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ST1100 (non ABS) Fork leaking oil
- Thread starter krist0ph3r
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2020
- Messages
- 871
- Age
- 59
- Location
- Deux-Montagnes, Quebec, Canada
- Bike
- 2000 ST1100Y
- STOC #
- 9063
Geeee, Larry, you were not joking
Another angle, and plenty of working space:
I thought you just picked a picture somewhere on internet to make a joke.
Geeee.. hi hi.
Still make me laugh, though.
As @Obo would probably say... it's a "Fine" solution. ;-)
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Nope. That was when I rebuilt the forks. New bushings and seals, springs were okay, fluid level 1/4" above specs.Geeee, Larry, you were not joking
OP
OP
So my jack and torque wrench arrived, and I set off to try to get the anti dive assembly off this weekend. Turns out I could have seen the problem without either of them: The anti dive case has cracked, and I'm assuming the entire assembly will have to be replaced.
However, I was unable to remove the "Stop ring" which is step 1 of the disassembly instructions - not sure if it's supposed to be opened with an Allen key (in which case the head seems damaged), or is it something else? Honda and Haynes manuals do not have any instructions besides "remove it" so it seems like something obvious.
So my next steps are:
- Attempt to remove the stop ring (how?)
- Order all the parts in the assembly, as the extent of external damage suggests the internals won't be in good condition either?
I'm wondering, Is there a possibility that anything else in the fork could have been damaged by the impact on the anti dive, so I will not be able to know the full list of parts until the entire assembly is off?
I also assumed I should be able to move end of the caliper connected to the anti-dive assembly away from the fork, but was unable to do so by hand or using a pair of pliers between the fork and the assembly, or by grabbing the calipers and pulling them away from the rotor by hand (without applying too much force). How much does the anti dive assembly move when operating normally? I'm wondering if I should also be inspecting the pivot bolt of the calipers for damage, as that and the anti-dive mechanism at the only two points connecting the calipers to the fork - is that correct?
However, I was unable to remove the "Stop ring" which is step 1 of the disassembly instructions - not sure if it's supposed to be opened with an Allen key (in which case the head seems damaged), or is it something else? Honda and Haynes manuals do not have any instructions besides "remove it" so it seems like something obvious.
So my next steps are:
- Attempt to remove the stop ring (how?)
- Order all the parts in the assembly, as the extent of external damage suggests the internals won't be in good condition either?
I'm wondering, Is there a possibility that anything else in the fork could have been damaged by the impact on the anti dive, so I will not be able to know the full list of parts until the entire assembly is off?
I also assumed I should be able to move end of the caliper connected to the anti-dive assembly away from the fork, but was unable to do so by hand or using a pair of pliers between the fork and the assembly, or by grabbing the calipers and pulling them away from the rotor by hand (without applying too much force). How much does the anti dive assembly move when operating normally? I'm wondering if I should also be inspecting the pivot bolt of the calipers for damage, as that and the anti-dive mechanism at the only two points connecting the calipers to the fork - is that correct?
Your circled fitting is (was) an allen head bolt, which someone has kindly rounded off for you. I have had some success in that situation (a seized brake pad pin) using a suitably-sized Torx bit hammered into the bolt head, and then encouraged to move using an impact driver. There is probably some corrosion between the steel bolt and the alloy which has seized the bolt in place, some penetrating oil might help, or heating the alloy part (careful of fire with all that oil around!). All this will be easiest with the fork removed from the bike. You will need to replace the bolt when you get it out.
A hammer and chisel may work being careful not to hit the bracket, one or two inward blows first to leave a decent indentation and then a good tap anti clock to hopefully make it move. Some penetrating oil as per Terry never hurts.
Good luck, looks like you'll need it.
Upt'North.
Good luck, looks like you'll need it.
Upt'North.
This is going to be a bit of work to resolve, since the rounded bolt is what holds the lower part of the left caliper bracket to the anti-dive piston rod. The lower caliper bracket has a "Y" shape, so the threaded part of the rounded off bolt goes into the other side of the "Y". So if you can't break the bolt loose, drilling out the head isn't going to help because the bolt will still be going across the "Y", just without a head.
If you can't break the bolt loose while on the bike, then I suspect if you remove the top bolt for the left caliper bracket, then the caliper can be rotated downward, and you may have access to the top right anti-dive unit bolt, the other 3 are easily accessible without removing anything. However, the brake rotor may still be in the way, and if so, you should be able to remove the wheel and get access to that 4th bolt. Then take the anti-dive unit out of the lower fork tube, it will still be attached to the lower caliper bolt, but you can remove the caliper from its brake line to work on extracting the rounded off bolt with everything off the bike.
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John OoSTerhuis
Life Is Good!
You need to do a proper suspension fluid level service after fixing the anti-dive, so pull the fork now. Drop the wheel , slide the caliper off it’s pins and hang it (min stress on hose/banjo). Once off the bike, clean the fork slider and brake bracket and get some penetrant on that bolt’s threads (as noted, on the other side of the bracket). Good luck!
John
John
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good idea John, I always forget that on these two-piston calipers the caliper and mounting bracket are two separate parts.
