Cheap insurance and peace of mind, especially after 100k miles. I did mine too, now that I think of it. My bike should be ready for 100k easy now. 
Help removing ST1300 throttle bodies
- Thread starter dduelin
- Start date
acedantinne
Site Supporter
Thanks for the reply, Sennister/Dave. Good info if i need some day to replace alt. Fingers crossed. 510 dollars
Yes part # 21.
Kevin
OP
OP
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2006
- Messages
- 9,657
- Location
- Jacksonville
- Bike
- GL1800 R1200RT NC700
- 2024 Miles
- 010688
- STOC #
- 6651
The Sweetest Sound!
With the parts in hand Friday night I began reassembly. The alternator went in OK but that hidden bolt on the underside resisted tightening gamely. I could only see it with a mirror and turn it 1/16 of a turn each time but eventually the new alternator was in and wiring tested OK. That was Friday night.
Yesterday I was gone most of the daylight hours riding to a MSTA RTE on the 700 but I started on the coolant hoses after 5 PM. The two hoses to the oil cooler were very difficult both to get off and replace. I guess because they are just above the exhaust headers and an inch away from the engine block they were practically welded onto the metal stubs of the cooler which is built into the base of the oil filter mount. The space is very tight and I thought I might have to drop the exhaust headers on the left side to get the hoses back on but a long pair of 45 degree needle nose pliers from Harbor Freight and some sleight of hand with a screwdriver did the trick. I spent about 90 minutes on these two hoses. The pliers were $3.99 and will probably break the next time I use them but they did the trick. The other hoses were quickly done. I was glad I took lots of pictures and a few notes during disassembly about how the various hoses were routed over, under, and beside themselves and other components. I replaced all 11 coolant hoses as I never want to be in there again and now I am feeling good about the life of the hidden hoses next 100,000 miles.
I reused all the OEM hose clamps. I know that they get a lot of complaints in this forum but aside from a scare at 86,000 miles when I noticed grimy black evidence of a coolant leak that was fixed by cleaning the mess up and then snugging the clamps up again I my 2005's engine has remained largely clean and leak free for 7 years and 117,000 miles.
The OEM coolant hose clamps should be oriented so that the screw heads are accessible from the front except for the two that clamp hoses onto the cylinder heads. These have the screw heads pointing up and can be accessed for snugging by removing the airbox and peeling back the rubber mat. At a valve check or involved service it is simple to give each clamp a few turns and forget about them until the next time. The small hoses that run water into the cold start valve have spring steel clamps on them and they are inaccessible without removing the throttle body. Those have to be left to faith alone as they are in the abyss that cannot be accessed with the throttle bodies in place. I think they carry cold water and when the bypass is closed by the thermostat they aren't under pressure and do not route hot water so they never leak anyway. Mine looked like new but I replaced them anyway plus the bypass hose at the radiator end gets hot from ambient and radiant heat.
I have a bunch of expensive SS AWAB clamps in my boat parts spares bin and I would have been covered if I needed a new one but one thing I noticed about the OEM clamps that differ from normal worm gear clamps is the presence of a large "saddle" inside of the perforated band that ensures when the clamp is tightened around a rubber hose the non-perforated saddle presents an even flat surface with the same radius of the hose that does not cut into or damage the hose. Cheaper hose clamps do not have this saddle and often the perforations cut into the hose over time and the clamp does not tighten in a uniform circle of the radius of the hose it is on. Something to think about and gave me confidence to reuse them.
After getting the oil cooler hoses done the rest of hoses went on quickly and I moved onto replacing the throttle body. Taking the advice of others I replaced the vacuum lines with longer ones that allow easy access to the five-way fitting. My five way had the #4 cylinder port completely blocked. Carb cleaner blew out the blockage. I smeared a little silicone grease onto each of the 4 throttle body inlets and it easily popped back into place and was secured by it's clamp bands. It was really easy compared to taking it off!
After the TB was in place I rerouted and connected the various wire harness connecters. I connected my voltmeter to the battery, turned the key, and pressed the starter button. The V4 came to life, rather hissed to life! It sounds very different with no air box in place. The system voltage rose to over 14 volts showing the charge system is back in business and the bike will be ridden again soon. I am going to do a valve check today and try and get the air box and gas tank back on but I feel really good the engine started and the alternator is putting out once again and that is enough for this weekend. It was enough just to hear the engine start up - what a sweet sound!
With the parts in hand Friday night I began reassembly. The alternator went in OK but that hidden bolt on the underside resisted tightening gamely. I could only see it with a mirror and turn it 1/16 of a turn each time but eventually the new alternator was in and wiring tested OK. That was Friday night.
