NHSTA opening investigation into BMW final drive failures

[dduelin]

I read today that as a result of owners writing letters to officials at NHSTA and possibly a WA congressman it was announced 1/20/2012 that the agency is officially looking into final drive failures on certain BMW K1200LT models. A similar design is used on other models with the Paralever rear suspension so the investigation may be widened into these other models when more owners submit documentation on the NHSTA website. Owners of bikes with problems or past owners may want to contact the agency.

 

[Des]

It's about time something happened about BMW's final drives.

 

[BakerBoy]

To read about the incidents recorded, go here http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/ and search for ODI number 10439549

 

[pepollock]

BMW should have stepped-up on this issue years ago. Their customer relations (the company, not their dealers) generally stink and they pretty much fixed bikes while under warranty and then left owners to twist in the wind after it. BMW never, to my knowledge, ever admitted there was anything wrong, but made a few incremental changes over the years which seemed to reduce the number of failures on later bikes. It's hard to know if late-models, like 2010 and 2011, will have the failure since they haven't been around long enough. The K1200LT seems to have faired the worst, not surprising since it is the heaviest, but the pain was shared across the line-up (models with Paralever)

In a wonderful bit of engineering, das engineers started with a no-maintenance (never change the final drive oil so there's no drain plug) design, then changed to a scheduled change, and when that still experienced seal failures and oil leaks they lowered the oil level spec.

ST1300 owners are permitted to feel smug and even snicker a little. And BTW, I ride an R1200RT.

pete

 

[wjbertrand]

I went to a local BMW dealer open house one time. I'd say 95% of the other bikes that showed up were all BMWs. The dealer was showing off all the new models but I noticed something strange in the way the BMW aficionados reacted. I expected them to be very excited and positive about the new models, they were BMW fans after all right? Instead they were actually pretty critical, even cynical sometimes. "Oh they designed it that way so you have to come to the dealer and pay big bucks", or "that'll break off and cost me $200 before I even get home." At the same time they were almost fatalistic, as though there was nothing they could do about any of it and were completely resigned to accepting these things whether they liked them or not. It was like they felt they had no other choice. In chatting with a couple of them and listening to their belly aching, I mentioned how my ST1300 was approaching 100K and had been relatively trouble free. They politely listened to me and then picked up their conversations right where they left off. It was as though my comments did not even register. I also noticed that my ST parked there was almost completely invisible to them - not one comment or question. Strange day.

 

[dmulk]

Bertrand,

You see....this is where my sick sense of humor combined with a little planning would have provided a bit of entertainment. I would have gone to this event with the sole intention of convincing those involved that the ST1300 I was riding was a BMW pre-production, "new model" test bike.

Cover everything up that says Honda. Tell people it's been in test for the last year....etc. lol.

<D>

 

[DaveST]

So... did the marketplace do anything to force BMW to address this issue? Or did they not have to worry because people kept right on buying new bikes and stocking up on final drives? Did the brand suffer?

BMW dealer owner was about to throw you out of Fairport because of your car tire.
Notice the traveler took a FD with him on trips??
But then he learned you were a lowly Honda owner. :
Probably felt sorry for you.

 

[Bones]

Not surprisingly the topic is all over the BMW blogosphere. Here's one comment from ADV that made me smile:

"Don't whine to the ******* government. Just buy a Honda like I did."

 

[dduelin]

I have seen BMW do more than required for several owners in my circle. One fellow with a 2005 R1200RT had a driveshaft failure at 70,000 miles. I think that 2005 was the last year of the 3 year unlimited mileage warranty. The shaft actually broke in two inside the Paralever housing at 70 mph on an interstate. With the rear wheel locked up he slid into the median and fell in the grass, unhurt. BMW gave him top dollar on a trade on a 2010 R1200RT despite the damage to the bike. A 2007 R1200RT owner had the FD start leaking oil as a result of a lunched bearing. Although the bike was 2000 miles out of warranty BMW replaced the FD in an act of goodwill. The other guy had a 2007 (??) R1200RT with a number of issues from day one. He had to get an attorney but BMW ended up buying the bike back as a lemon at full price and he bought another RT. I know another guy that had 5, count them, 5 FD failures on his 2005 R1200GS. When the last one was repaired at 175,000 miles and 3 years he bought a new GS as he had no more warranty. He was sold on how BMW took care of him although he had an exceptional number of failures.

 

[Geoff]

If you don't think complaints to NHTSA don't count, think again. Because of about 110 people writing and complaining about 2008 4 cylinder accords having flickering headlights honda was forced to buy my accord back under the lemon laws. Honda to this day though has never admitted a bad design. For those of you that don't follow the news closely the lady in California won her case againt honda over hybrid mileage.

The point of the post is letter writing and complaining does have a cumulative effect.

