ST1300 Clutch bearing gone??

[shands]

Hiya guys,

Just wanted to see if anyone has seen behaviour like this before before I go stripping everything down and disturbing gaskets/draining fluids/etc unnecessarily.

2005 ST1300 with 72k on the clock. Occasionally, when slowing down to a stop (clutch in, and down through the gears to 1st) - there's a horrible (and I mean embarrassingly so) grinding noise (almost like there was no pad left on the brakes. Discount that one though - as they were replaced a couple of weeks ago). The pitch drops with the speed (depending on the gear)

In third gear at 30mph with the clutch in - you can hear a slight rumble/chatter, but noticeable. 2nd gear at 15/20mph - it's very noticeable. In 1st gear <10mph - it is loud!!

Pulling off, with the clutch biting - it's no where near as bad (only a slight murmur). With the clutch released entirely - nothing. At speed - also nothing.

When it happens (as I say, it doesn't happen all the time) rev'ing the engine with the clutch pulled in, the noise 'pitch' doesn't change - which makes me think that it's not engine related.

Looking at the diagrams, namely this one here, my money's on part #23 - the bearing under the pressure plate. Has anyone had/heard of anything like this at all?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Mellow]

Have you checked your wheel bearings? Sometimes, it's the more basic simple issues.

 

[Igofar]

Hiya guys,

Just wanted to see if anyone has seen behaviour like this before before I go stripping everything down and disturbing gaskets/draining fluids/etc unnecessarily.

2005 ST1300 with 72k on the clock. Occasionally, when slowing down to a stop (clutch in, and down through the gears to 1st) - there's a horrible (and I mean embarrassingly so) grinding noise (almost like there was no pad left on the brakes. Discount that one though - as they were replaced a couple of weeks ago). The pitch drops with the speed (depending on the gear)

In third gear at 30mph with the clutch in - you can hear a slight rumble/chatter, but noticeable. 2nd gear at 15/20mph - it's very noticeable. In 1st gear <10mph - it is loud!!

Pulling off, with the clutch biting - it's no where near as bad (only a slight murmur). With the clutch released entirely - nothing. At speed - also nothing.

When it happens (as I say, it doesn't happen all the time) rev'ing the engine with the clutch pulled in, the noise 'pitch' doesn't change - which makes me think that it's not engine related.

Looking at the diagrams, namely this one here, my money's on part #23 - the bearing under the pressure plate. Has anyone had/heard of anything like this at all?

Thanks in advance!

When was the last time you flushed your clutch system?

 

[shands]

I've only had the 13 a couple of weeks and there are a few(!) things left to do. The cursed rotten wire from the right knock sensor, clutch & brake flush and resolve whatever this is.

Wheel bearings though (front & back) have been done - good suggestion though, thanks Mellow. As you say, good to start with the simple stuff! Just to rule out a bad batch: At the same speed (say 10mph) kicking from 2nd gear to 1st gear will give different sounds (higher 'note' as the gears get lower)

Hydraulics (as far as the clutch goes) I wouldn't have thought would be able to make this sound? (it really is a metal on metal grinding - like really gritty bearings). Please correct me if I'm wrong (I've not become as well 'acquainted' with this machine as I was the 11) but I thought the lubrication for the clutch is taken from the engine oil and that the hydraulics is just the 'regular' isolated master/slave setup?

Ta!

 

[acedantinne]

Place bike on center stand. check & spin rear wheel? noise? check spline, proper lube there i hope, moly 60,spline bearings, ok, u-joint. The way u explain makes me think u-joint. noise changes with speed & gear changes.
Check bike on center stand with engine running in gear, listen. Use a ear type probe.

 

[BakerBoy]

I'm in the "simple stuff first" camp as well, and while it may be the clutch bearing you've highlighted, that would be the first I can recall reading about on this forum. AceD has some good suggestions in the above post. I'd also remove both wheels and recheck all the bearing positions, seals, and collars. You're sure it's not a brake pad dragging?

