How many have never adjusted the Valves

[DaveST]

Not with an OHC motor. Cold is loose.

 

[George]

Dave, you just contradicted yourself. Which do you believe to be true?

In fact, cold is loose so your last post is correct.

As to "has anyone suffered engine damage?" Yes. Jeff had the first documented case of a burned exhaust valve I'm aware of. Digiamo had the second (tho I believe we heard of one other in the interim. In any case, both those were on 1100s, not 13s.

Another question was, "Has anyone suffered engine damage due to not checking?" No way really to tell on that one. Anonther question would be, "Has anyone suffered engine damage despite consistent checks?"

STay tuned...

 

[dduelin]

Would anyone want to buy something from someone that neglected recommended maintenance?

 

[DaveST]

George you are correct. I'm wrong in my 2nd post.
OHC motor the clearance is the most when cold. Push rod motors are the opposite.
From what I've read the shape of the cam has more to do with the clearance specified than heat. So my older bikes have nothing to do with the conversation. Different shape cams. Not as much lift and "rounder" ramp.
At what mileage were the failures and what was the gaps? Were they checked?

dduelin. How much is a "perfect" ST13 with 200,000 miles worth? Not much more than a beat one, I'm guessing. Part of my questioning of what would happen and when would it be an issue?
That's what we do here. Take brand new bikes and turn them into junk. These bikes have lousy re-sale value anyway.
You all see my beat bike you would think George was riding it!

 

[Kevin_56]

You all see my beat bike you would think George was riding it!

Nah - Yours is a 1300.

 

[Kevin_56]

Would anyone want to buy something from someone that neglected recommended maintenance?

But, doing the checks does not insure they were done right. I am not saying you did not do it right, just no way of knowing if I were to buy your bike.

 

[barto]

I've got a '99 ST1100 with 54,000 miles on it. (Bought it about 20 months ago with 34,000). Valves have never been checked, at least not by me.

 

[George]

Good one Dave. I wouldn't buy a bike from me, serious neglect and long miles. OTOH, my 3 have over 400,000 miles between them. I've saved enuff on oil 'n filter changes to buy another engine. And, I've got another engine (for STanley, nee ReSTored, so figure I'm even at worst. )

Understand the confusion between push-rod 'n OHC. Thanks for the clarification.

Danny's motor was well over 200,000 when it burned a valve; can't testify as to his maintenance. I know Jeff's bike had good maintenance and still burned a valve, so...

 

[skipcurt]

Bought an '04 in '09 with 11k miles from the second owner and he didn't know if it was done or not. Now have 35k and really want to do it but don't have the know-how or the tools to do it and also missed the last tech day here in GA.
Hopefully someday somehow.

Skip

 

[hoowasat]

I confess that I did not perform my first check until 28k miles. I found one exhaust and one intake valve that were both 0.001" out of spec. I installed correctly sized shims and buttoned her back up, and I don't plan on doing the next check until about 56k miles. But realizing the valve gaps had shrunk over time got me to thinking ...

If one studies the geometry of the ST1300 valve train, one may wonder why the gaps get smaller (tighter) with use. One would tend to believe the gap would get larger with normal wear. Unlike an engine with rocker arms, the ST1300 V4 valve components are all in line, directly on top of each other. The camshaft imparts a force down onto the tappet, which then transfers that force through a shim onto the valve stem. If any of these components exhibited any wear, the gap would increase with use ... but ours decrease with use.

The camshaft lobe, tappet and shim are not "growing," so what's moving? I doubt the valve's stem gets any longer when it's subject to repeated compression forces. The only thing I can think of which may move is the valve seat in the aluminum head. After a valve has been pounded shut a few million times, it's conceivable that the seat might get hammered deeper into the softer material of the cylinder head. After continued use, the seat is hammered no further into the cylinder head because the softer material has been compressed as far as it will go. And THAT is why I believe the initial valve checks are the most important.

Doing a valve check can be a laborious task, but the peace of mind it provides is priceless.

 

[ChucksKLRST]

I confess that I did not perform my first check until 28k miles. I found one exhaust and one intake valve that were both 0.001" out of spec. I installed correctly sized shims and buttoned her back up, and I don't plan on doing the next check until about 56k miles. But realizing the valve gaps had shrunk over time got me to thinking ...

If one studies the geometry of the ST1300 valve train, one may wonder why the gaps get smaller (tighter) with use. One would tend to believe the gap would get larger with normal wear. Unlike an engine with rocker arms, the ST1300 V4 valve components are all in line, directly on top of each other. The camshaft imparts a force down onto the tappet, which then transfers that force through a shim onto the valve stem. If any of these components exhibited any wear, the gap would increase with use ... but ours decrease with use.

The camshaft lobe, tappet and shim are not "growing," so what's moving? I doubt the valve's stem gets any longer when it's subject to repeated compression forces. The only thing I can think of which may move is the valve seat in the aluminum head. After a valve has been pounded shut a few million times, it's conceivable that the seat might get hammered deeper into the softer material of the cylinder head. After continued use, the seat is hammered no further into the cylinder head because the softer material has been compressed as far as it will go. And THAT is why I believe the initial valve checks are the most important.

Doing a valve check can be a laborious task, but the peace of mind it provides is priceless.