 

[sherob]

If you don't think complaints to NHTSA don't count, think again. Because of about 110 people writing and complaining about 2008 4 cylinder accords having flickering headlights honda was forced to buy my accord back under the lemon laws. Honda to this day though has never admitted a bad design. For those of you that don't follow the news closely the lady in California won her case againt honda over hybrid mileage.

The point of the post is letter writing and complaining does have a cumulative effect.

Small Claims case, which is under appeal by Honda... has nothing to do with NHTSA or letter writing.

 

[Bones]

Small Claims case, which is under appeal by Honda... has nothing to do with NHTSA or letter writing.

And an interesting way of addressing this hybrid case. The plaintiff was awarded nearly $10,000. (Yes, under appeal now.) If she followed the class action route, she'd be in line for a couple hundred dollars if the case is resolved in favor of the claimants (after the lawyers take their cut).

 

[Geoff]

Small Claims case, which is under appeal by Honda... has nothing to do with NHTSA or letter writing.

I believe she used NHTSA complaint numbers as part of her case.

 

[sherob]

Surprise... they do regulate CAFE, not EPA.

 

[sherob]

And an interesting way of addressing this hybrid case. The plaintiff was awarded nearly $10,000. (Yes, under appeal now.) If she followed the class action route, she'd be in line for a couple hundred dollars if the case is resolved in favor of the claimants (after the lawyers take their cut).

Now offering her documentation for free... her court assistance for $50 (is/was an attorney).

 

[Judge]

I certainly think an investigation is warranted. FD failures have been polled on the BMW forums abd have trended at around 5% of forum members. On percentage, not a huge number, but in real nembers suggestive of a problem.

However, how many were DIY maintenance jobs....bike was so filthy you could not notice a weaping seal...,etc. No question, some of the FD failures were as a result of these conditions or others.

Now, I'm on BMW # 3...no FD issues, and none to my friends high mileage 05 LT or GS, so go figure...it does not happen to every roundel adorn bike as some will imply. Moreover, as I research the C14, what do I see?...FD failures in small percentages.

Short of scrapping the FD all together, BMW did make changes to address the FD over the years, and FD failures have been reduced progresively.

My take on the FD is that yes, clearly the unit had some issues that should not happen even after you filter the data. To say BMW has not done enough, may be a fair statement, to say they have done nothing is not. To suggest FD failures are a given if you own a BMW is also a load of BS, but some seem to delight in the theory.

Check your seal often, let the BMW shop do the maintenance, keep a warranty on the bike, and ride the silly thing and don't let it bother you is my suggestion. Funny how we never mention the majority of happy owners who have not blown up an FD. A little perspective....just saying.

 

[pepollock]

I'm a Happy BMW owner (so far)...

pete

 

[wjbertrand]

Check your seal often, let the BMW shop do the maintenance, keep a warranty on the bike, and ride the silly thing and don't let it bother you is my suggestion.

None of which is required on an Honda - just saying!

 

[dduelin]

I certainly think an investigation is warranted. FD failures have been polled on the BMW forums abd have trended at around 5% of forum members. On percentage, not a huge number, but in real nembers suggestive of a problem.

However, how many were DIY maintenance jobs....bike was so filthy you could not notice a weaping seal...,etc. No question, some of the FD failures were as a result of these conditions or others.

Now, I'm on BMW # 3...no FD issues, and none to my friends high mileage 05 LT or GS, so go figure...it does not happen to every roundel adorn bike as some will imply. Moreover, as I research the C14, what do I see?...FD failures in small percentages.

Short of scrapping the FD all together, BMW did make changes to address the FD over the years, and FD failures have been reduced progresively.

My take on the FD is that yes, clearly the unit had some issues that should not happen even after you filter the data. To say BMW has not done enough, may be a fair statement, to say they have done nothing is not. To suggest FD failures are a given if you own a BMW is also a load of BS, but some seem to delight in the theory.

Check your seal often, let the BMW shop do the maintenance, keep a warranty on the bike, and ride the silly thing and don't let it bother you is my suggestion. Funny how we never mention the majority of happy owners who have not blown up an FD. A little perspective....just saying.

The perspective ought to be - whoa, I pay a premium to own a motorcycle so precisely engineered and built it should have less or at least no more failures than that of similar machines. Really, BMW pioneered the use of shaft drive and has had 89 years to perfect it. Instead - make sure you watch for leaks, don't touch it yourself, and pay extra for warranty protection on a device that routinely lasts for the life of the machine on other brands - even ones not so clean and maintained by owners. That's great advice to pass on.

That is so funny ...... check your seals for weeps, seeps, and leaks and keep your bike clean so you can notice the failure early. Now that is a different perspective for sure.

 

[TPadden]

The perspective ought to be - whoa, I pay a premium to own a motorcycle so precisely engineered and built it should have less or at least no more failures than that of similar machines...........

Nope, I pay the premium because I flat out look and feel better on a BMW, even while at the dealer with my wallet open. My Honda made me look ugly, and feel fat ....... Just sayin ......