Yesterday I was gone most of the daylight hours riding to a MSTA RTE on the 700 but I started on the coolant hoses after 5 PM. The two hoses to the oil cooler were very difficult both to get off and replace. I guess because they are just above the exhaust headers and an inch away from the engine block they were practically welded onto the metal stubs of the cooler which is built into the base of the oil filter mount. The space is very tight and I thought I might have to drop the exhaust headers on the left side to get the hoses back on but a long pair of 45 degree needle nose pliers from Harbor Freight and some sleight of hand with a screwdriver did the trick. I spent about 90 minutes on these two hoses. The pliers were $3.99 and will probably break the next time I use them but they did the trick. The other hoses were quickly done. I was glad I took lots of pictures and a few notes during disassembly about how the various hoses were routed over, under, and beside themselves and other components. I replaced all 11 coolant hoses as I never want to be in there again and now I am feeling good about the life of the hidden hoses next 100,000 miles.
I reused all the OEM hose clamps. I know that they get a lot of complaints in this forum but aside from a scare at 86,000 miles when I noticed grimy black evidence of a coolant leak that was fixed by cleaning the mess up and then snugging the clamps up again I my 2005's engine has remained largely clean and leak free for 7 years and 117,000 miles.
The OEM coolant hose clamps should be oriented so that the screw heads are accessible from the front except for the two that clamp hoses onto the cylinder heads. These have the screw heads pointing up and can be accessed for snugging by removing the airbox and peeling back the rubber mat. At a valve check or involved service it is simple to give each clamp a few turns and forget about them until the next time. The small hoses that run water into the cold start valve have spring steel clamps on them and they are inaccessible without removing the throttle body. Those have to be left to faith alone as they are in the abyss that cannot be accessed with the throttle bodies in place. I think they carry cold water and when the bypass is closed by the thermostat they aren't under pressure and do not route hot water so they never leak anyway. Mine looked like new but I replaced them anyway plus the bypass hose at the radiator end gets hot from ambient and radiant heat.
I have a bunch of expensive SS AWAB clamps in my boat parts spares bin and I would have been covered if I needed a new one but one thing I noticed about the OEM clamps that differ from normal worm gear clamps is the presence of a large "saddle" inside of the perforated band that ensures when the clamp is tightened around a rubber hose the non-perforated saddle presents an even flat surface with the same radius of the hose that does not cut into or damage the hose. Cheaper hose clamps do not have this saddle and often the perforations cut into the hose over time and the clamp does not tighten in a uniform circle of the radius of the hose it is on. Something to think about and gave me confidence to reuse them.
After getting the oil cooler hoses done the rest of hoses went on quickly and I moved onto replacing the throttle body. Taking the advice of others I replaced the vacuum lines with longer ones that allow easy access to the five-way fitting. My five way had the #4 cylinder port completely blocked. Carb cleaner blew out the blockage. I smeared a little silicone grease onto each of the 4 throttle body inlets and it easily popped back into place and was secured by it's clamp bands. It was really easy compared to taking it off!
After the TB was in place I rerouted and connected the various wire harness connecters. I connected my voltmeter to the battery, turned the key, and pressed the starter button. The V4 came to life, rather hissed to life! It sounds very different with no air box in place. The system voltage rose to over 14 volts showing the charge system is back in business and the bike will be ridden again soon. I am going to do a valve check today and try and get the air box and gas tank back on but I feel really good the engine started and the alternator is putting out once again and that is enough for this weekend. It was enough just to hear the engine start up - what a sweet sound!
- Joined
- May 6, 2008
- Messages
- 6,183
- Age
- 66
- Location
- Lompoc, California
- Bike
- 07 & 12 ST1300A
- SPOT
- LINK
- STOC #
- 8057
Nicely done! I bet that was a great sound to here when she fired off and everything is working!!
Throttlejockey
Padden is my hero
Glad you got it up and running Dave!
BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
Glad it's running Dave. You probably couldn't have done it without all our help.
Good Work! Glad to hear you got it running again. That pesky #4 vaccum line and 5 way tee are always the one's I find clogged the most....I wonder why?
Also, thanks for pointing out the directions of the hoseclamps for ease of work from both the front direction and from under the rubber matt. This may help some folks.
Now get out there and start dodging aligators again.
Also, thanks for pointing out the directions of the hoseclamps for ease of work from both the front direction and from under the rubber matt. This may help some folks.
Now get out there and start dodging aligators again.
John Anthony
Moderator
Very nicely done! And kudos to all of the members who pitched in with advice. I learned a lot from this thread.
