ST1100 shifting techniques.

[huntingdog]

Hi guys.
As the weather is getting better I am going out and riding more and here are my thoughts.
I don't have many bad things to say about the ST1100, overall I think it is a great motorcyle, but one of the negative sides has to be shifting the transmission, sometimes it feels like a chore to me. Mostly talking about upshifts here, downshifts seem to go in better. I like to make my shifts as seamless as posible. Upshifts up until about 4k rpm can be done real smooth real easy in all gears, but once you start getting in the higher rpm range and when accelerating harder things get more complicated. 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd have to be the worst. Was passing a truck the other day and reved the engine up unitl about 7k rpm in 2nd, shifting to 3rd was done with grinding ( felt it in my foot true the gear leaver), gear went right in though. I have tried alot of different techniqes, shifting with faster foot movement, with slower foot movement, clutchless upshifts.. none of them are 100% smooth 100% of the time.
This maybe is the best way I have found so far. 1st to 2nd shift at max 4-4.5k rpm with slow foot movement + clutch. 2nd to 3rd engine rpm dependant but slower foot movement with clutch is again better. 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th with faster foot movement + clutch or clutchless for real fast upshifts but needs precise throtle hand movement.
The ST1100s engine has a lot of torque and doesn't require you to shift a lot, but sometimes I like to ride a little more sporty and shift more often to keep the engine turning at the optimal rpm, for me at least it also is a part of the joy of riding and engaging with the machine.
I don't have a lot of experience with many motorcycles, have riden around 10 in total for a more extensive period of time, but none of them have had so clunky and hard to shift smoothly transmissions. I am familiar with and have been shifthing clutchless very smoothly on almost all my bikes up until now. My ST1100 has about 70k kms on it and is in excelent shape in my eyes at least and I do tend to get picky. I don' think ( hope) that this isn't a problem with my bike but more like the nature of the beast of the model. Shift linkage has been maintained. Running 10W40 oil as per the manual.
On a positive note the ST is real easy to shift into neutral ( unlike my Aprilia Tuareg 350).
Have read that motorcycles with bigger engines have more clunky transmissions because they are more heavy built to handle the torqe ( like big cruisers and touring bikes), but I don't have experience with other such bikes and the St 1100 is my biggest most powerful bike to date.
Any thoughts and suggestions, what is your experiance?

 

[Upt' North]

They can be a bit agricultural at times although good motorcycle oil and practice helps.
There's little point in revving too hard, let the torque do the work.
It may help if you pre load the gear lever, take up the slack first, then shift when you're ready.
Good luck.
Upt.

 

[Larry Fine]

Thoughts, in no particular order:

Be sure you pull the clutch lever all the way. Heavy oil can make the clutch drag a bit.

Try "preloading" by already having some toe pressure on the shifter before you shift.

Perhaps lower the shifter a tad so it takes less foot travel to apply shifting pressure.

 

[Erdoc48]

I do notice smoother shifts with an oil change, and also after lubing up the shifter pivot points:

*** Mike Martin's ST1100 Maintenance Tips - Shifter Tune-Up***

koczarski.com

 

[huntingdog]

Agricultural.. I like that
I have been trying out the preloading of the shift lever, but doesn't seem to make a masive difference in my case.
The clutch drag due to oil viscosity is an interesting idea.
I will try a different brand of oil at my next oil change, just to see if it makes any difference.

 

[Sadlsor]

I find my 2008 1300 to be one of the slickest-shifting bikes I've ever owned, while at the same time being the largest displacement.
Preloading the shifter helps me make transparent / imperceptible gear changes, at somewhat higher rpm, but I barely pull the clutch, unlike Larry, above. I barely activate it at all, and certainly do NOT pull it all the way in while shifting. All I'm saying is, that's how *I* do it, and I'm not telling anyone how to shift or how to ride.
My goal is always to shift where even I cannot feel it, and consciously be as smooth as possible. I'm 80% successful, as I am doing a lot of eye / brain / hand / foot things as we all do, so shifting is never the only thing I'm thinking about, and in fact rarely think about the actual act of changing gears.
I haven't bother to review whether the transmissions were substantially changed from the 1100 to the 1300, like straight cut to helical, or anything of that nature. I just don't know.

 

[St-Gerard]

Question ,how much free play is in your throttle cables? I take almost all of it out , that way that slight close and reapply of throttle when up shift will match your Rpm to gear spacing.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I have had two ST1100's. I always found that they shifted very easily and very smoothly, and never had any problem with either of them. The only thing that I did sometimes was that in the higher RPM ranges when shifting from 1st to 2nd it was sometimes more precise if I released the tension on the shifter pedal in neutral and them reapplied the pressure to go in to second. That was only for the 1st to 2nd shift, and only at high RPM's.

Maybe have another look at the above shifter tune-up as well as the below article. Something might be off with yours.
ST1100 - Shift Linkage Tune-up

 

[St-Gerard]

How much Tupperware has to come off to lube the shift linkage?

 

[rwthomas1]

I had these issues, but my technique is now most similar to Saldsor. Preload shifter, blip throttle, clutch in about halfway and it just upshifts cleanly. Downshift takes a bit more clutch, thats about it. Once you figure it out its a non issue.

