Series vs Parallel Heated Suit Wiring- How Do I tell?

[Andrew Shadow]

@SMSW @Larry Fine

I have a question for the electricians here, and anyone else who may be able to answer this.

I have a Widder heated suit. While it is very old, it is in like new condition, as it has very rarely been used. Included is a pair of heated gloves.
I remember reading that the Widder heated clothing is wired in series, but I don't know if this is fact. Widder is no longer in business, so information from them is no longer available.

When the entire suit is worn, the gloves plug in to the heated arm chaps, the chaps plug in to the heated vest, the vest plugs in to the power source. When using everything as intended, everything works properly.
Widder also sold a separate wiring harness to allow the gloves to be used separately without having to wear either the arm chaps or the vest. I don't have this wiring harness.
I thought that I would make my own wiring harness and set up the bike so that I could plug the heated gloves directly in to an accessory plug that I have on the plate between the handlebars. This would allow me to use these heated gloves without having to wear the vest.

I thought that this would be a simple two-wire harness to supply power like any other circuit until I read the warning about Widder being wired in series. I don't care about hooking them up and finding out that they don't work. That is only part of a learning curve. What I am concerned about is wiring them up incorrectly and damaging them. I obviously can not see inside of any part of this system to see how it is wired. Using the exposed connectors that are on the gloves, and on the arm chaps, and on the vest, and the power supply cord if required, my questions are;

1- how do I determine if these are wired in series or parallel?
I have test lights, multi-meters, 12V power supply, etc., available to accomplish basic testing.
Basic resistance tests tell me what resistance is in the circuit, and if there is continuity.
What I don't know is what test, and what test result, will allow me to distinguish a series circuit from a parallel circuit using what I have available to test with.

2- If they are wired in series and I connected them to a regular 12V parallel wiring set-up, what would happen? Will they be damaged?

3- Conversely, if they turn out to be a regular parallel set-up, and I connected them to a series wiring harness, will they be damaged?

Part of the reason why this is confusing me is that if this whole system is a series circuit as I have read, how does it work when one component is removed?
The vest plugs in to the power source, then the arm chaps plug in to the vest, then the gloves plug in to the arm chaps.
If this whole suit is wired in series, when the entire suit is being worn, the power would flow through the vest, through one arm chap, through one glove, through the other arm chap, through the second glove, and then back to the power source, or some combination of the above, but always in series.

4- Removing anyone of the components in a series circuit would open the series circuit and disable everything wouldn't it?

However, the entire suit can be used, or the just the vest and the arm chaps, or just the vest, and it all works fine even though components have been removed opening the circuit.
This seems more like how a parallel circuit works as opposed to a series circuit?

I realize that it there is the possibility that it could be wired as a series/parallel circuit, but I don't really understand that set-up and don't know how to test for that either.

I would appreciate any assistance that would keep me from ruining these gloves.

 

[playfair]

Not a bonified electrician, but I have made several heated jackets...
I would start off measuring the resistance of each piece of gear.
For a baseline, my jacket draws 4 amps, which equates to about 50watts, assuming 12.5v.
It's resistance is a smidge over 3 ohms.
My guess is that only your gloves are wired in series, as it would not make much sense to force the whole outfit for all conditions.
I don't know what power is normal for gloves, but if you test them at 12v in series first and see how hot they get you won't do any damage.

Make sure when you measure resistance there are no controllers in line, else you will have to power up and measure current instead.

 

[Bush]

Here's my unqualified thought. If the various items are wired in series with each other, should one of the items suffer a break in a wire, then none of the other components would function either, just like a string of Christmas lights wired in series will totally fail, should one bulb burn out.

 

[Uncle Phil]

Widder is definitely series and if you plug it into the 'newer' stuff wired in parallel it will get really, really hot really, really quickly.
You can guess how I know that ...
You can get adapters to get from SAE to Widder, but you'd better have a really good thermostat that you can turn it down really low.
I still have all my Widder heated gear and the newer stuff also.

 

[Larry Fine]

Until Uncle Phil commented, I was going to say that they're electrically wired in parallel, even if fed through another piece of clothing. Any load that is independently rated for 12v will work independently, or in parallel with other loads.