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OP
OP
So if I've understood this correctly, I need to:
- remove the top bolt holding the caliper to its mount
- remove the wheel
- remove the 4 bolts attaching the anti dive to the fork
- try to remove the bolt holding the caliper to the anti dive using the (hopefully non-stripped) other end? have I got this step right, and if so how would I do that, without being able to prevent the outer end from turning?
- remove the fork outer tube? is this to get better access to stuff? or am i supposed to detach the entire fork from the T at the top? I assume the latter is how I'd have to fill oil after I've got replacement parts fitted etc, so the last thing I'd need to be doing.
I live in an apartment, and the bike is parked in the basement with all the other residents vehicles so I only want to remove bits that I can safely leave detached until replacement parts arrive. The wheel strikes me as something that might get nicked if I left it lying about, so if I remove it, I'd either have to re-attach it or store it in my closet upstairs, but I probably re-attach it if I detach the left fork as well
I will have to prop up the bike with a scissor jack (mechanical, not hydraulic) under the engine and a bit of cushioning. Is it fine to leave it in this state for weeks until parts arrive?
- remove the top bolt holding the caliper to its mount
- remove the wheel
- remove the 4 bolts attaching the anti dive to the fork
- try to remove the bolt holding the caliper to the anti dive using the (hopefully non-stripped) other end? have I got this step right, and if so how would I do that, without being able to prevent the outer end from turning?
- remove the fork outer tube? is this to get better access to stuff? or am i supposed to detach the entire fork from the T at the top? I assume the latter is how I'd have to fill oil after I've got replacement parts fitted etc, so the last thing I'd need to be doing.
I live in an apartment, and the bike is parked in the basement with all the other residents vehicles so I only want to remove bits that I can safely leave detached until replacement parts arrive. The wheel strikes me as something that might get nicked if I left it lying about, so if I remove it, I'd either have to re-attach it or store it in my closet upstairs, but I probably re-attach it if I detach the left fork as well
I will have to prop up the bike with a scissor jack (mechanical, not hydraulic) under the engine and a bit of cushioning. Is it fine to leave it in this state for weeks until parts arrive?
rwthomas1
Site Supporter
It may be possible to remove the anti-dive mechanism with the caliper bracket still attached. Once the front wheel is dropped down and removed, the caliper will simply slide off the floater pins, as others have suggested above. With the upper caliper bracket bolt removed, there may be enough room to get to the four allen head bolts holding the anti-dive. If so, the anti-dive an bracket come out together, and maybe the fork can stay installed.
Either way, you will have to get the stripped lower allen head caliper retaining bolt out. One trick I have had work is to find the closest, just a bit larger, Torx socket bit that will fit into the stripped allen bolt head. Back up the bolt on something solid, and hammer the Torx into the stripped bolt head. Done correctly, the Torx bites into the metal and the bolt comes out. Worth a try if other methods fail.
RT
Either way, you will have to get the stripped lower allen head caliper retaining bolt out. One trick I have had work is to find the closest, just a bit larger, Torx socket bit that will fit into the stripped allen bolt head. Back up the bolt on something solid, and hammer the Torx into the stripped bolt head. Done correctly, the Torx bites into the metal and the bolt comes out. Worth a try if other methods fail.
RT
No, to both of these. Your initial goal is simple, get access to the 4 bolts holding the anti-dive in the fork. The upper-right one is the only problem, the other 3 are easily accessible without removing anything, so we're describing how to get access to the upper right one. The caliper bracket is in the way, so by removing the top mounting bolt (which hopefully isn't rounded off as well) you'll be able to rotate the bracket downward so its no longer in the way. Then you may be able to access the 4th bolt, or maybe not, the brake rotor may be in the way. If you can get good access to the 4th bolt with the wheel still on the bike, then remove the bolt and leave the wheel on the bike. If the brake rotor is making that difficult, then remove the front wheel so the rotor is no longer in the way.
remember to have an oil pan under the fork when you remove the anti-dive, any remaining oil in the fork will drain out.
After you have the anti-dive removed, then you'll need to try to remove the rounded off bolt. Given your limited resources, you may be better off taking that to a professional for help.
ReSTored
Site Supporter
Bottom line is that the wheel and forks have to come off the bike at some point to be refilled properly. Rather than attempt this repair in a makeshift way working around things just bite the bullet, remove the wheel and fork tubes and do the refurb in your apartment. I know most condo and apartment buildings around here have rules prohibiting mechanical work being done in the garage. Stripping off the parts and then doing the nitty gritty work in your appt. minimises the time spent in the common garage area.
rwthomas1
Site Supporter
I'm going to disagree that the forks have to come off the bike. The OP is a newbie to wrenching and this is a lot to ask, unless the fork seals are leaking. I just did new springs and didn't remove handlebars or forks. Loosen handlebars and rotate back, the fork caps and springs clear easily. Remove caps and springs, compress the forks fully with front wheel installed and on centerstand, add oil to 95% of Honda specified volume. Then simply use a long thin wire, like a coathanger or bit of welding rod, as a dipstick, with a bend in it at the appropriate spot to set the final oil level. Easy, and much simpler.
