how crowded is your cockpit?

Andrew Shadow said:
I haven't driven one, but I have been in one. I thought that the single large screen to control everything is a bad design as far as how efficiently and safely the driver can interact with the controls. There was a test done on automotive switch/gauge/control layout a year or two ago that proved this. The most efficient, quickest, easiest, and least distracting controls are the knobs that the operator turns or flips up or down like were common before touch-screens came to be. This is because of the tactile advantage that they offer allowing the driver to manipulate these controls by feel without the need to look at them. The worst were the electronic touch-screen controls because they necessitate that you look at them to do anything, which demands that you take your eyes off of the road. The more menus choices and sub-menus needed to do something the worse they are as far as contributing to driving safely goes.
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We own a tesla, but my wife drives it 95% of the time so I may not be the best reviewer(?). That being said, and I'm sure there are easier ways to do things but, I find myself going menus-deep all thr time. Something as seemingly simple as changing the temperature requires looking at the screen, finding the appropriate control, and pressing said control. All the while ensuring that my finger is in the right place. On my 11 year old pickup, I simply reach down and turn the knob. Often without really looking. Just to redirect the vent(s) you need to pull up the correct screen, and drag the picture where you want the air. Gotta open the glove box? 2 menus deep and then push the icon.

rwthomas1 said:
The reality is the touchscreen nonsense is much cheaper for the manufacturer. So its not going away. At this point the only thing that will make driving safer is self-driving cars.
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Agreed. But Tesla doubled-down to further sell this "clean concept" by removing things that would be cheaper, and more robust IMHO, and making them digital (see "glove box"). Don't get me started on self-driving cars. I'm in the middle of a long road trip and we subscribed to FSD, for the month to see how it worked. Not a fan and it was almost more work having to monitor what it was doing, and complying with it's request to "put pressure on the wheel" every 15-30 seconds. Haven't used it much in the city yet so maybe that is where it will shine, but so far it's done some wonky things.

motornut said:
I have driven a Tesla and like the car, but the passenger is the only one who messes with the touch screen. On the test drive that touch screen is wicked to be used by the driver.
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When you drive solo you have no choice but to use that screen.

The car itself is a joy to drive. Maybe not if you're a luddite. While not as adept as today's 20-somethings, I'm also not adverse to technology. I run servers in my home, have turned much of my house into a smart home, and used to, in a past life, program computers and administer networks. *Sigh* Maybe I'm just getting old.
 
Nexus said:
I find myself going menus-deep all thr time. Something as seemingly simple as changing the temperature requires looking at the screen, finding the appropriate control, and pressing said control. All the while ensuring that my finger is in the right place. On my 11 year old pickup, I simply reach down and turn the knob. Often without really looking. Just to redirect the vent(s) you need to pull up the correct screen, and drag the picture where you want the air. Gotta open the glove box? 2 menus deep and then push the icon.
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That was the focus of the study that I referred to earlier, which I can't find now of course. The basis of it was that they had many people drive several different vehicles with all different types of control interfaces represented from the newest touch-screen types like Tesla has all the way to the old knobs and dials found on pre-electronic vehicles. The focus of the study was how using the vehicles controls contributes to distracted driving, not what control works better or allows better control over the vehicles systems. They monitored how long it took to accomplish various tasks like changing the heater controls, adjusting the radio volume, changing radio stations, turning on and off various lights of the vehicle, etc.. In addition to how long it took to do these tasks, they also monitored how long the driver's eyes were redirected away from the road to accomplish each of these tasks. What they found is that the more touch-screen type controls that there were in a vehicle, the more distracted the driver was because operating the controls took to much of the driver's attention away from the road for to long to accomplish a given set of tasks that are commonly performed while driving. The vehicle that represented the old style of controls where tactile feel alone could be used to manipulate the knobs and dials without the need to look at them was a 1970's Volvo. This Volvo resulted in the best scores of all of the vehicles insofar as the drivers being able to manipulate the controls not only in the least amount of time, but also with the least amount of distraction and the least intense level of distraction of their attention from the road.

