how crowded is your cockpit?

I must make it clear that my comments on GPS and other add on features are my own opinion from observation of my own tendency to be distracted and not a condemnation of anyone, I understand that different riding demands different needs. IE Iron Butt rides. Everyone has conflicting parts of their riding personalities, mine is being easily distracted. Recognizing my short comings is the best way to be safe, I prefer to analyze each ride for mistakes that I make as I ride. For instance my opinion is that if I am in a place where you can hit me I made a mistake and yes I know that is not a black and white comment but a "watch out" thing on my mind.
 
motornut said:
Recognizing my short comings is the best way to be safe
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I couldn't agree more. Truer words are rarely spoken.
Most of the time when I have seen people get in to trouble riding beyond their ability, including me, was when they are trying to keep up with someone who's riding ability exceeds their own. Recognizing our own limits goes a long way towards self-preservation.
 
motornut said:
I must make it clear that my comments on GPS and other add on features are my own opinion from observation of my own tendency to be distracted and not a condemnation of anyone, I understand that different riding demands different needs. IE Iron Butt rides. Everyone has conflicting parts of their riding personalities, mine is being easily distracted. Recognizing my short comings is the best way to be safe, I prefer to analyze each ride for mistakes that I make as I ride. For instance my opinion is that if I am in a place where you can hit me I made a mistake and yes I know that is not a black and white comment but a "watch out" thing on my mind.
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As I understand technology, GPS works everywhere, our phone or apps that need internet to access usage of gps fail regularly.
Your opinion should be well noted by anyone traveling in the north. Your on your own up there, I'm told by folks lifesaver won't go get you on some of the Dalton road....you gotta make it too fairbanks. Always post opinions......
 
oude geit said:
As I understand technology, GPS works everywhere, our phone or apps that need internet to access usage of gps fail regularly.
Your opinion should be well noted by anyone traveling in the north. Your on your own up there, I'm told by folks lifesaver won't go get you on some of the Dalton road....you gotta make it too fairbanks. Always post opinions......
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There are a couple of GPS phone apps that do not use data. Most new cell phones have a GPS in them, and it works all the time. The issue as you said is when you have no cell data signal so you can't see the maps, and only see an arrow in grey space. The 2 apps I use are Osmand maps and Here We Go (both on my iphone) They have pay features, but I use them in free mode which just limits how many "maps" you can download.

The will run with data, or completely offline.

If you need a GPS, buy a dedicated GPS. If you want to try these as alternatives or backups, then certainly do. I have both and each has it's strengths.
 
Yarz said:
would you mind sharing a photo of your ST cockpit, taken from behind the handlebars? You rally riders and IBR vets, especially, how are you mounting aux light switches, multiple GPS devices, radar detectors, phones, volt meters, EZPass holders, etc.... I'm starting to farkle my first new-to-me ST1300 and learning that there ain't much room up there for devices once you take into account the space needed for raising the fuel tank, handlebars on lock-to-lock turns, raising/lowering the windshield, etc... I'm curious how and where devices are getting placed.
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Lots of work but well worth it.
Overview
Controls.jpg

Right cluster with TPMS, Sony Action Cam controller and Spotlight switch above start button.

20230730_143849.jpg

Left cluster, Heated Grips controller

HtdGrpSw.jpg

Right cluster Spot light switch.
Right Cluster LEDSpots Sw.jpg

Overview. My Galaxy Note 10+ fits into the case top left. Two RAM mounts replace the original Clips. TomTom GPS in Center. I made the GPS shroud from a couple of plastic flower planters.
20230730_143839.jpg


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Voltmeter connected directly to the battery and fused.

Voltmeter-2.jpg

USB Connector-2.jpg
 
MerlF said:
Lots of work but well worth it.

Overview. My Galaxy Note 10+ fits into the case top left. Two RAM mounts replace the original Clips. TomTom GPS in Center. I made the GPS shroud from a couple of plastic flower planters.
20230730_143839.jpg
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MerlF -- For the devices in place overtop your instrument cluster, how are you securing the power cords so that they don't constantly slide around and scar the bike's plastic? I know there are convenient spots on that front panel under the windshield to use to tuck the power cords down into the front and run to the aux fuse box, but between the device and the existing hole in the plastic, how are your power cords held in place?
 
Yarz said:
MerlF -- For the devices in place overtop your instrument cluster, how are you securing the power cords so that they don't constantly slide around and scar the bike's plastic? I know there are convenient spots on that front panel under the windshield to use to tuck the power cords down into the front and run to the aux fuse box, but between the device and the existing hole in the plastic, how are your power cords held in place?
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Ty Raps and flexible plastic conduit. Every run of wire is encased in this conduit. For the phone cord and GPS cord I dremelled some grooves in the front piece of the dash. Barely noticeable.

GPS cable.jpg

Plastic Conduit
Ignition and plastic conduit.jpg


Phone Cable.jpg
 
Andrew Shadow said:
Just my opinion of course, but I personally think that this location is a big part of the reason why many people who use a GPS while riding find it distracting. It forces a person to redirect their sight significantly away from the road to see it, which also diverts their attention away from the road. If an on-board GPS is going to be used while in motion I think that the least attention diverting, and therefore least distracting, place for it is up high where the amount of deviation of your eyes away from the road that is required to see it is the least.

I know that there are those who will say that the speedo, tach, fuel gauge, temperature gauge, etc. are down low and they do not present a problem. I don't see these things in the same category as a GPS. We only glance extremely quickly at these gauges, literally a few tenths of a second at most, and we have gleaned the information that we need and our attention is back on the road ahead. A GPS demands a much longer look to aquire the information that we need, especially in an area where there are a lot of roads and therefore a crowded GPS screen. We are still talking small amounts of time, but in a purely hypothetical comparison 6 tenths of a second is still double 3 tenths of a second. My point being that it will always take significantly longer to focus and acquire the needed information off of a GPS screen than the amount of time needed to glean the required information off of a fuel gauge. At 70 MPH, that extra time can put you in harms way faster than you think.

