I went to the BMW dealer yesterday.

[jfheath]

Just browsing. Well - just contemplating whether or not I wanted a new bike.

So I talked about and sat in 3 models

The K1600 GTL

Nice. It looks like the tourer that I would like. But it didn't fit.
For me with 33" inside leg, the seat was way too low. My knees were higher than my hips with my foot on the pegs. I had little to no movement left to take my foot off the peg when I came to a standstill. I can work a bit on that, but I'm beginning to have problems with my ST1300 Corbin Dual Canyon seat, which has to be in its lowest position. So much that I am refitting the brand new OEM saddle that came with it 9 years ago. Hmmph. This wouldn't suit at all, unless I can find a solution. So we moved on to the ....

K1600 GT.

The saddle is not as scooped out. It felt more like the ST, but I was told that this was already in its highest position. Nevertheless it would do for me.
So Lynne climbs on the back while I stand and observe. The panniers are much further forward and I was concerned that they woul get in her way. She is much shorter then me. The panniers were ok, but the seat is quite broad. It was impossible for her to reach the footpegs ! So forget about all if the fancy specs, handling and smooth engine. The bike doesn't fit either of us. So onward to the ....


R1250RT / RT LE

This was much better to sit on and felt comfortable for both of us. Salesman told m what it cam with, but the website disagrees. Most things he mentioned were extras. Thats Ok. He also said that if I was replacing the ST1300 the K1600 would be better. Id be changing gear much more often as the 1250 didn't have the same power. Something I knew was incorrect - it actually has more power than the ST1300. How usable it is through the range, I don't know. Since it has 6 gears, it probably needs them to keep it in the power band - is my usual take on cars that have 6 gears. By e time youve changed down into 4th, it needs to be in 3rd - is my experience. But that is my current bigoted, ill informed scrap heap of knowledge and I need to test ride it for a few of hours.

Now I've re-read @Mellow's superb account of his model here https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/21-bmw-r1250rt.178795/. That is really convincing. But I'm going to have loads of questions, especially from anyone who has one of these, a 6'4 rider with 33" inside leg, and a 5' pillion.

Of current concern is the service package where BMW vans come out with a van and fix your broken down bike - which I was told came as standard. I cannot find that on the website.
The heated seat - I cant find out if it is rider only or rider and pillion
All of the other extras - which are worth having and which are not

The wheels are smaller than the ST. That means they will wear out faster. I get only 5k out of T32 GTs
I like to have the screen adjusted so my eyes look over the top, but airflow is over my helmet. The standard ST screen won't do this I use a BikeQuip
Dealer reckons £3000 For my St1300A9. reg 2013, 60k. Very few dealer stamps. But detailed service history doesn't count. I can do better than that. It is worth much more.
He quoted a ridiculously high max weight for riders and luggage, but I think it still carries more load than the ST
Im worried about the boxer engine and fairing being damaged in a tip over - but tip over bars fitted or listed.
Fuel tank is smaller but consumption is less. What is the actual range/consumption

So I am back in the position of not trusting the sales people, who like most news reporting we hear, do not let ignorance get in the way of a good sals pitch.
Any further contributions from tall rider / short pillions that own one of these would be most welcome.

Thanks
John

 

[Mellow]

Hey John, I'm assuming these questions were for the RT:

The heated seat - I cant find out if it is rider only or rider and pillion

There's a button/switch on the left side of the seat for the passenger to turn low/off/high for the heated seat.

The wheels are smaller than the ST. That means they will wear out faster. I get only 5k out of T32 GTs

I have 8,200 miles on my PR6GT tires, they look like they might go to 9k easily. So, maybe a tad bit more than I would get on my previous STs but I obviously haven't run the same tires yet so take that for what it's worth but I would say it's a wash and you'll get similar if not a littler better than the ST.

I like to have the screen adjusted so my eyes look over the top, but airflow is over my helmet. The standard ST screen won't do this I use a BikeQuip

I went with a Werks Quiet Ride windshield, very similar to bikequip, it's great and you can just about ride the bike without ear plugs.

Fuel tank is smaller but consumption is less. What is the actual range/consumption

Range is closer than I thought. On the ST 250 miles was my expected range before stopping for gas and almost always got that. On the RT you get a low-fuel warning... I initially thought this was when you were in the reserve 1 gallon range BUT it's a count down TO the reserve level and it's usually around the 40+ mile range when it does that. So, I've been in the 220 range when I would get that warning but still have 1 gallon left so 250 would be easy. Obviously, on the ST, 250 is easy and you can usually push to over 300 depending on conditions.

