ST1300/ST1300A introduced in US Non-ABS version also does not include the...

www.st-owners.com

 

[billo]

To the point, either HEL has incomplete application documentation or Honda has errors in parts documentation. HEL can't be bothered to check into it on their end. OEM service manuals are notorious for errors. Looking for clarification but honestly don't expect a knowledgable answer.

Thank you Mellow. Looks like we cross posted.

I'm definitely going there. Please tell your experience, tips, frustrations? Everything helps. Thanks!

 

[GGely]

Although I didn’t do HEL lines on my bike and it’s not an 1300, I’ll share the following.

Make 100% sure the lines are in exactly the correct location before you tighten them down and double check before you fill the lines with fluid. Once they’re bled it’s hard, difficult, messy, time consuming etc. to manipulate them.

 

[core-aggie]

Is there an echo ??

 

[SMSW]

To the point, either HEL has incomplete application documentation or Honda has errors in parts documentation. HEL can't be bothered to check into it on their end. OEM service manuals are notorious for errors. Looking for clarification but honestly don't expect a knowledgable answer.

Are you serious? Sure Honda has a few errors, but they are not systematic nor do they blow it for multiple parts. Errors tend to be random, as if someone typoed the number or used an old one. If, as you say, the numbers are the same for '06 to '07, that's as good as you will get. If HEL 'can't be bothered' I'd be looking for another vendor.

I used another brand of braided lines for my '78 Guzzi and the only problem I had was bleeding. For some reason we could not dislodge the bubbles until we used a vacuum bleeder. Was there a difference in braking? Maybe, but if so, it was negligible. Would I do it again? Since the price then was nearly the same for OEM and the aftermarket were readily availalble (the OEM were a special order item), Yes. Otherwise, no.

 

[billo]

SMSW,
Of course I’m serious. I don’t know what I don’t know. If someone chimed in with “there is a reason the 2007 is not listed and it is this” I would certainly research and verify. I’m just covering the bases.

 

[billo]

Crickets..
I've orderd the HEL kit from the US distributor so I guess I'll be the first. It's manufactured at the UK site so five to six weeks lead. I'll likely wait another month to install.
edit: Because of 1" bar risers, I added a note under special requirements to add an inch to the handlebar master cylinder lines. No extra charge.

 

[Al st1100]

Crickets..
I've orderd the HEL kit from the US distributor so I guess I'll be the first. It's manufactured at the UK site so five to six weeks lead. I'll likely wait another month to install.

nobody replied and that's unusual. So why are you changing all the brake lines and or hoses?

 

[billo]

I’ve recently replaced the clutch s/c, water pump, all the water hoses, brake pads, shock (Racetech) and tires. I’m the original owner and syn oil is changed every 2k miles - 58k now on the clock. Always garaged, no rainy day use, it runs/looks like new. Nothing available now compares as a total package in my eyes, especially at todays outrageous prices. I’m now set up to replace the two m/c’s on the bars, the front smc and the lines, including clutch. Just because.

 

[sirbike]

I installed the stainless kit from HEL.
Note one L.
It wasn’t that bad.
It was on my former 2001 ST1100ABS.
It’s just parts and time. It was seven years ago. Nothing stands out in my memory of any difficulties.
The most noticeable difference was when engaging the clutch.
The old line must have been spongy. I was always having to lever it just so thinking it’s just how this clutch is.
With the stainless line, engagement became more directly responsive to the lever. Much easier to modulate.
The brake lever and pedal felt better that way too, a worthy difference but not as big of a difference.
The kit surprisingly came with a couple rubber lines. After some thought, I figured that the smc sent fluid through those lines. It appeared that there would be no tactile benefit for them to be stainless.
Just because is a great reason.

 

[billo]

Thank you sirbike.

 

[billo]

Here is a group shot:

It's the front , rear and clutch lines for non ABS. The longest line is the clutch. It's a single run from master to slave.
The HEL site says it's a 14 line kit, add another for the clutch. I count 13 total so have an inquiry in with the US retailer.
Here are a couple of connector close ups.

This (Nylon?) block is captured. Once bolted to the frame, the pipe connecting to it can be tightened.



This block is split. The block pops right off. A 13mm wrench holds the connector firmly while tightening the pipe connection.






Instructions not included.

 

[sirbike]

I see 15 lines. There are two “pieces” there with two “lines”.
This may be a project that you have to just keep moving towards the goal one task at a time without thinking too far ahead. Get one line in place then move to the next.
The one thinking ahead issue is as suggested already, have everything loosely in place before tightening it all down. No instructions because these tasks are all presumed to be within a trained mechanic’s ability and the product manufacturer does not want the liability of instructing an unqualified person.

 

[billo]

sirbike,
Thank you. I see what you mean by line count and piece count. I think you are right.

 

[billo]

Update.
I practiced up on my V-Strom, rebuilding the calipers with new pistons and seals, replacing the brake lines and adding a radial master cylinder. The weather's cooled down some and I've finally begun the ST linked brake odyssey. I've found the locations for each line with the exception of one - It's in the group shot in the top right corner, the middle line with a block at each end. The photos following it show the type of connectors it has. All the hoses in the Honda parts fiche are covered and no loose ends so I'm not too worried at this time. The Pan kit does seem to fit the US model exactly.

 

[billo]

Ok, I found the mystery hose. It's shown on the rear hoses parts fiche. I missed a fifth line shown in the master cylinder fiche so no leftover hoses. All the lines are in place, new caliper piston seals and lubed slide pins. This kit is a go for the 2007 standard brake US bike with a couple of reservations. But first some pics: