How hard is it to mount the car tire?

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I have a Suzuki SX4 that has 205/50-17 tires on it. I decided since I've been mounting my own MC tires for over 10 years now I'd try car tires.

I use a Harbor Freight changer using tire irons. First in trying to break the bead on the Suzuki rim I thought I'd break a weld or pin on the changer before the bead finally broke. Then after mounting it in the changer I couldn't even pry the first bead up over the rim! Car tires are WAY stiffer and thicker than MC tires. This is with normal length MC tire irons. I didn't even try the bar that comes with the HF changer.

I was SO ready to put on the Hankook at my next change but this has totally changed my mind on it. Never mind that I can't do my car tires either. (I was in the process of fabing a static car tire balancer with mixed results but that's another story)

Since others have talked about cutting off car tires and bending their ST rims mounting them I think I'll stick to MC tires.
 

Gene

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Cutting off? Bent rims? When did these things happen ????? Sound like the fear rumor mill at work again from those who don't like the cookies. Please post links to these actuall things happening on this board or any other board to a St 1300 so we can seperate fact from opinon
 
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Pete in PA
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I mount Kumho RF tires on my GW rim using my HF changer. Yes it's harder than a m/c tire, but quite doable. Just take your time and use lots of ruglyde.


Tim in Burien, WA
 
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Pete in PA
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I'm NOT looking for a reason, I was ALL ready to mount and use a car tire. Remember I rode on one already and liked it. It's just that after trying to budge that bead and it not moving AT ALL got me thinking. Car rims are thicker than MC rims so they can take more force during the change. Also with one CT here slipping on the rim with 42 lbs in it isn't good either. (Never got an update on THAT problem.)
 
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I might be able to help out a bit here.

I have a Hankook tire on my 1300. I also use the HF tire changer and have been changing tires with that for 2 years and MC tires for about 5.

I don't use the bar that came with the HF changer. I bought the Mojolever and use his Mojo Blocks on the HF to prevent damage to the rims. How hard it is to mount the tire? It is a bear. Could it be done with regular iron. Maybe but it would not be fun. The Mojolever is about the same length as the HF stock bar so you might get it done with that. I just don't like the metal on the rims. The Mojo has plastic where it rides on the rim. I will say that the first side of the tire went on as easy as a PR2. I was thinking, hey this won't be that bad. Then I got to the other side and all progress came to a halt. Nothing I tried could get the tire on. I couldn't fold the tire enough due to the stiff sidewall to keep it in the groove to get the bead on so I just chased it around. I had my wife come out to lend a hand and that didn't work. In the end I used my biggest C clamp which has about an 8" opening to pinch the tire more to keep from chasing it around. I have read of others having to do the same thing. Another tip if you haven't done so already but take the 2 bolts out of the bracket that goes up and around on top of the tire. This prevents you from going all the way around the tire as you have to stop when you get to that bar. I pulled mine a long time ago and haven't had any issues. I have seen pics of others that did the same.

Now I have never removed a tire. Here is the challenge as I see it. In a MC tire you break the bead and then can get the spoons in there to pull the bead. Well on the CT I never set the bead. With the tire lube that I used it just popped into place. Maybe now that the lube is gone I may be able to get it to break and stay broken while I put the wheel in the changer and get the lever in there. I don't know what will happen when it comes time to remove it. I know it won't be fun. Worst case I have an Uncle that has access to a car tire changer which he uses to change his Goldwing tires. I will it there for at least removing the tire. If I do that much and I do another CT which I probably will, I will have him mount it as well. Worst case I will resort to cutting it off. I won't know about that until I get to that point.

As for static balancer. I copied the Marc Parnes balancer. I saw one that another member had and liked it. Since I have a metal lathe I just made one with some 2" aluminum Bar that I had and some bearings. It works great. However I have seen some reports of the rear CT slipping on the rim. I kind of wonder if I feel the same at times. More so when I first mounted it. It really didn't take much weight to balance (1/2 oz if I recall) so it isn't a big deal but if it does slip a little then possibly something like dynabeads would be better in the rear wheel or rideon as they would balance the tire for you. Just an option.

The link that was posted above about the bent rim and brake issue. It makes me think they mounted the rim so the rotor was up when they were doing this. I always mount the rim with the rotor down so I don't put pressure on the rotor with the lever. It doesn't really matter which side is up or down. This doesn't help with a possible bent rim but would prevent damage to the brake rotor.

Hope that helps being we have pretty much the same equipment and I have mounted one before. I can't help with the dismount much yet as I haven't done that yet.
 
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I just use a car tire machine. Pay your local cage tire shop the $7 or so to change it. The CT costs at least $50 less than a rear MC tire, and you change it 1/3, or less, as often.

I changed mine a couple weeks ago and had no problem. But its your call.

Jim

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schlep1967

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Hey pete,
I just changed the tire on my daughters focus last week with my cycle hill changer. Positioning was everything when using the bead breaker. Make sure the breaker is coming straight down or slightly angled in toward the rim so the breaked slides as close to the rim as possible. Used nothing but the mount/dismount bar that came with the cycle hill changer. Go to the cycle hill / nomar web site and look for their instructions (pdf) then follow where they say to put the lube on the tire before mounting. It makes all the difference in the world when mounting the tire. I'm not sure about the tire you were trying to get off but I wouldn't even think about trying a low profile tire on a manual changer.

Just looked at some google images for that tire. Low profiles. Many of the older powered tire machines have problems with those. 50's and 60's are definately going to be tougher than 70's or higher.
 
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I just use a car tire machine. Pay your local cage tire shop the $7 or so to change it. The CT costs at least $50 less than a rear MC tire, and you change it 1/3, or less, as often.

I changed mine a couple weeks ago and had no problem. But its your call.

Jim

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The challenge is finding a shop to do it. I bought my tire from a local tire shop and they looked at me like I was insane. They didn't come out and say they wouldn't be liable but as he started to basically say that I explained that all I wanted was the tire and that I would mount and balance. They were fine with that. If they go through the process of actually fitting the tire to the wheel they may introduce a layer of liability. They may be up for taking the old one off and disposing of it when you pick up a new tire. While fitting the tire was a bit of a challenge, I know now to go right for the big C-clamp which will save time and I can do myself. Another tip is those wheel clamps that they make to keep the tire from slipping when mounting. I think No-mar sells them. With something like that you may not need the C-clamp.
 
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Hey pete,
I just changed the tire on my daughters focus last week with my cycle hill changer. Positioning was everything when using the bead breaker. Make sure the breaker is coming straight down or slightly angled in toward the rim so the breaked slides as close to the rim as possible. Used nothing but the mount/dismount bar that came with the cycle hill changer. Go to the cycle hill / nomar web site and look for their instructions (pdf) then follow where they say to put the lube on the tire before mounting. It makes all the difference in the world when mounting the tire. I'm not sure about the tire you were trying to get off but I wouldn't even think about trying a low profile tire on a manual changer.

Just looked at some google images for that tire. Low profiles. Many of the older powered tire machines have problems with those. 50's and 60's are definately going to be tougher than 70's or higher.
While I think the profile comes into play part of the issue may also be how wide the tire is. I wonder if it would be easier mounting a tire that wasn't so wide. What is the stock tire width? 160 I think on the 1300 and we are bumping that up to a 205. I know that the rim width falls in the acceptable range but that pressure pulling out on the bead as the tire tries to snap back to the natural shape is partly what you are fighting to get the bead down into the groove to get the second side on. The CT doesn't like to fold in the middle of the tread to give like that. A narrower tire would loose out a little on life so it is a trade off. The 205 fits even though it sure doesn't look like it will.

I guess I am just curious as to why we go so wide? I know on the 1100 there isn't an option that they can go with that is nearly as wide as the 1300 option.

EDIT: Well on a quick Tirerack search I think I see the issue. There are no options for a tire that is something like a 195/50-17 or 185/50-17
 
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Yeah, that is what I am thinking of. I have never used one so I can't say for sure if it would make the CT easier to mount but it would help prevent the problem of chasing the bead around the rim. That is the issue that it is designed to correct when mounting a motorcycle tire. I have never needed one personally.
 
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It works with a MC tire. Use it all the time.
Well I stand there and watch Rulbe do it LOL.
 
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It works with a MC tire. Use it all the time.
Well I stand there and watch Rulbe do it LOL.
Yeah I have seen videos of them in use and they look slick. I can see where they would be nice when mounting a BT023 or BT020. If they work on the CT all the better. I just don't know if they have been tried but I don't see why it wouldn't help. The only thing I have to say is that I can mount a BT023 and BT020 myself without it or a C-clamp. It takes a little fighting but it is possible. The CT on the other hand, I couldn't do.
 
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Sennister, you hit the nail on the head about why we are using the wider tires. I wish there was an option for a narrower, but I haven't found one in a 17" diameter. As for getting a cage shop to mount a tire, use a bit of deception. Maybe tell them its going on a Spider (most cage shops would have no idea about them...), or its for a bike equipped with a sidecar or something. If all they see is the wheel and tire, they would have no idea what its really going on.

As for changing cage tires by hand, I've done quite a few using big pry bars on the garage floor, and even on the trail for 4x4 tires. Instead of the typical tire irons, I use a combination of large pry bars and very large screwdrivers. Lots of lube, a good technique, and patience makes it go better. Of course, the lower the profile the tire is, the more difficult the job becomes.

Jim
 

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Only advice I could extend is if it gives you a problem you don't have the right equipment or knowledge. I see nothing harder about mounting a car tire than a MC tire other than smashing the sidewall/bead down into the drop-center of the wheel opposite where you stick the tire iron in. Watch a YouTube video of them changing a 14 ply truck tire. With the right tire irons they make it look positively simple and that's doing it all by hand with nothing to hold the rim. Good luck! Don't give up. We'll tease you. :D
 
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Sennister, you hit the nail on the head about why we are using the wider tires. I wish there was an option for a narrower, but I haven't found one in a 17" diameter. As for getting a cage shop to mount a tire, use a bit of deception. Maybe tell them its going on a Spider (most cage shops would have no idea about them...), or its for a bike equipped with a sidecar or something. If all they see is the wheel and tire, they would have no idea what its really going on.

As for changing cage tires by hand, I've done quite a few using big pry bars on the garage floor, and even on the trail for 4x4 tires. Instead of the typical tire irons, I use a combination of large pry bars and very large screwdrivers. Lots of lube, a good technique, and patience makes it go better. Of course, the lower the profile the tire is, the more difficult the job becomes.

Jim
That is a good point. I told them it was going on a motorcycle and they kept correcting me saying it was a trike. Then I point to the 1300 in the parking lot and he looked completely confused. So that may work that they won't know better.
 
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Pete in PA
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Thanks for all the replies, I've still got much to think about. I think all with a CT should mark the tire and rim to check for slippage. For all I know my MC tires could be slipping, without marking I'll never know. Now with winter setting in (for MOST of us) all R&D will come to a halt.:(
 
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