I am a big proponent of technology in vehicles because, as an automobile mechanic who was repairing cars pre and post the introduction of computerization in vehicles, I saw first-hand how the progression of technology has vastly improved the efficiency and the reliability of vehicles. At the same time I have always been of the opinion, and still am, that the use of technology and computerization for no other purpose than the use of technology and computerization is not always the best course of action. The old style radio knobs do not eliminate the ability to have the current technology that is inside the computerized touch-screen systems. The simplicity and ease of turning a knob to increase or lower the volume setting, or open a glove box, will always be a far superior and more efficient interface between a human and that system than a touch-screen control. The old knobs and dials are not the best control method for every vehicle system of course, but for certain types of controls it still makes more sense.

Sometimes it is a case of just because you can does not mean that you should.
 
I didn't read the study, but heard it reported weeks ago on the radio.
The one that still has knobs and pushbuttons.
Which I prefer, even as a geek.
 
Sadlsor said:
I didn't read the study, but heard it reported weeks ago on the radio.
The one that still has knobs and pushbuttons.
Which I prefer, even as a geek.
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That's what I like about the old cars. As they had analog guages. Water temp, oil pressure, battery voltage and fuel level. now all we have are "idiot" lights.
 
I don't need a lot of gadgets in the cockpit, but I do want them in front of me.

I built this panel for over the dash installation with heated grip controller ( yes they still work) gear indicator, GPS and voltmeter. The RAM mount components have been replaced with Tackform mounting hardware, which shortens the GPS stick out from the panel.

IMG_3132.JPG

I made a stiffener bracket that attaches to the windshield adjuster frame and the two holes in the upper dash:

IMG_3026.JPG

The back side of the panel is waterproofed with black flex seal spray and an ABS cover was placed on top:

20230801_151147.jpg

20230801_151508.jpg

I know the mileage is low, can you please laugh offline? :rolleyes:
 
Paul said:
I don't need a lot of gadgets in the cockpit, but I do want them in front of me.

I built this panel for over the dash installation with heated grip controller ( yes they still work) gear indicator, GPS and voltmeter. The RAM mount components have been replaced with Tackform mounting hardware, which shortens the GPS stick out from the panel.

View attachment 318124

I made a stiffener bracket that attaches to the windshield adjuster frame and the two holes in the upper dash:

View attachment 318125

The back side of the panel is waterproofed with black flex seal spray and an ABS cover was placed on top:

View attachment 318126

View attachment 318128

I know the mileage is low, can you please laugh offline? :rolleyes:
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That looks pretty slick. Nice job
 
Andrew Shadow said:
That was the focus of the study that I referred to earlier, which I can't find now of course. The basis of it was that they had many people drive several different vehicles with all different types of control interfaces represented from the newest touch-screen types like Tesla has all the way to the old knobs and dials found on pre-electronic vehicles. The focus of the study was how using the vehicles controls contributes to distracted driving, not what control works better or allows better control over the vehicles systems. They monitored how long it took to accomplish various tasks like changing the heater controls, adjusting the radio volume, changing radio stations, turning on and off various lights of the vehicle, etc.. In addition to how long it took to do these tasks, they also monitored how long the driver's eyes were redirected away from the road to accomplish each of these tasks. What they found is that the more touch-screen type controls that there were in a vehicle, the more distracted the driver was because operating the controls took to much of the driver's attention away from the road for to long to accomplish a given set of tasks that are commonly performed while driving. The vehicle that represented the old style of controls where tactile feel alone could be used to manipulate the knobs and dials without the need to look at them was a 1970's Volvo. This Volvo resulted in the best scores of all of the vehicles insofar as the drivers being able to manipulate the controls not only in the least amount of time, but also with the least amount of distraction and the least intense level of distraction of their attention from the road.

I am a big proponent of technology in vehicles because, as an automobile mechanic who was repairing cars pre and post the introduction of computerization in vehicles, I saw first-hand how the progression of technology has vastly improved the efficiency and the reliability of vehicles. At the same time I have always been of the opinion, and still am, that the use of technology and computerization for no other purpose than the use of technology and computerization is not always the best course of action. The old style radio knobs do not eliminate the ability to have the current technology that is inside the computerized touch-screen systems. The simplicity and ease of turning a knob to increase or lower the volume setting, or open a glove box, will always be a far superior and more efficient interface between a human and that system than a touch-screen control. The old knobs and dials are not the best control method for every vehicle system of course, but for certain types of controls it still makes more sense.

