TPadden
Tom Padden
So's BMW; annual improvements, mostly unannounced, and complete redesigns every 5 or so years ...... with multiple colors
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NHSTA opening investigation into BMW final drive failures
- Thread starter dduelin
- Start date
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I agree... hey, I love seeing all the stuff they come out with. I'm far from a bmw-hater, love the bikes. I looked really hard at the GS before getting the Tenere and decided to take a chance w/Yamaha.So's BMW ......
I wish I had enough money and storage space to buy one of each of everything...
Well....my view is where there is smoke, there is fire. It's too simple to state everyone with a failure congregates in the same place to complain about it. I have a coworker who had his FD replaced and never had a clue there were places you could go share notes about it. Likewise, I think half of my friends with the paralever had their FD replaced. I could simply state that must be 50% rate, but I know better. My guess is it's somewhere in the low double digits. I've heard some just carry a FD spare now because they know their day is coming.2. Acknowledge that even on internet forums where people with issues tend to gather the failures are not even in the double digits on percentage on member polls.
4. The overwhelming majority on percentage of owners have not had FD failures.
The bottom line is that most owners never have FD issues, yet some here rather glibly will tell anyone that mentions a BMW that it is destined to puke an FD. Yeah...that's a pragmatic perspective.
The Roadsmart tire failures are a similar example. The thinking was similar for some, it's simply internet congregation. Does that argument still apply after Dunlop issued a recall on a certain manufacture period? Yamaha kept denying there was a prevalent issue with early FJR's and valve ticking issues. Later I got the skinny from an insider who told me exactly what the problem was (manufacturing yields on a marginal design related.) Large companies tend to make it part of the business practice to deny and obfuscate until they are finally seeing the negative results in the bottom line or forced by the NHSTA.
What I think does draw attention are the 3-5 IBA riders who toast a FD every IB. Go ask them about the failure rates sometime.
TPadden
Tom Padden
I trust my dealer's numbers, he says they are directly from BMWNA, at 4%. Everything else is a guess. My guess, based on experience, is the road departure rate of this group is much higher and more of a worry
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wjbertrand
Ventura Highway
Honda actually had ABS on the ST series going back to 1992 as well as traction control, that came with the ABS package. The only model year of any ST that did not have an ABS option was the very first 1991 model. I'm amused when I read all the test reports about the new traction control systems on sport and other bikes these days. Most magazines treat it like a feature only just available in the last couple of years and descended from MotoGP. Truth is Honda was way ahead of the curve and MotoGP way back in '92 - 20 freaking years ago!
Why they have since dropped in on the ST series I don't know, but they have recently brought it back for the '12 VFR.
Why they have since dropped in on the ST series I don't know, but they have recently brought it back for the '12 VFR.
Yeah, well how many dealers tell us that "Honda has no record of stuck thermostats"?I trust my dealer's numbers, he says they are directly from BMWNA, at 4%. Everything else is a guess. My guess, based on experience, is the road departure rate of this group is much higher and more of a worry
For that matter, would BMW ever say something like, "our current failure rate for final drives is running 23%"? Who would buy from them? A small reported number is an admission of a known public problem they are trying to downplay.
BTW, before anyone accuses me of BMW bashing, let me remind you that I have occasionally ragged on Honda over their thermostats, water pump seals and motorized windscreen. It gets back to corporate business plans that calculate out a cushion for poor design and manufacturing issues.
1st off... it's a man-made product and will never, now or in the future, be perfect... even with the computers doing the manufacturing, they are man-made computers programed my humans... so, it's a loose loose scenario as far as that's concerned.
There are probably many that have purchases many of the same brand / model bikes that will present zero defects through that person's ownership of the bike... maybe some of those ride 1,000 miles a year and maybe some of them ride 50,000 miles a year.. they will have zero issues... there are others that will have issues. Again, being a man-made product (apologies to women but I'm smart enough to never refer to women and defects in the same sentence... ah... oops) they will never be perfect.
The issue w/final drives is they are a safety issue because failure of the drive could cause an accident. Even though it hasn't been done yet, I would think Honda is going to at the very least initiate a safety recall of ST1300s due to the SMC design, it was changed in 2008 but I don't think it was a perfect cure, just a little better design.
TPadden
Tom Padden
..... and they did fix the weave / wobble problem, at least in the US, by not allowing the top box option to be sold
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Haven't we :BDH: ? Don't want to worry about final drives ? Don't buy a BMW. Seems like Joe and few others had problems with u-joints on their St's. As any body here cried fire yet? Not saying there hasn't been some problems with some model BMW's but not as many as we are led to believe. I have talked to 2 BMW dealers and they have said this blown way out ( I have no reason not to believe them). Let it work it's way out. As ACL use to say " move on, nothing for you to see here, move on". Let's get back to talking about the ST high speed wobble,burned legs,roasted nuts,themostat & rear brake dragging problems. Non of which I have had save the themostat, which Honda says.... What ?..... Now back to our regular programing. Have a lovely day. :biker:
Muchmore
Train killer
Which is more than BMW has done to stop drive failures, I am tainted becasue my BMW led me to a train, dang Germans.
..... and they did fix the weave / wobble problem, at least in the US, by not allowing the top box option to be sold
Dinkie Diesel
------------Jeff------------
Careful folks! I am a certified mental capacity analysis professional. I think Booger is in a temperamental state at the moment. Let's not push him off the ledge PLEASE! If you want keep goading Padden, go ahead, he rather enjoys it.
"One giant step for man, one small leap backwards for humanity!"
BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
:crackup Funniest thing I've read all day!
Bones
Your Humble Scribe
Jeff may be a certified mental capacity analysis professional, but I'm an editor.
(That quote may have been taken out of context. A little.)
To me 4% is pretty high. I know we can all do the maths, but that's 1 in 25 final drives that fail.I trust my dealer's numbers, he says they are directly from BMWNA, at 4%. Everything else is a guess. My guess, based on experience, is the road departure rate of this group is much higher and more of a worry
A couple of little anecdotes from me....
I know a guy who has owned RT after RT since the 1100, he uses them for work as well as pleasure, does about 30,000 miles per year. He's on his 3rd 1200RT now, both of the previous ones had FD problems. He changes the bike when the warranty expires.
On a bike weekend, there were about 15 of us. My bike was the oldest, a 1998 FireBlade, then a 2000 VFR800, then a mixture of bikes - Truimphs, KTMs, newer Hondas, a Yamaha, and a 3 month old GS, a 3 year old K1200s and the aforementioned RT. We know the RT was leaking oil from the FD. The GS developed an exhaust problem, some sort of velve in the exhaust failed. And on the way home, the K12 jumped a tooth on it's timing (a common fault by all accounts). These were the only 3 problems we had, 3 too many if you ask me!
TPadden
Tom Padden
I have over 300,000 miles on BMW's with one FD failure (at 106,000 miles). Hardly a problem, I easily pulled to the side of the road. Fix was a trailer and a little money; I can live with 96% good.
I have less than 3,000 miles riding with very small groups of very elite SToc members with no less than 5 of them leaving the road for no apparent reason. Luckily only 1 required a helicopter ride. 5 is too many even when nobody asked me.
My point is about as nebulous as yours, but little anecdotes usually have little point
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TPadden
Tom Padden
Astute observation ....... A+Was the leader of the group on a beemer with a leaking FD? That would explain it!!
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TPadden
Tom Padden
BMW precognition too????Was the leader of the group on a BMW with a leaking FD?