Maybe he can explain how series-wired clothing works with less than the entire ensemble.

 

[STFlips]

Until Uncle Phil commented, I was going to say that they're electrically wired in parallel, even if fed through another piece of clothing. Any load that is independently rated for 12v will work independently, or in parallel with other loads.

Maybe he can explain how series-wired clothing works with less than the entire ensemble.

I was wondering that too, wouldn't the separate obsolete wiring harness Andrew refered to mean the item was in parallel OR does mean it has a sufficient resistor so it didn't burn out the gloves?
I think metering the resistance between plugs on gear in series would shed some light on this.

 

[Jjonahjamison]

I have old Widder heated gloves, which are now wired to a newer Gerbing electric jacket with glove plugs at the end of each sleeve. I had to wire a Heat Troller to control the heat of the formerly in-series Widder gloves, now wired in parallel through the jacket, in order to not to cook my hands.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

My guess is that only your gloves are wired in series, as it would not make much sense to force the whole outfit for all conditions.

That is what I was thinking, but others who have replied state that Widder is wired in series, so I don't understand how the separate pieces can function independently.

If the various items are wired in series with each other, should one of the items suffer a break in a wire, then none of the other components would function either, just like a string of Christmas lights wired in series will totally fail, should one bulb burn out.

The exact analogy I was pondering in my mind contemplating this before asking.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Maybe he can explain how series-wired clothing works with less than the entire ensemble.

I would like to know this as well because it doesn't make sense to me.
@Larry Fine, is there no electrical test that I can perform that would determine whether it is a series or parallel set-up?

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I think metering the resistance between plugs on gear in series would shed some light on this.

I didn't think that that information would shed any light but I can do that if it will.

I had to wire a Heat Troller to control the heat of the formerly in-series Widder gloves, now wired in parallel through the jacket, in order to not to cook my hands.

For now, I was only going to use an on/off switch because that is what I have. I can always include a controller however, what I really want to know is if I am going to ruin the gloves if I connect them in parallel if they are indeed a series set-up, or ruin them by doing the reverse. I don't want destroy them by plugging them in.
From the experience of yourself and @Uncle Phil, it sounds as though I don't have to worry about this?

 

[Uncle Phil]

The original Widder specs were in series (at least for the gloves) and as JJ noted, unless you change something, the Widder gloves will cook your hands hooked to a HeatTroller 'normally'. That is not theory, that is experience. As to how the rest of the stuff does or does not work - connected or disconnected, I don't have a clue.
I did not 'destroy' the gloves the first time, but I did get a set of 'hot hands' for sure!
The original Widder wiring was basically stranded 'lamp cord' and the connectors had set screws ... and the wires broke at the connectors a lot.
The 'newer' Widder connectors had molded plugs - still with 'lamp cord' but at least you were not on the side of the road in the cold trying to fix the crappy connectors!
A quote from ADV rider -

I've got widder gear (gloves, sleeves, & vest) and you're correct the gloves are wired in series, ie. each glove gets 6v instead of being in parallel and getting 12v. So it sounds like the homemade wiring harness should work fine. You can still get wiring harnesses, connectors, and some gloves and vest sizes from the iron butt e-store as I believe they bought out the remaining stock when Widder closed it's doors.

So maybe the gloves were wired in series and the rest wired in parallel - I don't know.

Here's another link that might be helpful (he never mentions redoing the gloves that I can see) -

All Things WIDDER | Iron Butt Forum

 

[Andrew Shadow]

So maybe the gloves were wired in series and the rest wired in parallel - I don't know.

That is what my first conclusion was based on my understanding of electricity, as I don't understand how it could work otherwise.

What I really wanted to know is if I was going to ruin these gloves before I have ever used them. The experience of both yourself and @Jjonahjamison seems pretty clear that I need not worry about this, so I thank you both for that reassurance.

By the way Phil, the suit that I have is the one with the "crappy connectors", so I guess this is a pretty old suit, but it is like brand new.

I would still be interested in knowing if there is an electrical test that can be performed to determine series vs parallel however, just for intellectual curiosity purposes at this point I guess.

