Saint Joe
Joe
Had to come to a quick stop this am so used both brakes and now my front brake won't release! Any suggestions?? I'm using my blackberry so reading & typing sucks.
Rear Brake Locked Up Solid
- Thread starter Saint Joe
- Start date
Re: Front Brake Locked Up Solid
pcv holding the ctr piston? try stomping on the brake pedal a few times. any change?
pcv holding the ctr piston? try stomping on the brake pedal a few times. any change?
Tom Mac 04a
Site Supporter
Re: Front Brake Locked Up Solid
try and release pressure by opening nipples on calipers (have rags to prevent brake fluid on paint)
try and release pressure by opening nipples on calipers (have rags to prevent brake fluid on paint)
BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
Re: Front Brake Locked Up Solid
Is rear brake caliper rotated forward and squeezing the rear hydraulic brake line? (If so, the rear caliper stopper bolt is missing)
Is rear brake caliper rotated forward and squeezing the rear hydraulic brake line? (If so, the rear caliper stopper bolt is missing)
OP
OP
Saint Joe
Joe
Re: Front Brake Locked Up Solid
Quick Update...& maybe a Mod would change the subject from "Front" to "Rear"?
I could barely move it 50' to get it off the main drag, and after a few phone calls to let folks know where I was, I got it up on the center stand and found it wasn't the front brake at all, but rather the back brake. I think I figured it was the front because I didn't feel the normal rebound after letting off the brakes.
Bike is a 2008 with ABS that hasn't had the rear brake recall done yet (guess that will get done now!), and just over 8,000Km's (5,000Miles) so it hasn't even had the rear tire off. Bit more info, the other 5 guys I was going riding/camping with came by (Thanks guys!), and by the time they got there, the rear wheel would kind of spin but still seemed to drag a bit more than another ST1300 (Rocketman's). Gave it a little ride in the parking lot, cranked on the brakes, and voila, rear brake locked again.
Sucks to watch 5 guys head out of town on a long anticipated 3 day weekend, but there's always a bright side - since I didn't even get out of town, picking it up with a trailer and getting it in the shop will be easy!
Thanks for all the quick replies.
Joe
Quick Update...& maybe a Mod would change the subject from "Front" to "Rear"?
I could barely move it 50' to get it off the main drag, and after a few phone calls to let folks know where I was, I got it up on the center stand and found it wasn't the front brake at all, but rather the back brake. I think I figured it was the front because I didn't feel the normal rebound after letting off the brakes.
Bike is a 2008 with ABS that hasn't had the rear brake recall done yet (guess that will get done now!), and just over 8,000Km's (5,000Miles) so it hasn't even had the rear tire off. Bit more info, the other 5 guys I was going riding/camping with came by (Thanks guys!), and by the time they got there, the rear wheel would kind of spin but still seemed to drag a bit more than another ST1300 (Rocketman's). Gave it a little ride in the parking lot, cranked on the brakes, and voila, rear brake locked again.
Sucks to watch 5 guys head out of town on a long anticipated 3 day weekend, but there's always a bright side - since I didn't even get out of town, picking it up with a trailer and getting it in the shop will be easy!
We pulled the bag off and didn't see or feel anything abnormal, so guessing it's something internal.
Thanks for all the quick replies.
Joe
BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
Is the front SMC stuck 'forward', towards the front left fork tube?
+1 Tug on the left front caliper and see if it will rotate slightly backward. There is a small plunger/piston that is activated when you use your front brakes (SMC - secondary master cylinder) that will activate your rear brake. It can get stuck and cause the exact problem you're experiencing. In fact this is a very common problem on the ST1300, do a search for it here and you'll see post after post after post.
I goofed on the note on the pic. It is meant to say "The caliper will rotate ever so slightly on this pivot point".
Last edited:
BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
Great picture and description Joe. 
OP
OP
Saint Joe
Joe
JoeP & Bakerboy, Thanks for the additional advice and picture. Going to go get my bike with a trailer soon and I wouldn't be surprised if this is in fact what the problem is. Given this is a common problem, is there anything that can be done to prevent it, or is this a common thing that should just be serviced/checked frequently?
Any recommended link(s) here on this (Servicing or a modification to permanently solve the problem)?
I have the Honda service manual so I guess a little light reading & personal education time is due (I never heard of a caliper that pivoted, but then I'm not a mechanic either).
