New Traffic Laws coming in England

[Fawlty]

In Switzerland the pedestrains have right of way on the roads. Full stop. (Which oddly enough is what you have to do if you are not being observant).

In Spain they have sets of 'redundant' traffic lights. No junction. Just lights. If you are speeding a little way before them, they turn to red and hold you there - to make it faster to go through the town at the correct speed than it is to break the limit.

Yes, there used to be a lot of these set for 50kmh, but they are being phased out now and replaced by the dreaded speed bump, some of which are extremely high. I often wonder about emergency vehicles traversing some of these speed bumps, particularly ambulances with trauma victims aboard. It's bone jarring enough for an able bodied person, let alone someone en route to hospital with a broken back.

 

[LaurieC]

The Give Way at Junctions to Pedestrians crossing at a turn used to be Rule 14 . It used to be rule 14 but they may have moved the numbers . I worked with a chap that drove lorries (trucks) for years and he had never heard of that rule . Two US visitors (man and wife ) asked me once "Is your Lorry the same as our Truck?" The husband was running a business using "Trucks ". The conversation came about when I showed four people how to get the Ford Transit up the driveway slope when only three wheels were touching . They kept pushing from behind instead sideways to get both back wheels on the ground . The visitors were watching from the window . So they don`t think we`re all daft .

Ha ! MrsC says " my Laurie is nothing like the same as a truck " I don't know if she is being kind or cruel !!
Laurie

 

[Upt' North]

In Switzerland the pedestrains have right of way on the roads. Full stop. (Which oddly enough is what you have to do if you are not being observant).

In Spain they have sets of 'redundant' traffic lights. No junction. Just lights. If you are speeding a little way before them, they turn to red and hold you there - to make it faster to go through the town at the correct speed than it is to break the limit.

As a cyclist, I am horrified by the way that a signifcant number of the cycling contingent behave on the roads. I hope that this doesn't mean that they can do exactly as they want at road junctions. But they probably will. "You should have anticipated that they would do something stupid sir." It applies to kids on the pavement, why not cyclists.

I have cycled nearly all of my life and always felt confident in traffic, but I have recently become quite frightened of going out on the roads on a push bike. There's a lot of aggressive behaviour towards cyclists out there. So at the moment I am a covid-free garage 'Zwift' cyclist. Everyone has right of way everywhere in Zwift world. If another cyclist gets in the way you just ride through them. I worried that that may become the norm when they all return from their garages onto the open roads !

The rule about roundabouts is an odd one to justify, I think. I follow the correct motor vehicle line if turning right at a roundabout. I'm in left-hand-side-of-the-road UK, so we go round that is 3/4 of the way round, clockwise) . Signal early, keep right arm out, move out, occupy the centre of my right hand lane until I know the car coming from behind has slowed and I know has seen me, and then follow the centre lane round until I need to get across to the outside, and put left arm out in good time, and look behind at the driver behind to make sure he is not going to pass on my left. Eye contact with the traffic approaching the roundabout on my left. (It is amazing what a difference the eye contact stare makes as to whether or not they ignore you - it works on the motorbike too).

The new rule allows them to go around the outside of the roundabout, which is a very vulnerable position - especially on a two lane roundabout. If you stay on the outside lane on approach, you then have to worry about the vehicles taking an earlier exit from the outside / right hand lane who will drive straight into your right hand side.
But for a vehicle wanting to enter a roundabout as you are about to go across the front of them, they simply cannot see you. They look and will pull out. From their perspective there is nothing there, because you are hidden behind the wide quarter-light strut in that position. And as you continue forward and they continue forward, you remain hidden by the widscreen post - until you are almost on their bonnet.

If I ever dare get back on the road again, I will not be following that suggestion.

If I ever dare get back on the road again I'm going to have to learn how to corner, 'cos at present I can do the downhill alpine pass hairpins at 50mph without leaning over ! It felt really weird the first few days that I did it.

If you do venture back out Mr.Heath you are a braver man than I.
On the lanes around here there's no way I'd go out without an engine between my legs.
Wooler is actually a bit of a cycling hub with events through the year, but again, not for me.
Go careful fella, especially on those Alpine passes. Although the last time I was in the Dolomites there were more cycles than motorbikes.
Upt'North.

