No-Mar Tire Changer

Byron

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Well I wasn't sure if this was the right place but figured that changing tires was part of maintenace so I'll start here.

I wanted to be able to change my own tires so I shopped around for a machine and decided on the No-Mar JrPro model.



One of the reasons I went with this version over the standard was that it did have nuts welded to the attachment points but instead the tubing is drilled and taped. I also like the swing of the top bar instead of having to pivot up on the standard. It came with what you see in the picture which is a base that is anchored to the ground with 1/2" lag bolts and concret anchors, the dis-mount bar, the machine itself and 3 Xtra Hands.



I also picked up their receiver hitch mount which allows it to be used where ever I care to take it.




NO-Mar Spoon Bar 4-Pack and their tire lube.



Since they do such a good job describing the process in the video's on their site, which they also include with the machine on CD, I won't go into the process itself. I will say that the process itself was easy with this machine. I haven't decided on a mounting location yet so I simply used the receiver adapter and mounted it on my Avalanche.

The Xtra Hands came in handy more on the rear wheel than the front. I did use the spoons to finish the mount of both tires though. The ST rims don't really have much of a valley in them so I just used the Xtra hands to space the bead down for about half the last bead and then spooned the rest.

Not a single mark on either rim! The only thing that touches the wheels is whatever type of nylon or delrin material they use.

Once the wheels were disassembled I washed them off and used the compressor to blow dry them before balancing.

I decided to make my own hanging static balancer. Basically, 2 bearings (size 608 - inline skate bearings) mounted between U-shaped aluminum plate with 1-1/2" hole cut to allow axle to pass through. 8-32 screw with bushing used to attach 550 cord (parachute cord) to suspend them. The bearings I bought have non-contact dust shields on both sides of the bearings. A bearing sandwich, a size 8 bolt, aluminum plate, washer, bearing, washer, aluminum plate, nylock nut.

Being a hanging balancer I just hung the wheel from the top bar of the tire machine. I used an inclinameter against the disc to ensure the wheel was upright.

Some closing notes:

The tires I mounted are Avon AV45/46's. They are not marked for the light spot on the tire. The process I followed was to find the heavy spot of the wheel itself, which was not the valve stem. I then balanced the wheel by itself and then mounted the tire. I found the heavy spot of the tire. I then took off one side so I could rotate the tire, as I was unable to do it with both beads mounted, and positioned the heavy spots opposite each other. After remounting the bead I balanced the tire.

Do not use much tire lube during the mounting process. I didn't think that I did but as you can see in the last attached photo, the tires actually slipped on the rim on my ride to Gonzo's when I was done. Since mounting the new tires I have put 200 miles on them and the slight amount the tire moved doesn't seem to have affected the balance that I can tell. Now I have to decide if I want to pull them off the bike and recheck the balance as they are running smooth up to 80 right now.

The weights I used were a combination of what came off the wheels and the BMW stick-on's. Be advised they are about $2.75 EACH. I bought a small assortment of 5's, 10's and 15 gm's. I pulled off a 20 gm and 30 gm. The front had the 30 but balanced with 20, the back had 20 and balanced with 35.

If you decide to make your own static balancer make sure the aluminum you buy is one of the softer versions. Mine was not and presented problems when I went to bend them.

The drawing with measurements does not show the holes in the top of the piece which is just a mirror of the bottom. The reason I did it this way was to help stiffen the assembly.

I almost forgot, would I recommend this tire machine YES! Although I haven't used any other it is well built, easy to assemble and use and does not damage your wheels. If I had to replace it for any reason I would buy another. Besides it's no more expensive than some of the farkles we add to our bikes and you can do it on your schedule and not some dealers or shops schedule.
 

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nm6r

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That looks very nice. The delrin on the bar is what really makes it. Those three extra hands appear to be the sweet tool too.

I went the really cheap route and got the Harbor Freight tire changer. The delrin ended bar is the popular upgrade. Now, where do I find something like those helping hands really cheap?

Ray
 

JZH

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Is balancing the wheel a necessary step? I've never actually heard of anyone doing that before!

Looks like a good tool (and one of the few I don't yet have!), but a little bit heavy for my periodic transatlantic luggage-transport system...

Ciao,
 

Gonzo

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2 questions

Hi Byron,
I forgot to ask you yesterday whether the Avons are rated for the ST. I read all the posts here regarding tires but I don't remember Avon being mentioned.
With your tire moving on the rim, were you doing any drag racing, wheelies or stoppies that might have nudged it around the rim?
With the tires being brand new, how was your return trip in Azusa cyn? Any slippage from the preservative on the surface? How do they turn relative to the OEM's?
You mentioned to me but did not post that the circumfrence is supposed to be identical to the OEM's and that Avon claimed they are good in the wet evn with the funny sipe pattern looking backwards.
Gonzo

PS.
Yeah, I know...that's 4. So sue me.
G
 

nm6r

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JZH said:
Is balancing the wheel a necessary step? I've never actually heard of anyone doing that before!

Looks like a good tool (and one of the few I don't yet have!), but a little bit heavy for my periodic transatlantic luggage-transport system...