I think the RT is more than adequate from the standpoint of range.

Side note: I no longer reset the trip meter. The RT has a miles to empty number that updates when you fill up. I'll simply ride until that starts the countdown-to-reserve number and that gives me enough warning to fine a gas station without worrying about running out... and a 220-240 range between gas stops is good for me... fill up and take off without having to reset the trip meter.


For tip over protection, I have the machineart head covers and ilium rear bars. Oddly enough, this bike feels so light and balanced that it's just doesn't feel as likely to tip over as previous bikes, even the Tracer would feel tall sometimes and I would almost tip it over at times when at an add stop/angle.

https://machineartmoto.com/
I'm still new to the bike, just into my first year and only 8000+ miles so it's far from a long-term review.

I have found many places reviewing/showing how to do some of the maintenance and it's not really all that different than most bikes. It did help to get a bluetooth OBDII module and get a motoscan app on my phone/tablet to reset service intervals and other misc diagnostics.

As for the K1600 - I didn't go that route because it's still a big bike and I wanted something that was still lighter than the ST/Wing options.

I never liked how the FJR felt sitting on it, in some ways it felt heavier than the ST. I like Yamaha offerings but that just never felt natural to me if that makes sense. The Super Ten I would do again in a second but I wanted to get back to a Sport Tourer.

 

[Upt' North]

Just browsing. Well - just contemplating whether or not I wanted a new bike.

So I talked about and sat in 3 models

The K1600 GTL

Nice. It looks like the tourer that I would like. But it didn't fit.
For me with 33" inside leg, the seat was way too low. My knees were higher than my hips with my foot on the pegs. I had little to no movement left to take my foot off the peg when I came to a standstill. I can work a bit on that, but I'm beginning to have problems with my ST1300 Corbin Dual Canyon seat, which has to be in its lowest position. So much that I am refitting the brand new OEM saddle that came with it 9 years ago. Hmmph. This wouldn't suit at all, unless I can find a solution. So we moved on to the ....

K1600 GT.

The saddle is not as scooped out. It felt more like the ST, but I was told that this was already in its highest position. Nevertheless it would do for me.
So Lynne climbs on the back while I stand and observe. The panniers are much further forward and I was concerned that they woul get in her way. She is much shorter then me. The panniers were ok, but the seat is quite broad. It was impossible for her to reach the footpegs ! So forget about all if the fancy specs, handling and smooth engine. The bike doesn't fit either of us. So onward to the ....


R1250RT / RT LE

This was much better to sit on and felt comfortable for both of us. Salesman told m what it cam with, but the website disagrees. Most things he mentioned were extras. Thats Ok. He also said that if I was replacing the ST1300 the K1600 would be better. Id be changing gear much more often as the 1250 didn't have the same power. Something I knew was incorrect - it actually has more power than the ST1300. How usable it is through the range, I don't know. Since it has 6 gears, it probably needs them to keep it in the power band - is my usual take on cars that have 6 gears. By e time youve changed down into 4th, it needs to be in 3rd - is my experience. But that is my current bigoted, ill informed scrap heap of knowledge and I need to test ride it for a few of hours.

Now I've re-read @Mellow's superb account of his model here https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/21-bmw-r1250rt.178795/. That is really convincing. But I'm going to have loads of questions, especially from anyone who has one of these, a 6'4 rider with 33" inside leg, and a 5' pillion.

Of current concern is the service package where BMW vans come out with a van and fix your broken down bike - which I was told came as standard. I cannot find that on the website.
The heated seat - I cant find out if it is rider only or rider and pillion
All of the other extras - which are worth having and which are not

The wheels are smaller than the ST. That means they will wear out faster. I get only 5k out of T32 GTs
I like to have the screen adjusted so my eyes look over the top, but airflow is over my helmet. The standard ST screen won't do this I use a BikeQuip
Dealer reckons £3000 For my St1300A9. reg 2013, 60k. Very few dealer stamps. But detailed service history doesn't count. I can do better than that. It is worth much more.
He quoted a ridiculously high max weight for riders and luggage, but I think it still carries more load than the ST
Im worried about the boxer engine and fairing being damaged in a tip over - but tip over bars fitted or listed.
Fuel tank is smaller but consumption is less. What is the actual range/consumption

So I am back in the position of not trusting the sales people, who like most news reporting we hear, do not let ignorance get in the way of a good sals pitch.
Any further contributions from tall rider / short pillions that own one of these would be most welcome.