Sometimes it is a case of just because you can does not mean that you should.
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I suppose the silver lining is that eventually, some distracted driver, will sue Tesla after getting into an accident while trying to open the glove box (or some other mundane task). Then they'll decide to go back to the safer, simpler days. Meh, who's kidding who? It'll be just one more waiver to sign.
 
Paul said:
I built this panel for over the dash installation ... The RAM mount components have been replaced with Tackform mounting hardware, which shortens the GPS stick out from the panel.

I made a stiffener bracket that attaches to the windshield adjuster frame and the two holes in the upper dash:

View attachment 318125

The back side of the panel is waterproofed with black flex seal spray and an ABS cover was placed on top:
Click to expand...

Very nice work!

So what's the reasoning behind replacing RAM with TRACKFORM? It appears they both use the same ball-and-grasper concept.
 
Fascinating posts! My bike came with the MCL ball mount with the round power port that I haven't used at all yet. Someday a heated vest? Added seeme lights with a rocker switch at left side, heated grips left side. Made simple brackets from aluminum rectangular stock (about 3/8"wide) from the home store. Easy to bend and drill. They mount the Sykik camera display on the left and Garmin Nuvi on the right. Drilled and secured to the cowl. I didn't feel too bad adding holes to the cowl as the previous owner had left a few there. Added a 12v outlet and usb outlet to the right side (speaker?) grill to power Garmin and occasional phone charge cord. Wired everything with relay controlled bus bar with separate relay and inline fuses. So far so good! Again, fun to see so much creativity for mounting all the goodies.
 

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I really do like the stiffener that you put in, really nice job of fitting it Nothing really makes it harder to read than having it shake and move while trying to read it. Knowing how to weld is really nice isn't it.
 
DaveD said:
Fascinating posts! My bike came with the MCL ball mount with the round power port that I haven't used at all yet. Someday a heated vest?
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That looks nice and tidy!
I didn't want to use a power port for my GPS, so I connected it through the quartet harness. That will free up a 12v socket for ya.
For electric warmth (a good thing!) I used the same principle... rather than use up a socket, I went to the battery which will ultimately be wired through a fuse box. Your vest / gloves will be more reliable, as sometimes these add-on power sources do fail. Especially my connectors and wires and adapters; my USB socket won't stay on now, even though I've confirmed there's power to the Powerlet socket by my right glove box.
And through the years I've used various "cigarette lighter" styled adapters to DIN or SAE power connectors, many of which simply no longer work.
I would hate to be on a cold ride and have my electric jacket or gloves fail due to some connection to a power receptacle or adapter.
 
Okay I am a Luddite, Que-tip, old school and old fart. I like fuel injection, like the way the new suspensions work, really like the tire technology has come along.
Am I stuck between to worlds?
And I posted this as a inoffensive way. Not offended and open to being giving a bad time. Ha Ha
 
motornut said:
Not offended and open to being giving a bad time.
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The trick is not to become a slave to technology. I have never been a believer in technology for no other reason than the sake of technology.
Use the technology that is of benefit to you, even if that means for no other reason than just for the fun of using it, and don't use the technology that you don't want.
If I don't need it, or don't want it, it is more of a nuisance than a benefit. If I need it or want it, it usually provides a benefit to me in some way or I wouldn't bother with it.

The fly in the ointment is the technology that we don't really want and don't really need but have to adopt because we are given no choice. Not much we can do about that in many instances.
 
Yarz said:
Very nice work!

So what's the reasoning behind replacing RAM with TRACKFORM? It appears they both use the same ball-and-grasper concept.
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The Tackform flange base and ball coupler removed 1 inch of length over the shortest RAM setup.
 
And of course I can whine about it and shake my cane from my rockin' chair on the front porch. Nice thing about most complaints which are like having gas. You are uncomfortable, so you squirm around a bit, put up a stink and you feel better. I won't change anything and honestly don't want to go backwards. But I feel better!
 
Where can I get an arm to go between the ball on my bike GPS and the ball on the clamp?

Anyone have one for sale, or a set for sale, kinda cheap?
 
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