Great forum with great advisors/advice!
Joe
Any recommended link(s) here on this (Servicing or a modification to permanently solve the problem)?
I have the Honda service manual so I guess a little light reading & personal education time is due (I never heard of a caliper that pivoted, but then I'm not a mechanic either).
Great forum with great advisors/advice!
Joe
On pre '08 models there was a drian hole on the top of the housing of the SMC. A groove was cut in place of the drain hole on the later models. With the angle of the SMC, it is very easy to collect water on the top, causing accelerated corrosion. The hole or groove was a non-effective remedy. A suggestion to prolong the life would be to take compressed air and help it dry out quicker, just above the boot on top of the piston, after washing your bike or when encountering water (puddles, rain, etc). It the search (above right) type in "SMC" or "SMC failure". Tons of links will come up.
One note, speaking from personal experience, is that if and when you replace the brake pads, use ONLY OEM Honda pads. I've just recently returned from brake hell. Part of the problem was the SMC, the other was non-OEM pads.
You'll find a member here "igofar" is of particular good help and advice. I'm not sure if he is a full time motorcycle mechanic or moonlights as one but he has been very helpful.
One note, speaking from personal experience, is that if and when you replace the brake pads, use ONLY OEM Honda pads. I've just recently returned from brake hell. Part of the problem was the SMC, the other was non-OEM pads.
You'll find a member here "igofar" is of particular good help and advice. I'm not sure if he is a full time motorcycle mechanic or moonlights as one but he has been very helpful.
This is the "ST1300 Brakes" section of the Tech part of the forum.
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?456-ST1300-Brakes
Here's a quote from Igofar at this post - https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?115891-Irresolvable-rear-brake-drag-*SOLVED-with-pics*
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?456-ST1300-Brakes
Here's a quote from Igofar at this post - https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?115891-Irresolvable-rear-brake-drag-*SOLVED-with-pics*
From my personal experience and assuming you'll be cleaning the brake pistons and or smc piston, ONLY use a toothbrush and brake fluid. I used brake cleaner (contains acetone) and caused the seals to swell on my front calipers.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2006
- Messages
- 9,689
- Location
- Jacksonville
- Bike
- GL1800 R1200RT NC700
- 2024 Miles
- 010688
- STOC #
- 6651
It should be noted that when you manually compress the SMC the amount it compresses is less than 3 mm. When in perfect shape it moves very little.
IMHO the reason there are so many problems with the rear brake dragging is neglecting to service the brake fluid in accordance with Honda's recommendation. The drain in the boot area on the SMC drains just fine if kept open. I have thousands of miles riding in rain w/o any problems and I wash my bike average twice a month. The most I might do after washing it is to ride it around the block dragging the brakes to heat them up so water evaporates off the disks and the caliper pistons when I park it. Or maybe I am just lucky but I do service the brakes on time.
IMHO the reason there are so many problems with the rear brake dragging is neglecting to service the brake fluid in accordance with Honda's recommendation. The drain in the boot area on the SMC drains just fine if kept open. I have thousands of miles riding in rain w/o any problems and I wash my bike average twice a month. The most I might do after washing it is to ride it around the block dragging the brakes to heat them up so water evaporates off the disks and the caliper pistons when I park it. Or maybe I am just lucky but I do service the brakes on time.
st1300doug
YEP...JOEP has it. That SMC slave must be free. Mine did exactly that and it was a loosened bolt at the pivot point. 3 minutes later...fixed!!
OP
OP
Saint Joe
Joe
Just looking into availability of parts, and according to one of the local Honda shops, it appears both the PISTON SET (45620-MCS-R01) and the more complete BRACKET SUB-ASSY. (06454-MCS-R01) will take about a month (4-5 wks) to get (none in Canada), and only slightly more $$ than listed on the fiche at ronayers.com so will likely just order locally (& support the local dealer).
What I would like to know is: What are the bold Letters & Numbers on the fiche?
e.g. the F-5 & F-5-1 and the F-10 (which I believe is the bushing with the needle bearings in it).
These items aren't listed below with the other part numbers. Are they found on some other web page?
http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/LEFT_FRONT_BRAKE_CALIPER_('08)_/MakeID/1/Make/Honda/YearID/49/Year/2008/ModelID/8115/Model/ST1300/GroupID/386601/Group/LEFT_FRONT_BRAKE_CALIPER_('08)_
Joe
What I would like to know is: What are the bold Letters & Numbers on the fiche?
e.g. the F-5 & F-5-1 and the F-10 (which I believe is the bushing with the needle bearings in it).