Thanks
John

Salesmen, , you just wanna slap em don't ya.
3K for yours, at least Dick Turpin wore a mask.
About the gearbox John, don't think just because it's got 6 it needs 6. I know we can't compare my STrom to a R1250 but you really only need 4 of the 6 at most and at 40 in top you can forget about the levers on the left.
Good luck with your searching and if you can slap the next salesman from me I'd be grateful.
Upt'North.
Edit.....I did ride a 2014 New R12 before buying the ST but it was blummin horrible. Just didn't fit and rode like a two wheeled cement mixer. I haven't ridden a newer one. That salesman was actually OK, for a salesman.

 

[SMSW]

John, I know you trust folks here for their opinions, but how about checking out BMW forums for some answers to your questions? It is not all that hard to figure out what particular axe a respondent is grinding, and you should be able to get valuable info.

As an example, if you were to go to Tirerack.com and read the reviews of any given tire, you will find people who claim their mpg jumped 100% with the new tires, and others who say their mpg dropped by half. A quick reread of the reviews will tell you the first guy put those tires on a different car from his last, and the second guy tried to 'tune his car for more hp' right before mounting the new shoes. (These are made up examples, but similar to what you will find.) Between the extremes are honest reviews that convey good info.

 

[TPadden]

So I am back in the position of not trusting the sales people, who like most news reporting we hear, do not let ignorance get in the way of a good sals pitch.

John

Then why in God's name would you trust anyone here's opinion, admittedly some more ignorant than others, concerning what is right for you and your needs/ desires?

Read reviews and then take test rides, if a BMW dealer has any inventory, Ive never had ANY problem getting him to throw me a key (fob). I've also never bought a bike without a test ride and my wife's opinion is the only other one that counts... she ALWAYS says: if I want it get it as long as I don't already have that color.

Tom

 

[red one]

Yeah what Tom said. You need to do the research first then go for a long test ride and see if it will work for you.

 

[jfheath]

Many thanks for those replies. Wow @Mellow - good stuff.

@SMSW - almost exactly what you said. I trust peoples opinions on here, and most people replying know where I am coming from. So if anyone has a simialr scenario, they would be able to pinpoint exactly what I need to know - Which would be good, because as yet I don't know what I need to know ! Like Joe's comments about going lighter, and not needing to reset the trip at each fill up. I never thought about those.
But yes - I thought I had signed up for an account on a bmw forum this morning, but I got side tracked into building a new bike and signing up on that site so that it could be saved.

Then this afternoon I went out and washed Scotland off my bike. Hosepipe ban over hear, so it was a damp cloth with lots of rinsing out. Ended up with half a bucket of sand and grit. (I exaggerate. A bit). I answered a question about the rear brake wearing down faster a few days ago, and commented that the rear brake was on the left and it gets more liquid grinding paste thrown up at it, so the pads wear down faster than the front. I have a confirmation of that. Right hand side was quite clean. Left had side had grit all over the place - and tar spots. Right hand exhaust had one. Left hand side was like 101 dalmations.

Anyway, nice and sparkly clean now. I'd pay £5000 anytime, even given the mileage. New SMC, new suspension, running like a dream. Just put my new (original) seat back on. It looks smart. I'd be drawn to it straight away if I spotted it in a showroom. Hang on - I'm supposed to be thinking about a new BMW.....

@TPadden - Well we have both been around here for a long time - and you get to know some people as if you have been friends for years. I collect information - as @red one said. I'm not about to go and buy a bike tomorrow. If it happens, this will be in March / April sometime. In the meantime I find out things that I hadn't even thought of. I cannot say I much care for the idea of going back to chromes exhausts after having 15/16 years of never having had to change one. (2 bikes, 130,000 miles) My last 1100 had 2 silencer sets in 50,000 miles.

But I take on board the comments - all of them - from wherever. They all point to something good/bad/indifferent. It is something to find out about. If I buy this new bike, it will be my last bike ever. I don''t want to feel that I've been conned into something for a quick sale. I'd rather keep the bike I know and love, and spend the money on something else - like keeping it on the road !!