John
John
OP
OP
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2006
- Messages
- 9,657
- Location
- Jacksonville
- Bike
- GL1800 R1200RT NC700
- 2024 Miles
- 010688
- STOC #
- 6651
I only rode 6 miles today
But those 6 miles were on my ST1300!
Yesterday I did a valve check and found every valve in specification and then a throttle body synch. I was surprised the vacuum levels were as close as they were and only two cylinders needed just one click of the adjuster nuts on the starter valves. After the bike cooled I spent some time cleaning up the hard to access parts of the bike normally under the fairing and seat then let it idle for about 30 minutes to check for any leaks. Today I got the the upper gas tank back on. That new connector hose was no picnic. After the fairing parts were in place I washed the bike and went for a ride to check it out and fill it up with gas to verify the gas gauge was going to work properly. I connected my multimeter to the electrical system to check for alternator output during the ride to the station and it looked good.
As it was getting dark I came right back home with a great feeling this job is behind me and the ST is running great again. I want to thanks Sennister and brka13 and the forum for help. There were older threads I referred to at times that showed this or that as I went along.
I ordered one of these today so in the future I will get some indication of the health of the charging system. It might not be much warning and would not have helped me out in the middle of nowhere but it is better than the no warning the bike has now. I plan to mount the LED indicator under the existing panel of warning lights on the right side of the instruments.
http://www.rocketmoto.com/index.php/clearwater-voltage-sentry-cvs-lead-acid-gel-agm-battery.html
But those 6 miles were on my ST1300!
Yesterday I did a valve check and found every valve in specification and then a throttle body synch. I was surprised the vacuum levels were as close as they were and only two cylinders needed just one click of the adjuster nuts on the starter valves. After the bike cooled I spent some time cleaning up the hard to access parts of the bike normally under the fairing and seat then let it idle for about 30 minutes to check for any leaks. Today I got the the upper gas tank back on. That new connector hose was no picnic. After the fairing parts were in place I washed the bike and went for a ride to check it out and fill it up with gas to verify the gas gauge was going to work properly. I connected my multimeter to the electrical system to check for alternator output during the ride to the station and it looked good.
As it was getting dark I came right back home with a great feeling this job is behind me and the ST is running great again. I want to thanks Sennister and brka13 and the forum for help. There were older threads I referred to at times that showed this or that as I went along.
I ordered one of these today so in the future I will get some indication of the health of the charging system. It might not be much warning and would not have helped me out in the middle of nowhere but it is better than the no warning the bike has now. I plan to mount the LED indicator under the existing panel of warning lights on the right side of the instruments.
http://www.rocketmoto.com/index.php/clearwater-voltage-sentry-cvs-lead-acid-gel-agm-battery.html
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2007
- Messages
- 4,216
- Age
- 49
- Location
- Grant, MN (aka Stillwater)
- Bike
- ST1100 & ST1300
- STOC #
- 6145
Glad I could assist a little but it was likely more moral support than much else.
Nice to see that you are back on the road.
Nice to see that you are back on the road.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2007
- Messages
- 4,216
- Age
- 49
- Location
- Grant, MN (aka Stillwater)
- Bike
- ST1100 & ST1300
- STOC #
- 6145
Well, my bike is starting to look like what yours did. I have my throttle bodies out and on the work bench...
OP
OP
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2006
- Messages
- 9,657
- Location
- Jacksonville
- Bike
- GL1800 R1200RT NC700
- 2024 Miles
- 010688
- STOC #
- 6651
What is the reason?
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2007
- Messages
- 4,216
- Age
- 49
- Location
- Grant, MN (aka Stillwater)
- Bike
- ST1100 & ST1300
- STOC #
- 6145
Two reasons.
The first one and main reason I went in this deep is because I need to replace some valve shims on the right side of the engine. The cam chain tensioner release for the right side is in the V of the engine up near the T-Stat. I might have been able to get in there without pulling the TB but it would have been really tight.
The other reason and the reason they had to come out was that I told myself that the next time I am down under the air box area I was going to replace the idle adjustment cable. Mine has been seized up for a while now. The cable is only $20 so might as well swap it out. While I might have been able to swap the cable without pulling the TB, I doubt I could have without knowing how the cable is attached and the amount of screwing around with trying to do the task would have been much longer than pulling the TB. I have had them off before (coolant lines) so it isn't a big deal and gives me a good chance to inspect how things look under there.
Oh then there is the fact that we have a foot of snow up here with a good inch of ice on the road that I live on. No riding anytime soon for me. This was all planned spring maintenance. I do need to order up some parts like the cable. I wanted to wait until I got in there so I could order everything I needed. I have already added quite a bit to my order.