These items aren't listed below with the other part numbers. Are they found on some other web page?
http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/LEFT_FRONT_BRAKE_CALIPER_('08)_/MakeID/1/Make/Honda/YearID/49/Year/2008/ModelID/8115/Model/ST1300/GroupID/386601/Group/LEFT_FRONT_BRAKE_CALIPER_('08)_
Joe
Last edited:
RONST1300
STOC # 8616
Jevance, Don't let the fluid out of the bleeders. Hit the FOOT brake a number of times to see if it releases first. Then check both the master cylinders, the one on the front left fork and the one shown above. They should be able to manually move 3/16 of an inch. They do not really rotate, but move in and out. If they do not move, that's your problem. The front SMC can just as easily lock the back. Just as air in your lines.
Ron
Ron
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2006
- Messages
- 9,689
- Location
- Jacksonville
- Bike
- GL1800 R1200RT NC700
- 2024 Miles
- 010688
- STOC #
- 6651
It means the parts in the box are found on another fiche page which in the case of the lower pivot bearing is the fork page.
an interesting and possible temp solution here if it's the SMC..
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?118608-SMC-Override-Test-TempFix
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?118608-SMC-Override-Test-TempFix
I recommend that any of you who have had rear brake lock-ups report what happened to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration at : www.nhtsa.gov
You might save a rider's life if enough reports are made and a recall is done.
You might save a rider's life if enough reports are made and a recall is done.
OP
OP
Saint Joe
Joe
Well, the SMC "guesses" were correct - see pics! Looks almost identical to scooterdoc's on his link (https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?118834-SMC-and-Props-to-those-Here).
dduelin, thanks for explaining the fiche - that helped. Is there a way to interpret what fiche page(s) go with what numbers on other fiche pages? I was originally asking because of the lower pivot bearing, but it looked pretty good and rolled freely, so I just cleaned it up and repacked it.
bkra13, agree that's an interesting temp solution. Funny that as I was explaining the problem to my Heavy Duty Mechanic friend from school days, he suggested the same general thing. It was weird hearing him make that suggestion and I had to laugh, because I know he hadn't seen Unplugged's idea (https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?118608-SMC-Override-Test-TempFix). Not something I would have likely thought of!
sbacon, thought about this - would need to do it with the equivalent in Canada. I can't help but wonder what would happen if someone had to hammer on the brakes to avoid something (e.g. a deer) at highway speeds, and the rear brake locks up at 60+ mph (100+ Kph) - a little disconcerting. Heck of a time to find out your SMC was pooched....
And finally a thank you to Igofar for a phone call (on his dime from California to Canada!) to chat about my problem and where to start, what to look for, right down to being aware of the fibre washers on the forks!
I still have to bleed them, and might not get to that task right away as I'm heading out of town for 7-10 days soon, but don't expect to run into any problems...we'll see.
Thanks again everyone!
Joe
dduelin, thanks for explaining the fiche - that helped. Is there a way to interpret what fiche page(s) go with what numbers on other fiche pages? I was originally asking because of the lower pivot bearing, but it looked pretty good and rolled freely, so I just cleaned it up and repacked it.
bkra13, agree that's an interesting temp solution. Funny that as I was explaining the problem to my Heavy Duty Mechanic friend from school days, he suggested the same general thing. It was weird hearing him make that suggestion and I had to laugh, because I know he hadn't seen Unplugged's idea (https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?118608-SMC-Override-Test-TempFix). Not something I would have likely thought of!
sbacon, thought about this - would need to do it with the equivalent in Canada. I can't help but wonder what would happen if someone had to hammer on the brakes to avoid something (e.g. a deer) at highway speeds, and the rear brake locks up at 60+ mph (100+ Kph) - a little disconcerting. Heck of a time to find out your SMC was pooched....
And finally a thank you to Igofar for a phone call (on his dime from California to Canada!) to chat about my problem and where to start, what to look for, right down to being aware of the fibre washers on the forks!
I still have to bleed them, and might not get to that task right away as I'm heading out of town for 7-10 days soon, but don't expect to run into any problems...we'll see.
Thanks again everyone!
Joe