 

[Flexit]

Funny thing about it is that that particular rule has always been there in the highway code.

The particular rule re pedestrians at junctions is changing from

Rule 170
At a junction.

• watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way

to

You must give way if they are waiting to cross or are already crossing.

Subtle, but significant difference. And there seem to be a few more like it in the changes. I can foresee a few rear end bumps when cars stop with no one actually crossing the road and the drivers behind are assuming the road is clear in front. To Assume = to make an ASS out of U and ME

 

[ad.hom]

Wasn't it someat like, give way to pedestrians already crossing the road.

Close, but the new rule adds, as @Flexit says, we now should wait (blocking a potentially more major road) if it looks like the ped is about to step into the road.

It's only guidance hahah

This, exactly this. Most folks haven't spotted that it all says "should/should not" - which is guidance. If they had said "must" then it's a requirement.

You must give way if they are waiting to cross or are already crossing.

Almost... the change is published here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1037306/table-of-change-to-the-highway-code.pdf

Relevant section:

Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’. In addition, the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which creates the offence. See an explanation of the abbreviations. Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see The road user and the law) to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wording such as ‘should/should not’ or ‘do/do not’.

Rule H2, per that document, emphasis added is mine:

At a junction you should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning. You MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing, and to pedestrians and cyclists on a parallel crossing (see Rule 195). Pedestrians have priority when on a zebra crossing, on a parallel crossing or at light controlled crossings when they have a green signal. You should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross a zebra crossing, and to pedestrians and cyclists waiting to cross a parallel crossing. Horse riders should also give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing, and to pedestrians and cyclists on a parallel crossing. Cyclists should give way to pedestrians on shared use cycle tracks and to horse riders on bridleways. Only pedestrians may use the pavement. Pedestrians include wheelchair and mobility scooter users. Pedestrians may use any part of the road and use cycle tracks as well as the pavement, unless there are signs prohibiting pedestrians.

Rule H3, per that document, emphasis added is mine:

You should not cut across cyclists, horse riders or horse drawn vehicles going ahead when you are turning into or out of a junction or changing direction or lane, just as you would not turn across the path of another motor vehicle. This applies whether they are using a cycle lane, a cycle track, or riding ahead on the road and you should give way to them. Do not turn at a junction if to do so would cause the cyclist, horse rider or horse drawn vehicle going straight ahead to stop or swerve. You should stop and wait for a safe gap in the flow of cyclists if necessary.

Yes folks, I'm here to ruin the party. The change is really nothing more than "use some common sense, failing to use common sense is sadly not a criminal offence, but this is what your legal team will need to supply a defence to, if you have to answer to anything in court."

 

[mjc506]

^^^ this. For better or worse... That said, the Police could feasibly do you for dangerous driving/due care offences if you don't drive in accordance with the advice, although they'd have to be sufficiently motivated by other circumstances I'm sure!

I also don't like the 'travel around the outside of a roundabout on a bicycle' bit... very likely to result in getting flattened by a car/bus/lorry taking 'their' exit. My understanding (although I've never got them to confirm) if that they're trying to copy the Dutch roundabouts, without actually changing anything on the ground... nothing like half-arsed measures to make things worse...

 

[jfheath]

Go careful fella, especially on those Alpine passes. Although the last time I was in the Dolomites there were more cycles than motorbikes.
Upt'North.

Oh, I do. I got spooked when a keen cyclist neighbour was killed on his bike by a tractor. Doing Alpine passes is restricted to garage cycling only with the TV screen in front of me and my avatar kicking up the dust, while I'm sitting on the saddle with no hand on the bars choosing the next music track. Apart from that stuff, the cycling feeling is very realistic the animation says you're going up hill, the pedalling gets correspondingly harder to suit the gradient! And you can overtake (or be overtaken by) all of the other garage cyclists in the world. I'd never do the alpine passes on the real road. Far too much effort going uphill, far too much strain on the arms and hands holding the brakes downhill. Although I have to say, the hills round here are often much steeper than some of the alpine passes. They just don't drag on for so long. But the tour de France came through here a few years back - the first and second days. I think the professionals thought that Yorkshire would be a doddle with the the really high summits barely touching 2000ft. But it was relentless uphill, downhill, uphill, downhill. They looked more shattered at the end of it than I have ever seen them at the end of a day.