RT
RT
It seems the OP is working without the huge benefit of having the Honda Service Manual to guide him through removal procedures of the various components he is working on. I suggest he get one.
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John OoSTerhuis
Life Is Good!
You mentioned the stop ring. It’s number 1 in this schematic from the Honda Service Manual:
It’s a simple circlip that holds the sleeve (“Pivot Collar”, item#2) your recalcitrant bolt passes through:
I still think you should pull both forks and do a proper suspension fluid service after the anti-dive is repaired.
Also, didn’t we already establish that both front brake calipers should be rebuilt? Have the rotor bolt and possible rotor damage issues been resolved?
If all this is too daunting, and there’s no local STrider that can assist you, it’s probably time to have the ST trailered to a reputable mechanic. JMHO
John
It’s a simple circlip that holds the sleeve (“Pivot Collar”, item#2) your recalcitrant bolt passes through:
I still think you should pull both forks and do a proper suspension fluid service after the anti-dive is repaired.
Also, didn’t we already establish that both front brake calipers should be rebuilt? Have the rotor bolt and possible rotor damage issues been resolved?
If all this is too daunting, and there’s no local STrider that can assist you, it’s probably time to have the ST trailered to a reputable mechanic. JMHO
John
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Here is a Dropbox link to a manual for the 1100: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ys9os2aojtk7e6x/ST1100 Service Manual.pdf?dl=0
OP
OP
Thanks for all the suggestions, these are my thoughts regarding what I do (and what I realistically do not) want to accomplish:
- I want to be able to ascertain the parts I need to replace - some of the parts seem readily available, others (notably the anti-dive case) do not. This is so that in case I decide I can't fix it myself, it's a matter of getting someone to fix the bits I can't with the spares in hand, rather than leaving the bike with them for weeks waiting for parts to arrive.
- If I can do the easy (skill wise)/time consuming bits and have the motorcycle safely ridden to a mechanic to do things that are regular jobs for them but might be too complicated/risky for a first timer, that'd be perfect by me, so, eg, a full suspension service, if replacing the anti-dive doesn't need me to take off the fork/drain the right side which so far seems intact
- I am nervous about doing things that have potential for causing further damage, as I realistically lack the judgement to know how to minimize risk (eg something going wrong in the process of trying to remove that stripped stop ring)
- I do not realistically expect to be able to do the entire job myself
To answer some questions above:
I do have the Honda shop manual, that's what I was referring to, to determine how I remove the anti-dive assembly.
No oil leaks from any place other than the anti-dive case.
I have been able to confirm no cracks, chips or any noticeable damage to the rotor - just a superficial scuff mark where the bolt came off.
I have not removed the calipers yet to check for damage. From the sounds of it, that's the next thing I should attempt. Will check for stripped bolts first, and post photos from before/after.
- I want to be able to ascertain the parts I need to replace - some of the parts seem readily available, others (notably the anti-dive case) do not. This is so that in case I decide I can't fix it myself, it's a matter of getting someone to fix the bits I can't with the spares in hand, rather than leaving the bike with them for weeks waiting for parts to arrive.
- If I can do the easy (skill wise)/time consuming bits and have the motorcycle safely ridden to a mechanic to do things that are regular jobs for them but might be too complicated/risky for a first timer, that'd be perfect by me, so, eg, a full suspension service, if replacing the anti-dive doesn't need me to take off the fork/drain the right side which so far seems intact
- I am nervous about doing things that have potential for causing further damage, as I realistically lack the judgement to know how to minimize risk (eg something going wrong in the process of trying to remove that stripped stop ring)
- I do not realistically expect to be able to do the entire job myself
To answer some questions above:
I do have the Honda shop manual, that's what I was referring to, to determine how I remove the anti-dive assembly.
No oil leaks from any place other than the anti-dive case.
I have been able to confirm no cracks, chips or any noticeable damage to the rotor - just a superficial scuff mark where the bolt came off.
I have not removed the calipers yet to check for damage. From the sounds of it, that's the next thing I should attempt. Will check for stripped bolts first, and post photos from before/after.
John OoSTerhuis
Life Is Good!
I mentioned the calipers because they were sticking and clearly needed a proper fix: rebuild with corrosion removal and new seals. At this point I assumed no damage from the rotor bolt.
John
John
I think your approach is very sensible, but just wanted to clarify one thing in case you're confused about it. What is stripped out on your bike is not the stop ring, its a bolt that isn't shown in the anti-dive parts diagram. The bolt is a 5mm diameter hex (allen) drive head that goes through parts 2, 3, and 10. It goes in from the left side of the "Y" at the bottom of the caliper bracket and threads into the right side of the "Y" on the bracket.
see page 15-12 of the service manual, its item (5) on the left side caliper picture. The arrow coming from the top is the top caliper bolt, the arrow coming from the bottom is the lower bolt, which is the one that is stripped out on your bike. Also what I'm calling the "Y" for simplicity is actually called a clevis attachment, at least that's what they called it years ago, and you can see the upper clevis in the caliper picture. The lower clevis has a similar look but is much smaller.
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