 

[huntingdog]

I find my 2008 1300 to be one of the slickest-shifting bikes I've ever owned, while at the same time being the largest displacement.
Preloading the shifter helps me make transparent / imperceptible gear changes, at somewhat higher rpm, but I barely pull the clutch, unlike Larry, above. I barely activate it at all, and certainly do NOT pull it all the way in while shifting. All I'm saying is, that's how *I* do it, and I'm not telling anyone how to shift or how to ride.
My goal is always to shift where even I cannot feel it, and consciously be as smooth as possible. I'm 80% successful, as I am doing a lot of eye / brain / hand / foot things as we all do, so shifting is never the only thing I'm thinking about, and in fact rarely think about the actual act of changing gears.
I haven't bother to review whether the transmissions were substantially changed from the 1100 to the 1300, like straight cut to helical, or anything of that nature. I just don't know.

Yes this is my goal in shifting also and I too usualy pull the cluth just a tiny bit to make shifts, have done so on all my bikes, that and full clutchless shifting. On the ST I do struggle however and have tryed pulling it all the way also, as the above suggestions but to little success. I feel like with the ST I have to use different techniques for each shift and each rpm range to do it smoothly and it is kind of a pain/ chore. Again this is only when riding more aggressively.

Question ,how much free play is in your throttle cables? I take almost all of it out , that way that slight close and reapply of throttle when up shift will match your Rpm to gear spacing.

Very little, just so that the rpms don't go up at full lock of the steering.

I have had two ST1100's. I always found that they shifted very easily and very smoothly, and never had any problem with either of them. The only thing that I did sometimes was that in the higher RPM ranges when shifting from 1st to 2nd it was sometimes more precise if I released the tension on the shifter pedal in neutral and them reapplied the pressure to go in to second. That was only for the 1st to 2nd shift, and only at high RPM's.

Maybe have another look at the above shifter tune-up as well as the below article. Something might be off with yours.
ST1100 - Shift Linkage Tune-up

This is exactly how I make my 1-2 shift, I just failed to explain it this good. Thanks for the link.

How much Tupperware has to come off to lube the shift linkage?

None. There is access from underneath the bike.

 

[Upt' North]

Yes this is my goal in shifting also and I too usualy pull the cluth just a tiny bit to make shifts, have done so on all my bikes, that and full clutchless shifting. On the ST I do struggle however and have tryed pulling it all the way also, as the above suggestions but to little success. I feel like with the ST I have to use different techniques for each shift and each rpm range to do it smoothly and it is kind of a pain/ chore. Again this is only when riding more aggressively.



Very little, just so that the rpms don't go up at full lock of the steering.



This is exactly how I make my 1-2 shift, I just failed to explain it this good. Thanks for the link.



None. There is access from underneath the bike.

The point made by @Erdoc48 is a good one. If you haven't already, take the linkage off and wash out the joints and lube.

 

[Upt' North]

Let's not make this an oil thread, .
But Motul semi synthetic always provided good results for me, the operating temps for you over there would be similar to England I would have thought.

 

[red one]

It can get a little notchy at times if I get in a hurry. I just make sure my shifts are more positive. I tried lubing my shifter it made a little difference but not much.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

If there is nothing wrong with the shifter linkage, then back to the basics before you look for the hard/expensive stuff.
- Flush and bleed the hydraulic system.
- Check the clutch lever pivot, pivot bolt, pivot bushing and push rod.
- If the above needs attention- Clutch Lever Parts Replacement.
- Check to make sure that the clutch slave cylinder is functioning properly. ST1300 - Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement.

 

[jfheath]

Poke the little drain hole at the botom of the circular slave housing at the front of the crank case.
Bleed the clutch to make sure that there is absolutely no air in there.
Check your clutch lever - remove the lever and check out the condition of the brass bush. It has a hole in it. They can wear out, and wear through - which reduces the ability of the lever to press in the master cylinder piston. Make sure that the push rod goes inside the hole when you reassemble. (You cannot see it, so mark the top of the bush to show you where the hole is)

You should start to feel resistance at the lever almost as soon as you start to pull it in. If you don't it is either air, or the seals in eithe the master cyclinder or the slave cylinder have turned to goo.

 

[RichKat]

Personally, every big Honda I have owned, seemed to have a clunky transmission, my Suzuki GS-1100 was like butter compared with them

 

[ST1100Y]

Not mentioned yet: check and replace those rear wheel hub dampers...
The slag will mess up shifting when those are worn...

 

[huntingdog]

All good points.
I have changed the fluid and bled the hydraulic clutch. My clutch operates as follows: only the last 10% of the clutch lever travel is where the clutch actually engages/disengages, so really it needs to be pressed just a little bit. With that said it is very progresive and you can effortlessly feel the engagement point and make a smooth start, or slow speed maneuvering. As far as I know this is normal ST1100 clutch operation.
Shifter linkage was cleaned and lubed while on the bike. It moves freely as far as I can tell, but I may take it out and inspect it more thoroughly, just in case. After that an oil change, although the oil in her atm has done just 2k kms.
The cush dampers where in OK condition I do have a bit of play in the rear wheel when on the center stand and in gear, but I think it is within the normal range.

 

[huntingdog]

Reading the shifter linkage write-up something seems strange to me. The " No recalibration of the linkage is needed " part. How is this posible? The splines are a part of the shifter hight tuneup and can be mounted in lots of different positions right? Here is how mine look like.