Wooler ? I spent a week up there once in my youth staying in the youth hostel. Geography A level field studies. Including a climb up Cheviot. It was quite black and peaty up there in 1971. It was a quagmire of oozing black mud in 1976. I was looking at street view last night and discovered that some footpaths are now plotted and photographed - just like most of the UK roads, with the ability to step forwards and backwards and get a 360 panoramic view. Much of the England / Scotland border fence from Byrness to the top of Cheviot keeps the Pennine Way walkers in England for as long as possible and that is all on street view now. I was surprised to see the summit in such good shape peat hags, yes. But a surprising amount of vegetation on top. Just like a peat moor should be. It was really good to see.

Not much to do with motorbikes in this post. Lets see - ah - I couldn't get on the garage bike today cos the fairing is off and hanging from the joists above the cycle. I'm doing all of the liquids a few drops at a time. Today was the radiator coolant filled, warmed up, revved and bled and the old oil (2yrs, 6000 miles - lean riding in covid years) drained. Got to take the oil filter off tomorrow and try to remember to investigate the access to the gear lever linkage while it is off. Preferably after it has stopped dripping. Oil up the sleeve is not the best feeling in the world.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I often wonder about emergency vehicles traversing some of these speed bumps, .....

I remember a story in the news from a few years back about just that in Toronto. Municipalities were putting so many speed bumps in that the emergency services filed official complaints. They said that there were so many speed bumps that it was slowing down their response time unacceptably.

...... particularly ambulances with trauma victims aboard. It's bone jarring enough for an able bodied person, let alone someone en route to hospital with a broken back.

Correct you are. My one and only ride in an ambulance was for injuries that included nine broken ribs. I can confirm that every little bump in the road that normally goes unnoticed becomes an excruciating experience. Speed bumps, potholes, it all hurts the same.

 

[Upt' North]

Oh, I do. I got spooked when a keen cyclist neighbour was killed on his bike by a tractor. Doing Alpine passes is restricted to garage cycling only with the TV screen in front of me and my avatar kicking up the dust, while I'm sitting on the saddle with no hand on the bars choosing the next music track. Apart from that stuff, the cycling feeling is very realistic the animation says you're going up hill, the pedalling gets correspondingly harder to suit the gradient! And you can overtake (or be overtaken by) all of the other garage cyclists in the world. I'd never do the alpine passes on the real road. Far too much effort going uphill, far too much strain on the arms and hands holding the brakes downhill. Although I have to say, the hills round here are often much steeper than some of the alpine passes. They just don't drag on for so long. But the tour de France came through here a few years back - the first and second days. I think the professionals thought that Yorkshire would be a doddle with the the really high summits barely touching 2000ft. But it was relentless uphill, downhill, uphill, downhill. They looked more shattered at the end of it than I have ever seen them at the end of a day.

Wooler ? I spent a week up there once in my youth staying in the youth hostel. Geography A level field studies. Including a climb up Cheviot. It was quite black and peaty up there in 1971. It was a quagmire of oozing black mud in 1976. I was looking at street view last night and discovered that some footpaths are now plotted and photographed - just like most of the UK roads, with the ability to step forwards and backwards and get a 360 panoramic view. Much of the England / Scotland border fence from Byrness to the top of Cheviot keeps the Pennine Way walkers in England for as long as possible and that is all on street view now. I was surprised to see the summit in such good shape peat hags, yes. But a surprising amount of vegetation on top. Just like a peat moor should be. It was really good to see.