Ciao,
Absolutely! Balancing is a necessary step whether wheel weights are required or not. It's the only way one would know. I also suggest finding the heaviest part of the wheel without a tire so you know where to mount the lightest part of the new tire on the wheel.

I bought a Marc Parnes balancer. It is priced attractively and I couldn't find a better unit for more money.

Ray
 
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Byron

Byron

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Ray,

I don't know where you can find them "cheap" as I have only seen them on the No-Mar site. They are nice! The funny thing is I thought they were a rigid piece but they're not. The material they are made has a soft feel to it but they don't flex out of shape when using them. There is no way they would hurt a wheel unless dirt got between them and the wheel. Although they are not the same as the Xtra Hands, blocks of wood cut about 3/4" square and a few inches long work good to keep the bean down toward the valley of the rim.

JZH,

The reason I balanced the wheel by itself was because the Avon's are not marked for the lite spot of tire. I probably could have gotten away without first balancing the wheel and just balanced the tire and wheel together but I wanted the heavy spots to cancel each other out as best I could and not have them stacked together which would require more weight to balance.

Marv,

Is the Avon rated for the ST? By Honda I don't know but according to the Avon site - yes.

Bike

Make: Honda Capacity: 1300
Model: ST 1300 Pan European ABS Type: SPORT TOURING
Start Year: 2002 End Year:
Code: SC 51

Name: 120/70 R18 (59W) AV45-ST
Rims: MT3.50-18 Size: 120/70-18
Pressure: 2.50bar (36psi)

Name: 170/60 R17 (72W) AV46-ST
Rims: MT5.00-17 Size: 170/60-17
Pressure: 2.90bar (42psi)

The OEM Dunlop's are rated (front, rear) 59W, 72H while the Avon's are rated 59W, 72W. While the OEM front is rated to 168 mph the rear is only rated to 130 mph while both Avon's are rated at 168 mph.

Tire moving on the rim? No hot rodding just normal riding. It was probably a combination of any tire protectant from the factory, the No-Mar paste lube and a little of their spray on. Their lube is a water soluable vegitable base lube and the paste is about the consistancy of Vasoline. The front tire seemed to slip about an inch too. One of the thoughts that has been going around in my head, since there isn't much up there to get in the way, is it possible that the tire was attempting to adjust the balance itself sort of like the liquid or pellet tire balancer additives. Is it possible?

I was going to comment on the tires in that section but since you brought it up here I'll give you my feelings so far.

Before I start my comments on the Avon's I just want to say that I found nothing wrong with the OEM Dunlop's. I'm not a real aggressive rider, but like the canyons, and I pulled them off slightly before their time. Only because I had their replacements and the equipment to do it and couldn't wait any longer :).

After leaving Marv's I took a short jaunt up to Mt. Baldy and across Glendora Ridge Road over to Hwy 39 (Azusa Canyon) on my way home. The bike seemed to be rolling easier, smoother, softer. (I do have the front tire at 42 psi because I forgot about the recommended 36 psi.) When I go to make a turn there is no effort required, no preception of having to make the bike turn, almost like you think it and look where you want to go and it just leans over and goes. They seem smoother through the curves and I don't seem to have to make as many small corrections like with the Dunlop's. I wasn't pushing anything either but they feel like making the turns with more speed and stability without requiring rider input.

Sunday Marshal and I rode over to the Rock Store. Travelling the freeways there was no feeling like they wanted to follow the rain grooves. The bike rides so smooth but at the same time I can feel the pavement rolling under the tires. I haven't noticed any noise from them. On the way home after breaking off from Marshal I bumped it up to 80 mph to see if I could feel anything out-of-balance, I couldn't.

I was talking with one of my bosses at lunch about this and one of the comments I made to him was that the just changing the tires made me feel like a better rider. I was taking turns without any or as many minor corrections and it was virtually seamless rolling it from a right to a left and into a right again. Like it was a straight line except with lean in the bike.

I only have 200 miles on the tires so these are really just preliminary feels and observations. But from what I have read of others opinions of the tires and their handling in the wet I don't think my opinion of them will change much unless it get stronger, I really like them.

I checked the speedometer with my GPS and the numbers did not appear to have changed from what they were with the Dunlop's.
 
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JZH

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nm6r said:
Absolutely! Balancing is a necessary step whether wheel weights are required or not. It's the only way one would know. I also suggest finding the heaviest part of the wheel without a tire so you know where to mount the lightest part of the new tire on the wheel.
I understand your theory, but it is the practice I was curious about... If I were to balance a wheel, I would be inclined to do it one time only, permanently, the same way I would balance a crankshaft, for example. I am a bit surprised that wheels are not balanced from the factory.

If you were able to exactly offset an out of balance wheel with an out of balance tire, then you might be in a less-added-weight situation than if you were to balance an out of balance tire on an in balance wheel, but I think the difference would probably be negligible.

Ciao,
 

nm6r

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JZH said:
If you were able to exactly offset an out of balance wheel with an out of balance tire, then you might be in a less-added-weight situation than if you were to balance an out of balance tire on an in balance wheel, but I think the difference would probably be negligible.

