HISS issue. Confirm my diagnosis?

[jfheath]

No . Red herring if you are getting those messages everything seems to be OK

I think what I thought at the start. You've been given a key that has not been paired.

 

[Accidental Ironbutt]

You've been given a key that has not been paired

Its possible. Or the ECM was swapped without swapping keys.

Regardless, I'm in the same situation, aren't I ? I'll need a new ECU with matching keys, or some ECM-repair voodoo that can pair the key I have with the ECM ?

 

[Accidental Ironbutt]

Oh, and I found the multi-point connector that I think you were talking about. It's located above the left cylinder-head with 24+ connections in it ?

All the connections there goes to lights and the dash, nothing to the HISS (routed on the right side of the bike) or ignition (separate connector).

Either way, I took the multi-point apart, cleaned it out, inspected and reinstalled.
Did the same for the connector that goes to the ignition.

 

[jfheath]

Its possible. Or the ECM was swapped without swapping keys.

Regardless, I'm in the same situation, aren't I ? I'll need a new ECU with matching keys, or some ECM-repair voodoo that can pair the key I have with the ECM ?

Very possibly. Im still trying to come up with the alternative answers. I'd hate to say yes and then all that money doesn't fix it. Have you ruled out microwave transmitters in the area? A friend told me of a garage that he stopped at once. Filled up with fuel and then couldn't start the bike. Owner came out, pointed to the transmitter and told him to push it up the road a bit and try again.

And that sorted it.

 

[Accidental Ironbutt]

Have you ruled out microwave transmitters in the area?

My house is surrounded by wheat-fields. Closest structure (that isn't mine) is over a kilometer away.

Only transmitters I have are WiFi access-points, which are about 100m away in a different building.

I'd hate to say yes and then all that money doesn't fix it.

Oh, don't worry about it. I was prepared to spend that money even before I bought the bike, as it was advertised with a known HISS fault.
You've helped me more than I could wish for. Hopefully this thread can help someone that has more luck than I do.

 

[Duporth]

Wow, this is a very interesting hi-tech exchange. Fascinating reading, all very complex. I’m very happy to say my HISS has been faultless and I have two original ‘live’ keys I will guard closely.

Extraordinary knowledge John, and others! Well done... goodness me!

 

[jfheath]

The (USA) schematics that show the multiway connectors) i mentioned are here.

Article [13] - ST1300 - Wiring Schematics for 03-07 Standard | ST1300 Articles

My previous bike's manual had a color coded wiring schematics and it was very easy for follow the wires. After becoming cross eyed looking at the B/W ST1300 schematics, I'd decided to create a colored version. I might have missed a line or a description here or there, so if you happen to see a...

www.st-owners.com

 

[Accidental Ironbutt]

Just to keep the history intact here. I sent off the ECM to Carmo Electronics in the Netherlands, and they took four days in total until they said "Ok, we're done, where should we send it back to?".

I assume they opened the ECM and did some magic in there. Total cost, including two new keys that are coded to it (uncut though) was 390 EUR.

Now I just need to wait for UPS to actually get it back to me, and I might just be able to start this darned thing.

 

[Accidental Ironbutt]

Got the ECM today.

The darned thing works! It works beautifully!

Finally, I can motivate spending money on servicing _everything_ else on the bike.

Again, thank you so much for your insights @jfheath !

 

[jfheath]

That is really good. I'm not sure how I helped, but I am pleased that you think that it did.

The information about Carmo Electronics in Netherlands would be really useful to post on here. Can you get them to say (in general terms) what they did to sort it ? Ask them if they would mind you posting details of the service, overview of what they did, price and their contact details and website. It would be a very useful article for lots of folks on here.

For example, Did they use your existing keys or have you been issued with brand new ones. it would be interesting to know whether your original key was paired with the ECU or not.

I found this link to their site which describes reprogramming the ECU if all keys are lost. Perhaps that is what they did.

Whatever - I am really pleased that your bike is working again. You must be absolutely delighted after all of the worry and hassle.

 

[Accidental Ironbutt]

Oh, I'm sure I can manage without them telling me what they did. Not terribly difficult to figure out once I got the ECM back.

So, the process with Carmo was that after contacting them on their contact-form on their website ( https://www.carmo-electronics.com/ ), they told me to create a support ticket in their support-site ( https://support.carmo-electronics.com/ ).
I filled in a description of what bike it is, what issue I had and what I was going to send in.
In this case, I sent in the ECM and the one key I had with a chip in.
The service I requested was "I lost all my keys and need new ones" (or words to that effect).