OP
OP
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2006
- Messages
- 9,657
- Location
- Jacksonville
- Bike
- GL1800 R1200RT NC700
- 2024 Miles
- 010688
- STOC #
- 6651
Oh I see. Without the need to replace the idle adjustment cable you can access the RH cam chain tensioner without disturbing the throttle body. Yes, it is tight but I did it without a problem when I needed to reshim a valve on that side. I used a small (3/16 or 1/8", can't remember) flat blade screwdriver and a little pair of vice grips instead of the Honda special tool. Others had done it before me and the procedure using a screw driver is outlined in one of the tech forums here. The screwdriver winds up the tensioner and the vice grips hold the screwdriver in place. I put the screwdriver in Mellow's traveling Hot Shims kit for the next user. I had to file it a little bit to fit in the hole.
The idle adjustment cable on mine was free and I placed a drop of machine oil where the shaft comes up out of the plate that contains the threaded nut the cable housing bears against in hopes of keeping it that way. I think the TB would have to be removed to replace it as it comes up from the underside into the TB plate.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2007
- Messages
- 4,216
- Age
- 49
- Location
- Grant, MN (aka Stillwater)
- Bike
- ST1100 & ST1300
- STOC #
- 6145
Yeah, I found the tensioner and I agree it is accessible with the TB in place. I did the trick with a screwdriver when I did the left side a while back. The right side was getting really close so I put it off for a winter/spring project. Well, it is winter now. With the TB out I did pull the cable off to see how it works. Like you said it comes up from the bottom and while I might have been able to do it with the TB in place I would have been screwing around with it for a while. Without knowing how it came off I don't know if it would be possible. Well I could have gotten the old one off but putting the new one in wouldn't have been easy. I think it took me 30 minutes to get the TB out and it will be another 30 min to put it back. So the frustration levels from the other tasks makes up for the hour in my book.
I was looking at the Honda tool and it is actually a fabricated tool. I don't think that it is something you can buy. I was thinking about making one but I haven't yet. I'll have to pull out the manual and see what it says. I might have some scrap metal laying around that is the right thickness. If not I'll just do the screwdriver trick that I did last time.
I borrowed a Hot Cams kit last time I did the shims. A few weeks ago I picked up a kit for myself. Might as well have one on hand.
acedantinne
Site Supporter
Re: I only rode 6 miles today
Dave, Sennister, do we have a poll on alt. failures? Might be some good info to put together. Miles,Farkles,etc. I just run Gerbing gear. No gps or any other electrics. How about a list of what to look for and replace when your in to the repair? thanks Bob/ace
Good job Dave. That charging system read out looks neat. Please show the install, as I know it will be first class, by U.
Dave, Sennister, do we have a poll on alt. failures? Might be some good info to put together. Miles,Farkles,etc. I just run Gerbing gear. No gps or any other electrics. How about a list of what to look for and replace when your in to the repair? thanks Bob/ace
Good job Dave. That charging system read out looks neat. Please show the install, as I know it will be first class, by U.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2007
- Messages
- 4,216
- Age
- 49
- Location
- Grant, MN (aka Stillwater)
- Bike
- ST1100 & ST1300
- STOC #
- 6145
Re: I only rode 6 miles today
Of course all of this has to do with the 1300. The early 1100s are well known for alternator failures. So most searches will point to those bikes. Take them out of the results and you will discover it is fairly difficult to find stuff on alternator failures. That is why Dave posted this. If I recall he was having a hard time finding someone that had replaced one.
I don't think that the failure rate is all that high. Mine has never failed but I do know of a couple failures here in the US. While I am sure not all of them have been posted here but I would guess that if you were to get replies you would maybe fine 10 people. Not very common to say the least. That said failure rates seem a bit higher in the UK. Most of the ones that I have read about were over there. I suspect it has to do with road treatments. I also have seen photos of UK bikes and they seem to suffer from a lot more corrosion than I have ever seen on a bike here. Again points to road treatments. Of course totally speculation on my part but the alternator is air cooled so one could expect a certain amount of road spray to get to it. If you live in an area that sees more sea air (Dave lives in an area like this) one could expect a slightly higher failure rate.
Of course all of this has to do with the 1300. The early 1100s are well known for alternator failures. So most searches will point to those bikes. Take them out of the results and you will discover it is fairly difficult to find stuff on alternator failures. That is why Dave posted this. If I recall he was having a hard time finding someone that had replaced one.
acedantinne
Site Supporter
I only know of 1 other. Kevin, here in Pa. i believe he was out west when it happen. He mention about sub harness replacement.
Thanks for the reply.
Thanks for the reply.
Ditto to both.
I'll be looking for moral or otherwise support this spring when it gets warm enough to check my valves...