It is the valve SEAT that wears, This causes the valve to set further in the head which decreases the gap between the valve stem and the cam/ tappet.

A hardened steel Valve and a soft aluminum Head.

 

[FieSTa45]

My 91 now has 56K & the vlaves have not been check....... Let's go luck number 7

 

[Des]

I always check my valve clearances at the specified intervals. Only just got the ST so checked them while doing my initial servicing, all with spec.

To be honest, the valve check on the ST1100 is so easy, I don't see why I wouldn't do it? I guess the 1300 is similar too.

On my previous bikes, my FireBlade's were all within spec every time, sold it at 52,000 miles.

My VFR750 had screw/locknut adjusters which I adjusted a couple of times.

 

[nhdiesel]

It is the valve SEAT that wears, This causes the valve to set further in the head which decreases the gap between the valve stem and the cam/ tappet.

A hardened steel Valve and a soft aluminum Head.

The first part of your statement is true...but even with aluminum heads, the valve seats are hardened steel, pressed into the aluminum head. So the hardened valve seals against the hardened seat. Even with both hardened steel parts, though, closing thousands of times a minute takes its toll. Very slowly, over time, the valve and seat wear and the valve sinks deeper in the seat (and, therefore, in the head), closing the valve to cam lobe gap.

Jim

 

[DaveST]

Honda Civic racer guys put both in. and ex. a .001" tighter than spec. at cold lash measure. 1.7 liter I-4 SOHC. The thought is less "bang" on the valve stem from the cam.
I'm probably dead wrong, so bear with me!
My understanding is that the valve gets pulled into the combustion chamber on an OHC and a push rod motor when hot because of the expanding materials of the valve and the head/ valve seat. The upper end of the stem doesn't "grow" as much because it's up there near the relative cool cam on the OHC, so the OHC and push rod stems gets "pulled" away from the cam when hot. The lash "grow" on an OHC motor when hot because that's all there is. On a push rod motor there is a lot more material to "grow" (rocker arm, long push rod) so lash gets smaller when hot.
Back in the day I remember some Mopar guys checking solid lifter valves while the motors were running! Talk about a mess!
There are some variables however, so as usual this is a matter of opinion and might not be so because of all the variables of different materials, expansion rates, etc.
Those Civic guys also got those easy screw adjusters. So easy peasy valve adjustment compared to shims under bucket. They probably don't give a crap if the break something either. Like George they have 4 motors on hand?
For the hell of it I might see if it is closer or more gap when hot on the ST next go around, if I bother. My guess is it's not going to be very much different cold to hot. But that's totally a guess. I've not measured it.
Maybe NH Jim would be willing to give it a "hot feel" LOL and report back since he is in the middle of lash adj.??
I might be totally out in the weeds.
It would be just taking the valve cover off again and measuring again after the motor is hot.

 

[randy the x man]

Yea I was just about ready at 87k to invest 4 0r 5 undred at the dealer. I have never taken my plastic of nor do I want to. It seems there are many here who like me have never had the valves checked. Many have had the valves checked and found them to be ok. A few have found them slightly off. But not enough to truly worry about. If they actually did need adjusting the procedure seems very tough as you not only have to remove the cams but also the air box? The biggest deal for me is that I have never seen a post talking about a valve replacement?????

 

[nhdiesel]

Randy- a little secret- I'm trying the "flat rate method" (auto tech term to describe taking shortcuts to save time and/or labor). I was able to get all the shims and buckets out of the exhaust side without even unhooking a cam chain by carefully tilting the exhaust came up from the rear. I can't comment about how easy/difficult it will be to reassemble until my new shims get here. At most I expect to loosen the cam chain adjusters, seat the cams back down, and torque everything to spec. If that is the case, I should be able to do a valve shim job from start to finish, including the initial check, in under an hour. And this is the first time on an ST1300 for me. Next time should be quicker if I can keep the bike.

Jim

 

[hoowasat]

If they actually did need adjusting the procedure seems very tough as you not only have to remove the cams but also the air box?

The ST1300 gaps must be measured with the camshafts in place. The only reason one would need to remove the air-box is if any shims need to be replaced on the starboard (right hand) cylinder bank. That's because the chain tensioner for the starboard side is under the air-box, between the cylinder banks, whereas the port side tensioner is very easy to access. Thankfully for me, both of the shims I needed to replace were on the port side.

 

[DaveST]

Randy- a little secret- I'm trying the "flat rate method" (auto tech term to describe taking shortcuts to save time and/or labor). I was able to get all the shims and buckets out of the exhaust side without even unhooking a cam chain by carefully tilting the exhaust came up from the rear. I can't comment about how easy/difficult it will be to reassemble until my new shims get here. At most I expect to loosen the cam chain adjusters, seat the cams back down, and torque everything to spec. If that is the case, I should be able to do a valve shim job from start to finish, including the initial check, in under an hour. And this is the first time on an ST1300 for me. Next time should be quicker if I can keep the bike.

Jim

Jim,
You willing to check the lash when hot to humor me? If not I understand. Time is money.
Also. How true is the heel of the cam? I found it close as I could measure with mine.

 

[ak85lp]

Guilty here too. Bought my 2001 ST1100 with 24,000 miles and now I have 60,000 miles. I need to check them before spring hopefully.