Not much to do with motorbikes in this post. Lets see - ah - I couldn't get on the garage bike today cos the fairing is off and hanging from the joists above the cycle. I'm doing all of the liquids a few drops at a time. Today was the radiator coolant filled, warmed up, revved and bled and the old oil (2yrs, 6000 miles - lean riding in covid years) drained. Got to take the oil filter off tomorrow and try to remember to investigate the access to the gear lever linkage while it is off. Preferably after it has stopped dripping. Oil up the sleeve is not the best feeling in the world.

John, I liked your views on Wooler and The Cheviot/Cheviots are in pretty good shape. We've only been up The Cheviot once (because it's there, a bit like The Stelvio) and that was in the summer about 5 years ago. It was indeed well kept and no peaty bogs caused problems. I was surprised how many bits of aluminium were lying around, then I realised they were the remnants of WW2 aircraft incidents. The area in general is far busier with tourists but the paths around and over the hills are still beautifully peaceful. Nothing like the mayhem of the Peak District or the Lake District.
I think the YHA now has shepherd hut accommodation at the same spot.
Upt'North.

 

[ST1100Y]

In Switzerland the pedestrains have right of way on the roads...

Such only boosts the ignorance of folks/swombies to provocatively stagger out on into the lane without even an attempt of looking...

 

[ST1100Y]

You must give way if they are waiting to cross or are already crossing.

Should read: at a marked pedestrian X-ing ...

What happened to the good old: look before you cross the street!... geee...

 

[Yohan]

I was knocked of my pushbike in Tottenham in London by a taxi. I was just riding in a straight line and suddenly found myself on the road. The pedal was bent . No injuries , but the driver got out and I said something .I can`t remember what . Not being in the right state to have an argument . He said " D`you wanna make something out of it ? "After that I have never been very keen on Tottenham . Bad tempered git .

 

[sherob]

To be fair, if drivers used their common sense, we'd need far fewer signs/lines/rules/etc too

If we had pedestrians with a brain that would also look both ways before jumping in front of moving cars that would help!

I have to deal with what I would call "entitled jaywalkers" here in CO. They'll just walk out in traffic, no crosswalks, no problem... "the drivers have to give me right of way!". Just crazy... I remember when we were taught to look both ways before crossing streets at lights/crosswalks! I guess that common sense left with them having their eyes glued to their (not so)smartphones!

Just crazy!

 

[ReSTored]

In the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) there is a "Vision Zero" plan in effect in many municipalities to reduce or eliminate (i.e. Zero........) pedestrian deaths. Based on stats the chance of surviving a collision with a motor vehicle traveling at 50 km/h is less than 20%; whereas, survival increases to 50% at 40–45 km/h and 90% at 30 km/h.

As a result of this my city is reducing speed limits on side streets from 50 km/h to 40 km/h and school zones from 40 km/h to 30 km/h. Many school zones will have speed camera installed as an enforcement tool.

My observation is that in areas with no enforcement there has been little to no change in driver speed. Where speed cameras have been installed there is usually a grace period of a few weeks or a month where the plate owner receives a notice in the mail as to their speed, but no fine is payable. There are vehicles that received 10 - 15 notices over the grace period for speeds as high at 70 - 80 km/h in a 30 km/h. Once the fines started, there are still a number of drivers that didn't get the message but after a dozen fines they changed their behavior. Don't pay your fine and your plate won't be renewed.

So, the program works, but 30 km/h is brutally slow, I've actually changed my route to avoid school zones as they are a PITA. It will probably take a year or so before we see reduced death and injury stats.

 

[LaurieC]

In the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) there is a "Vision Zero" plan in effect in many municipalities to reduce or eliminate (i.e. Zero........) pedestrian deaths. Based on stats the chance of surviving a collision with a motor vehicle traveling at 50 km/h is less than 20%; whereas, survival increases to 50% at 40–45 km/h and 90% at 30 km/h.

As a result of this my city is reducing speed limits on side streets from 50 km/h to 40 km/h and school zones from 40 km/h to 30 km/h. Many school zones will have speed camera installed as an enforcement tool.