Since this is how you'd more-or-less get new keys for a stolen bike, I also had to send in the purchase receipt and a copy of my drivers-license.

I sent the ECM+keys to the address they gave me and waited for what felt like forever for DHL to get the package there.
Just a few hours after DHL said "Delivered", the ticket got updated with "Your ECM has arrived in good condition", which was nice to know.

They claim that it typically takes three days for them to do the work, and they got mine done in four days.

When they got done, they updated the ticket with info about how to pay. It involves going to a third site (!!) ( https://www.carmo.nl/ ) and buying the service they just performed, and putting the ticket # in the order comments.
In my case, I bought "Programming 2 keys + keys" for €306,59 and the slightly faster UPS shipping for €18,33. The total came to €404,94 including VAT.

This is what the ECM looks like now.



So, they cut a hole in the plastic case, removed the potting underneath somehow, presumably reprogrammed an EEPROM, and re-potted it.

Now, with regards to the keys, I didn't get back what I expected, but after thinking about it, I think it's better like this..
I paid for two new (uncut) keys, coded to the ECM. I also sent in my cut key with a chip in (but the ECM didn't recognize as valid).

I expected to get two new (uncut) keys, coded to the ECM, and my old one, still not paired with the ECM.
What I got back was one new (uncut) key, and my old one back, but now coded to the ECM.

This turned out to be a bit more convenient, as I immediately have a key that works 100% (cut and coded), and a spare that just needs to be cut.

Sure, €404 seems like a lot of money, but then again, I got the bike for probably €1000 below market-price because of it having a HISS error, so I still feel okay about it.
The relief I felt after installing the ECM, turning the key and hearing the fuel-pump kick in (which means the ECM accepted the key) was the best feeling I've had in a while.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

How about writing them back to ask them specifically if they can repair ST1300 ECM's that are having the code 25/26 (knock sensor) failure code problem. No one does this repair that I know of. Having a resource would be good.

Good news about your bike. Hopefully you will be able to enjoy many miles on it come summer.

 

[Accidental Ironbutt]

code 25/26 (knock sensor) failure code problem

I just wrote to them and asked. Lets see what they say.

 

[mjc506]

Good to see where they cut the ECM anyway, could be useful later

 

[jfheath]

Their website says not able to fix the code 25/26 - I spotted that when I was looking around. But you never know whether they have found wasy since the website was made.

Thanks for all of the extra info @Accidental Ironbutt - brilliant write-up.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Their website says not able to fix the code 25/26 - I spotted that when I was looking around.

I saw that as well John but...... It has been my experience with electronics that often someone is able to repair something even though they state otherwise on their website. or do not advertise that particular repair service. The reason seems to be because it is a very high risk repair in the sense that a successful outcome can not be assured like with most repairs that they do. Because of this they do not want the hassle of complaints, returns, demands for reimbursement, bad reviews, etc., so they just state that they don't do it.

The very same shop, when asked directly, will sometimes respond that they;
have repaired that particular failure and that they have had a 50/50 success/failure rate. Because it is unpredictable and a gamble, we are willing to try to repair it for you with the understanding that we make no promises, we will offer no guarantees if we are successful, and we will not refund you if we are not successful.
Putting that type of statement on their website doesn't look good for a repair business, so they just stay away from mass advertisement of that repair.

I had the same situation with a Ford F150 ECM that I was told over the phone was irreparable. It was taken there to talk to the guy in the shop about it anyway. He said that he'll give it a go if we wanted to take the chance, but no promises were made. He did successfully repair it, so it was worth being persistent even though we were initially told that they don't do that repair.
I had the same thing with a Sena communicator. When asked publicly on their FAQ page the shop said that they don't repair Sena communicators. I contacted the shop privately anyway and asked about it. I was told that there is a 50% chance that he can repair it because he has successfully repaired some in the past.

The takeaway is that it never hurts to ask. Because of the many people who have this problem, and with no new replacement ECM's being available any longer, I ask every automotive/truck/motorcycle/ electronics shop that I ever go to or deal with if they can or would attempt to repair one of these ECM's. One time I might find someone who says yes, and it would be good to find a resource that might at least give it a try.

 

[Accidental Ironbutt]

Just heard back from Carmo.

They're aware of the problem, and that it affects the GL1800 and CBR600RR as well.

Unfortunately, they aren't able to fix it. However, they added a "yet" to that statement, as well as "We are trying to find a solution", so it seems like they're aware that there's definitely a market for someone able to repair it.