Humans are not as good at multi-tasking while driving as we like to believe. There are many videos available from studies that have been done where cell/smart phone use while driving has been tested. People who are convinced that they can use their phone while driving, and who regularly do, ultimately always crash in simulators and find out that they are not as good as they thought that they were. This includes teenagers and young people who's brains are more naturally adept at multi-tasking than older people. It seems that we view driving (riding) as easy because we do it so seamlessly, but it requires more of our attention than we appreciate. A GPS is no where near as distracting as using a cell/smart phone in my opinion, and these studies seem to agree with that, but it still does require significantly more attention than a fuel gauge does, so I put mine up high in my line of sight and hopefully I have put the odds in my favour.

To Yarz, the above is the reason why I posted the links to the dash shelf. It is my opinion that anything that you add that will require regular monitoring, such as a GPS, should be up high in this location so as not to divert your eyes from the road for any longer than necessary. Items that do not require visual interaction, or very little and infrequently, can be placed elsewhere.
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You haven't driven a Tesla yet then. Nothing on the dash in front of you just a flat panel screen between the front occupants, yes very distracting, Except for the S maybe.
 
MerlF said:
You haven't driven a Tesla yet then. Nothing on the dash in front of you just a flat panel screen between the front occupants, yes very distracting, Except for the S maybe.
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I haven't driven one, but I have been in one. I thought that the single large screen to control everything is a bad design as far as how efficiently and safely the driver can interact with the controls. There was a test done on automotive switch/gauge/control layout a year or two ago that proved this. The most efficient, quickest, easiest, and least distracting controls are the knobs that the operator turns or flips up or down like were common before touch-screens came to be. This is because of the tactile advantage that they offer allowing the driver to manipulate these controls by feel without the need to look at them. The worst were the electronic touch-screen controls because they necessitate that you look at them to do anything, which demands that you take your eyes off of the road. The more menus choices and sub-menus needed to do something the worse they are as far as contributing to driving safely goes.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
I haven't driven one, but I have been in one. I thought that the single large screen to control everything is a bad design as far as how efficiently and safely the driver can interact with the controls. There was a test done on automotive switch/gauge/control layout a year or two ago that proved this. The most efficient, quickest, easiest, and least distracting controls are the knobs that the operator turns or flips up or down like were common before touch-screens came to be. This is because of the tactile advantage that they offer allowing the driver to manipulate these controls by feel without the need to look at them. The worst were the electronic touch-screen controls because they necessitate that you look at them to do anything, which demands that you take your eyes off of the road. The more menus choices and sub-menus needed to do something the worse they are as far as contributing to driving safely goes.
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The reality is the touchscreen nonsense is much cheaper for the manufacturer. So its not going away. At this point the only thing that will make driving safer is self-driving cars.
 
Obo said:
There are a couple of GPS phone apps that do not use data. Most new cell phones have a GPS in them, and it works all the time. The issue as you said is when you have no cell data signal so you can't see the maps, and only see an arrow in grey space. The 2 apps I use are Osmand maps and Here We Go (both on my iphone) They have pay features, but I use them in free mode which just limits how many "maps" you can download.

The will run with data, or completely offline.

If you need a GPS, buy a dedicated GPS. If you want to try these as alternatives or backups, then certainly do. I have both and each has it's strengths.
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Waze allows you to run without a data connection, it just takes a bit of forethought. Download the map of the area you will be travelling in your Google account and there's no problem. I have done this several times and it works well.
 
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Pardon my dumb question, I have heard before that you can download maps to use offline, but how does the device update your actual location?
 
STFlips said:
Pardon my dumb question, I have heard before that you can download maps to use offline, but how does the device update your actual location?
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The GPS receiver of a smart phone is always functional, unless it has been turned off. It always knows where it is relative to the GPS satellites that it is receiving signals from. These signals are not dependent on internet or data access, they are transmitted freely at all times through the air to any receiver that is capable of receiving their signals. It is the maps that allows us to interpret that information as a location on a map. If you have the map for the area that you are in downloaded to the smart phone, so that this map can be accessed without the need to connect to any outside source, the GPS receiver in your phone will plot your location on that map.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
The GPS receiver of a smart phone is always functional, unless it has been turned off. It always knows where it is relative to the GPS satellites that it is receiving signals from. These signals are not dependent on internet or data access, they are transmitted freely at all times through the air to any receiver that is capable of receiving their signals. It is the maps that allows us to interpret that information as a location on a map. If you have the map for the area that you are in downloaded to the smart phone, so that this map can be accessed without the need to connect to any outside source, the GPS receiver in your phone will plot your location on that map.
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And then you need to get the maps from an app of your choice and proceed to use that app?
 
DeanR said:
And then you need to get the maps from an app of your choice and proceed to use that app?
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Yes. You need an interface between the data being sent to the GPS receiver and something that will turn that data in to what you see on the screen as a location on a map. That can be as simple as Google maps. Google maps allows you to download maps to your phone for off-line use.

My GPS only has maps of North America. Whenever I travel overseas I download the map of where I am going on to my phone using Google maps. I then use my phone as a GPS if I need help finding something or getting somewhere. The only difference between using Google maps on-line and off-line is things like live traffic data, location of speed traps, etc., does not work. Using it as a GPS to find your way around works just as well.
 
I have driven a Tesla and like the car, but the passenger is the only one who messes with the touch screen. On the test drive that touch screen is wicked to be used by the driver.
 
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