My observation is that in areas with no enforcement there has been little to no change in driver speed. Where speed cameras have been installed there is usually a grace period of a few weeks or a month where the plate owner receives a notice in the mail as to their speed, but no fine is payable. There are vehicles that received 10 - 15 notices over the grace period for speeds as high at 70 - 80 km/h in a 30 km/h. Once the fines started, there are still a number of drivers that didn't get the message but after a dozen fines they changed their behavior. Don't pay your fine and your plate won't be renewed.

So, the program works, but 30 km/h is brutally slow, I've actually changed my route to avoid school zones as they are a PITA. It will probably take a year or so before we see reduced death and injury stats.

@ReSTored
Many of our small towns/villages [ France] are adopting the 30km/h speed limits . It is brutally slow as you say and, in my opinion, is more dangerous than the previous limit of 50km/h.
Why? Because it is so slow that drivers have time to window shop . Literally rolling along looking in the shop windows rather than the road in front. I think that pedestrian injuries [maybe not deaths] will increase as there seems to be a total lack of concentration or the need for it by all parties concerned.

 

[Chris09]

Im kind of for the thing, seems drastic ( why not 40 k? ) 50 to 30 though. Not easy where you cant get on a freeway but traffic moves too fast here in residetial areas, people / children step out between parked cars, plus it motivates drivers to get over to a road with a higher speed limit.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

@ReSTored
Many of our small towns/villages [ France] are adopting the 30km/h speed limits . It is brutally slow as you say and, in my opinion, is more dangerous than the previous limit of 50km/h.
Why? Because it is so slow that drivers have time to window shop . Literally rolling along looking in the shop windows rather than the road in front. I think that pedestrian injuries [maybe not deaths] will increase as there seems to be a total lack of concentration or the need for it by all parties concerned.

I agree completely. The entire region where I live went to 30 Km/h (18 Mp/h) from 40 a few years ago. It is stupid! 40 was acceptable. 30 is to slow, so slow that very little attention is needed to operate the car, and very little attention is what drivers devote to it. I have long been of the opinion that this low of a speed is more dangerous. It is so slow that your vehicle never up shifts so it revs higher, burns more fuel and pollutes more. So slow that the police don't even go that low speed.

 

[Upt' North]

@ReSTored
Many of our small towns/villages [ France] are adopting the 30km/h speed limits . It is brutally slow as you say and, in my opinion, is more dangerous than the previous limit of 50km/h.
Why? Because it is so slow that drivers have time to window shop . Literally rolling along looking in the shop windows rather than the road in front. I think that pedestrian injuries [maybe not deaths] will increase as there seems to be a total lack of concentration or the need for it by all parties concerned.

You probably already know Lozzer, but Scotland has adopted 20 mph limits in many towns and villages. I think it started in early 2021. It's a stupid limit where it is used, I'm all for it outside local shops, schools, bus stops etc. but blanket 20's are a real PITA. Your speed limits especially on the D roads were already bad enough.
Upt'North.

 

[ad.hom]

You probably already know Lozzer, but Scotland has adopted 20 mph limits in many towns and villages. I think it started in early 2021. It's a stupid limit where it is used, I'm all for it outside local shops, schools, bus stops etc. but blanket 20's are a real PITA. Your speed limits especially on the D roads were already bad enough.
Upt'North.

True story - I was on a Speed Awareness course today ( ) and the topic of 20mph limits was brought up.

According to the chap standing at the front with a laser pointer, they're being introduced to "incentivise people to cycle / walk, which ultimately makes everyone healthier and looks after the planet because people won't be driving"

PS. They really don't like it when you start off one of those courses with a "I'm aware I was speeding, I know why I was speeding, does that mean we're done here?" (it used to be a 50mph limit, I saw the camera, checked the car sat nav AND Google Maps, both said it was a 50, so I went through it at 50. Only it was a 40 and I'd missed the limit change sign, so it zapped me at 46. I went back the next day in daylight to check how the hell I'd managed to miss the signs.).

 

[mjc506]

46 is a bit harsh...

Yeah, that seems to be the main incentive excuse in Wales at least. They're backpedalling on the 'reduces emissions' rubbish... And I think they're starting to realise that they'd be better off not relying on 'reduces injuries to pedestrians' either But essentially it's all because some politician decided that it'd be a good idea..