 

[Uncle Phil]

Just a note on the 'crappy' connectors - one trick was to tin the stranded wire and then stick in the connector and tighten the screws.
And if you were lucky, the tinned wire didn't break.
One of my science projects in high school was to wire a display board with a parallel and a series circuit of light bulbs.
FWIW, the light bulbs in the parallel circuit burned much brighter than the ones in the series circuit.
So maybe a circuit end to end voltage check with a meter?

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Phil:

I have had quick look through the IBA forum that you directed me to as well as some of the links in that article. It is clearly stated by Widder that the gloves are wired in series. I tend to think that the rest of their suit was wired in parallel though.

Widder also specifically stated not to wire them in parallel. They CAUTION that the gloves will be damaged and the warranty will be voided.
I can simply make a series wiring harness, or if I get lazy I can see if there any are any still available from IBA, except that they state that they won't ship outside of the US.

So I have my answer, so thank you for that.

 

[Jjonahjamison]

That is what my first conclusion was based on my understanding of electricity, as I don't understand how it could work otherwise.

What I really wanted to know is if I was going to ruin these gloves before I have ever used them. The experience of both yourself and @Jjonahjamison seems pretty clear that I need not worry about this, so I thank you both for that reassurance.

By the way Phil, the suit that I have is the one with the "crappy connectors", so I guess this is a pretty old suit, but it is like brand new.

I would still be interested in knowing if there is an electrical test that can be performed to determine series vs parallel however, just for intellectual curiosity purposes at this point I guess.

I have been using my Widder gloves re-wired in parallel, controlled by a Heat-Troller for quite a long time, and the gloves are still fine. My Widders are about 20 years old, but don’t get a ton of usage (spring/fall). They are a quality product in my estimation, which is why I rewired them to the new jacket and bought the Heat-Troller (after finding out they were too hot).

FYI, the name brand Heat-Troller I am using is basically a variable timer - it opens the circuit to full voltage, then shuts it off, and repeats. I am not sure if all such controllers work this way. The number of seconds it is on/off determines how much heat is generated. In very cold/wet weather I have had the Troller up near max, and I haven’t burned out my gloves. But normally I have the Troller set at medium, so voltage on about half the time.

 

[oude geit]

If you know the wattage, Resistance, voltage you should be able to calculate, determine series, parallel.

http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/media/wysiwyg/Ohm-Law-Pie-Chart.png

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I am not sure if all such controllers work this way.

I think that most controllers of any repute available now vary the heat by varying the duty cycle as opposed to introducing a variable resistor like the old ones used to. This is much more efficient and wastes much less power.

I haven’t burned out my gloves.

That is what I mostly wanted to know, thanks.

If you know the wattage, Resistance, voltage you should be able to calculate, determine series, parallel.

http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/media/wysiwyg/Ohm-Law-Pie-Chart.png

I'll look to see if I can find wattage ratings somewhere and see what I can determine.

 

[oude geit]

Damn, gonna make me think...lol if
Volt2÷resistance= power. If you ohm out a glove. Run the calculation. If the calculated power matches rated watts its parallel, if not series. Im thinking series will be a higher watt rating.

 

[Uncle Phil]

Phil:

I have had quick look through the IBA forum that you directed me to as well as some of the links in that article. It is clearly stated by Widder that the gloves are wired in series. I tend to think that the rest of their suit was wired in parallel though.

Widder also specifically stated not to wire them in parallel. They CAUTION that the gloves will be damaged and the warranty will be voided.
I can simply make a series wiring harness, or if I get lazy I can see if there any are any still available from IBA, except that they state that they won't ship outside of the US.

So I have my answer, so thank you for that.

Andrew - I'm of the same opinion because if they just changed the 'plugs' on the vest to coax (I didn't see where they messed with the wiring), then the vest would have to be parallel or it would roast you very quickly like the gloves do on 12 volts. JJonah's experience sounds like he's got the glove thing figured out long term.

 

[oude geit]

I only have heated socks but this thread has me thinking..lol. if you build a heated suit, vest gloves etc..all in series, nothing would work unless all pieces where plugged in... my question is, do you have to wear all the pieces for the suits to work?