 

[TPadden]

But I take on board the comments - all of them - from wherever.

In that case, you have ignored the BMW that probably is most likely to fit. A tourer with under seat controls but forward floorboards to comfortably stretch out 33" inseam and low passenger seat so Lynne should have no problem reaching footpegs.

So onward to the .... K1600 B Bagger; you honestly should give it a test ride... unless you already have a black bike.

Tom

 

[jfheath]

You are right. I have (always) completely ignored them. My eyes see them, my brain files them away in the 'other' category, rather than motorcycle tourer. I have no idea why that would be.

But now you mention it .......

Some serious research required.

Actually, I had the same reaction to the CX1300 when it came out, but there was one on display at the Durham Bikewise event, and I sat on it, determined to hate it. And I couldn't. I was starting to like it. I'd forgotten about that.

That's a really interesting suggestion, Tom. I didn't see one in the showroom, but that doesn't mean there wasn't one there. As i said, my brain censors such images before I get to process them !

If the rear seat fits Lynne, the Pannier capacity is ok, and we would still need a topbox - can you have a topbox on a bagger ? - that definitely adds another bike to the quest. Lynne never sat on the GT simply because the seat was way too low for me.

Thanks for that @TPadden !

 

[TPadden]

There are 2 versions of the Bagger (like Goldwings) the B with no topbox, but I added a Givi plate and box, and the GA (Grand America) with incorporated topbox. You can see the Givi in my first picture and below as well as the GA. BMW has limited speeds due to handling differences of the GA to 100mph and the B is limited the same as the GTL I think at 138mph. A test ride would quickly answer the question of suitability for you. For my comfort those floorboards have been a real comfort game changer.

Tom

GA

My Givi

 

[Chris09]

I would like to see a torque / rpm / speed chart [through the gears] on each of them; including what you already have, especially if I'm gonna be two up. it's a lot easier to manage five gears vs six. Just my view, but mid range grunt / reduced shifting makes two up a lot nicer.

 

[Gerhard]

I would like to see a torque / rpm / speed chart [through the gears] on each of them; including what you already have, especially if I'm gonna be two up. it's a lot easier to manage five gears vs six. Just my view, but mid range grunt / reduced shifting makes two up a lot nicer.

I have a 10 year old RT, the bike really likes to be ridden around 4,000 rpm so the only time I get use 6th is if I am doing 120 km/h or more. From what I have been told on the newer bikes 6th gear is also an Autobahn gear.

 

[dduelin]

I have a 10 year old RT, the bike really likes to be ridden around 4,000 rpm so the only time I get use 6th is if I am doing 120 km/h or more. From what I have been told on the newer bikes 6th gear is also an Autobahn gear.

In 2005 to 2013 RT gearboxes IIRC both 5th and 6th gears are overdrive ratios. IDK about wetheads and shiftcams. On flat terrain I’m in 6th by 65 mph. On my ST I was often trying to shift to an imaginary 6th gear. Not the case with my 2007.

 

[STumped]

On my ST I was often trying to shift to an imaginary 6th gear. Not the case with my 2007.

+1 to that! I always felt that the ST1300 needed a sixth gear that would drop the the RPM by about 500-1000. The rest of the gears (1 through 5) have good ratios, it just needs a taller 6th gear. The K1600GT has just that. 80mph on the ST (true, not indicated) is around 5k and on the K16 it's around 4K (going from memory so those are just estimates).

BTW, I LOVE the engine on the K16! Now I just have to work out the ergonomics (seat is terrible and it needs a better windshield).

 

[oude geit]

I really like the looks of beemers, but after experiencing their cars. NFW I'd own one. I want an 800cc, shaft drive, 6 speed, half st.

 

[V4 Rider]

2016 ST1300 for sale with 6,500 miles.

Forget the dark side, ride without the worry of breakdowns or warranty claims.

You know it is the best option.

 

[Firstpeke]

I just traded in a '69 plate 1250RT LE for an NT1100D (DCT)..... mainly because I had put 20,000 miles on it in just around 13 months of riding and the RT was about to run out of warranty.

Personally I didn't want to continue running up the miles without the fall back of a warranty, BMW would sell me an insurance based warranty but that was going to cost about £40 per month.