It depends on the particular wheel and tire. Either way, you don't know how far out of balance the tire is until you balance the tire mounted on the wheel.

Ray
 

jeff4912

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I use the No Mar machine and it works great.

Balance tires everytime!

Avon Azaros work really well for me. Get about 8K out of the rear, 10k out of the front.
 

STCPO

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There is a new No Mar changer (Jr. Pro) in my garage as of last weekend. Have not had a chance to change tires on it yet, but my silent partner and I are looking for any, ummmm...suckers...oh I mean test subjects that need some tires changed out. After all, I have to practice before I tackle my own wheels!

I'm very impressed with the quality of this hardware and the customer service was top knotch.

Pete
 

Gonzo

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Tire wear on Avons

Byron,
I'd like to see how your new skins wear. You will probably use them up about the time I'm ready for new. My choice so far after having read ALL the tire posts is to go Z6/880. Mostly I'm interested in long mileage since slab riding is what I have to do on a daily basis.
thanx,
Gonzo
 
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Byron

Byron

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JZH,

I think I understand your confusion about the wheel balance les's see if this clears it up.

Most tires are marked for light spot that is in general practice of being lined up with the valve stem which is believed to be the heavy spot of the wheel. You need to find the true wheel heavy spot first, no weights attached. In order to find the heavy spot of the Avon tire which is not marked you need to mount it to a balanced wheel to find the true heavy spot of the tire. Once you have both of the true heavy spots you remove any balance weights, position the heavy spots oposite each other and then perform the final balance.

As long as you don't change any components of the wheel you can mark the rim for the true heavy spot. I may go to the 90 degree stems in the future to I choose not to mark the rim. Unless Avon changes their practice and begins marking the light spot I will follow the same procedure with each change.

A crank can be balanced once because each of the piston rod assemblies that are connected to them are supposed to be balanced to match each other so as not to throw things out of balance.

As previously stated not following this or a similar process runs the risk of stacking the heavy spots of the wheel and tire which would require more weight to balance.
 

JZH

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Byron said:
Most tires are marked for light spot that is in general practice of being lined up with the valve stem which is believed to be the heavy spot of the wheel.
Thanks for your continued efforts to enlighten me, but I'm afraid I just don't see the point in checking the balance of the wheel separately from the tire, if the heavy spot of the wheel is usually the valve stem area, and you're going to static balance the whole assembly anyway. At best, you *could* reduce the amount of weight necessary to achieve static balance, but in most cases this would be a negligible difference from what you would otherwise have had to use. But hey, it's your time! :bow1:

Ciao,
 

nm6r

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JZH said:
Thanks for your continued efforts to enlighten me, but I'm afraid I just don't see the point in checking the balance of the wheel separately from the tire, if the heavy spot of the wheel is usually the valve stem area, and you're going to static balance the whole assembly anyway. At best, you *could* reduce the amount of weight necessary to achieve static balance, but in most cases this would be a negligible difference from what you would otherwise have had to use. But hey, it's your time! :bow1:

Ciao,
It's really only required to check the wheel balance once, unless something about the wheel is changed, for example a different type of valve stem.

The goal is to use as little weight as possible to balance a tire on a given wheel. The reason is less unsprung weight is desirable.

Here is an extreme example. You never remove a weight from the wheel. Every time you change tires you just add another weight where required to balance the wheel. What a disaster that would be.

Not to mention, the more weights on a wheel, the better the chances of throwing one.

Ray
 

ST1300 Alicia

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I want the Junior-Pro model also. It looks like it is an affordable upgrade over the STD Model. I think I'm going to get the complete kit $1150.00 delivered. Sounds like a lot of money, but I like to do my own work and I don't have the patients for poor tools. If a tool doesn't work well I tend to cut them up with a torch and throw them in the junk pile. That makes for a very bad investment.
 
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ST1300 Alicia said:
I want the Junior-Pro model also. It looks like it is an affordable upgrade over the STD Model. I think I'm going to get the complete kit $1150.00 delivered. Sounds like a lot of money, but I like to do my own work and I don't have the patients for poor tools. If a tool doesn't work well I tend to cut them up with a torch and throw them in the junk pile. That makes for a very bad investment.
For better than a grand that tire changer must be one quality tool and I too get really frustrated with cheap crap.
I think I have about $100 tied up in my tire changing tools but I still need an extra pair of hands to do the job. I am still looking for a set of Quick grip clamps that will work around the tire... most only seem to have about a two-three inch reach.
 

nm6r

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ST1300 Alicia said:
I want the Junior-Pro model also. It looks like it is an affordable upgrade over the STD Model. I think I'm going to get the complete kit $1150.00 delivered. Sounds like a lot of money, but I like to do my own work and I don't have the patients for poor tools. If a tool doesn't work well I tend to cut them up with a torch and throw them in the junk pile. That makes for a very bad investment.
$1150 for a manual changer? You can get an automatic unit delivered for $1300. I know because I almost did. I just couldn't justify that kind of expense over the $100 I have in my manual changer.

Ray
 
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