I traded it in at the start of August and the only thing I heard from my dealer was that my MOT was due, nothing about the warranty expiring.....

The depreciation was also scary, if I put another 15-20K on it the trade in would have been minimal at only 4 years old next year.

So back on a Honda.

Don't get me wrong, the RT is a great bike, power delivery is, for a boxer twin, stunning if you wind the tap open.... keep it under 4000 revs and it could be frugal too.

I have had 64mpg on a tour of the highlands and when in Norway was averaging between 68-74mpg....... on a 1250 with 136 bhp available....

I have a Russel Day long which of course did not go away with the bike, this transformed the RT to a proper high mileage machine....

The bike was 18 months old when I got it with 1800 miles, it had a top box with brake light, Heed crash bars front and rear, a quickshifter and every other option that was available when it was bought new.... all the boxes had been ticked..... keyless ride, ESA Suspension, and so on....
I miss it but I don't miss the weight! It is a big bike, in theory it is lighter than it looks, but in practice it is still 279kg plus.....

My new NT1100 is lighter and more involving to ride, okay it doesn't have shaft drive or an electric windscreen, but it suits me.

My second big ride was an IBA Full Monty, the first was riding it back home from Bournemouth where I bought it, the third was to Kranska Gora in Slovenia on an IBA Ride to Eat.... I averaged 62mpg for the 2600+ miles.....

So at four weeks old it had 5600+ miles on it!

The RT would have been more comfortable, but it would now need another big service at just under £400...... I have another 2000 miles in hand with the NT.

I still miss my last ST1100....

 

[NVDucati]

Exciting times for you. Buying your last new motorcycle.
I just did a quick search for BMW motorcycle rental agencies in the UK. There seems to be a lot of them.
I'd suggest that once you start to dial into a couple of choices ... rent one for a weekend. Worst case, you've had a nice outing with the Mrs.

 

[Upt' North]

I just traded in a '69 plate 1250RT LE for an NT1100D (DCT)..... mainly because I had put 20,000 miles on it in just around 13 months of riding and the RT was about to run out of warranty.

Personally I didn't want to continue running up the miles without the fall back of a warranty, BMW would sell me an insurance based warranty but that was going to cost about £40 per month.

I traded it in at the start of August and the only thing I heard from my dealer was that my MOT was due, nothing about the warranty expiring.....

The depreciation was also scary, if I put another 15-20K on it the trade in would have been minimal at only 4 years old next year.

So back on a Honda.

Don't get me wrong, the RT is a great bike, power delivery is, for a boxer twin, stunning if you wind the tap open.... keep it under 4000 revs and it could be frugal too.

I have had 64mpg on a tour of the highlands and when in Norway was averaging between 68-74mpg....... on a 1250 with 136 bhp available....

I have a Russel Day long which of course did not go away with the bike, this transformed the RT to a proper high mileage machine....

The bike was 18 months old when I got it with 1800 miles, it had a top box with brake light, Heed crash bars front and rear, a quickshifter and every other option that was available when it was bought new.... all the boxes had been ticked..... keyless ride, ESA Suspension, and so on....
I miss it but I don't miss the weight! It is a big bike, in theory it is lighter than it looks, but in practice it is still 279kg plus.....

My new NT1100 is lighter and more involving to ride, okay it doesn't have shaft drive or an electric windscreen, but it suits me.

My second big ride was an IBA Full Monty, the first was riding it back home from Bournemouth where I bought it, the third was to Kranska Gora in Slovenia on an IBA Ride to Eat.... I averaged 62mpg for the 2600+ miles.....

So at four weeks old it had 5600+ miles on it!

The RT would have been more comfortable, but it would now need another big service at just under £400...... I have another 2000 miles in hand with the NT.

I still miss my last ST1100....

Of course you miss your 11, we all do .
But I digress, just a note on the BMW warranties. I have no experience of this on motorsiccles but a similar priced product is available for their cars. At 8 years old my Beemer is still covered and I have found it very easy to claim. They offer different grades of cover for their cars but I had to search it out for myself. I spose BMW would be happier if you just bought a new product.
Upt'North.

 

[Bulitt]

I just checked a few days ago and 4 year extended BMW warranty for my 2019 1250RT is $1,300 which covers everything including electronics. Less than I expected it to be. My warranty expires in Nov, so I have a decision to make……