 

[Tom Mac 04a]

I'm thinking flange bearing!? Easy to check.

 

[shands]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys - I'll be working through the lot on Sunday afternoon. Cheers

 

[wjbertrand]

I wonder if the lash adjustment on the counter balancer gears needs snugging up? If it's too loose it will make a grumbly, rattling noise and it's also located at the front of the engine near the clutch.

 

[Igofar]

throttle bodies out of sync can also make a grumbly, rattling noise and make the engine idle/run poorly.
....I just wanted to use the word "grumbly" too.

 

[shands]

[-]Ok. Got a bit further on this, I might be tempting fate in these early days - and I still really can't believe this has cured the symptoms - but here goes.

A couple of nights ago before setting off on it's first 'real' ride out, I checked the oil level (I know - rather lax on my part only just doing it now - but this was presumably changed along with the filter by the seller when I bought it). It was overfilled, by a LONG way (I dropped about a pint before it hit the 'MAX' marker), and was black. Not particularly too thin or thick - but looked like it'd been in there a while. So I dropped the rest out, replaced with nice fresh oil and changed the filter.

Magically, since doing this, the noise (which, incidentally, only happened when it got warm) has gone away! 150 miles were covered that day - no problems at all. Cold/hot - no worries.

The thing that's going to eat me up now though is what the bl**dy hell was making that noise? I know all about the Pan-whine/mambo (and must say, sad as it may be, quite like it) - but the noise described above is no exaggeration.

It's still going to get torn down this weekend anyway as there are still a load of things I need to get done with the new girl.

Thanks again for your help guys![/-]

 

[shands]

Well, I knew it was too good to be true..
Went out today on a long run to re-locate the British tag and the noise is back. Daily short journeys (between the last post & now) haven't been a problem (about 10 mile - but still enough to get warmed up)

I'll see how she behaves tomorrow, but I think this weekend is definitely going to be clutch teardown time and to work through the suggestions.

 

[Rubberdarts]

I am interested in your diagnosis as I recently noticed a high oil level. Did not experience the engine noise but did notice a decrease in fuel milage and it seemed like a loss of power. What I did take out was jet black, I have not ridden since as work gets in the way of my riding pleasure. I run synthetic and do them myself, changed at beginning of the season started up let run a bit then let it cool down and checked site glass and level was fine, so it does have me wondering. I will do the same and change it out. Then ride and see from there.

 

[shands]

Ok.. slightly further on, but still at a loss..

Oil level was definitely a red herring.

I've flushed the clutch hydraulic system as suggested by Igofar - colour was slightly cloudy, but not too bad - no joy there unfortunately.

Interestingly, when coming to a stop and it's happening - letting the clutch out stops the noise. In a related thread, wjbertrand quite rightly pointed out that when the clutch is pulled in - the plates are separated, (so, too loose and there's potential for basket rattle or maybe knackered/incorrectly torqued springs, etc?? Anyone had this?)

Looking at a picture in an attachment on another thread the bearing appears in the middle of the pressure plate - but it looks pretty heavy duty, still might be one for checking though?

Finally, it's also intermittently happening whilst stationary in neutral with the clutch in. Hopefully, this'll rule out end drive or gearbox ))

Edit: One thing I've not mentioned is that is an ex-Driving Standards machine with 70k very hard miles under it's belt (all at low speed whilst following learners). Wear/symptoms may be out of character for the ST, but it's had a hard life!

 

[shands]

Right - today's the day it got stripped down and there were two problems:

First was the bearing that's embedded on the pressure plate (part #23 in this microfiche) - worn. Really worn! Worn to the point where there's not only a load of play in the bearing itself, but also where it'll occasionally snag and drag the inside ring round with it (in this case, also the collar or 'clutch joint piece' - part #11 in the diagram). If I get a chance - I'll upload a video to YouTube. I guess it's working life has taken it's toll on this. For anyone else undertaking clutch work - as it's a cheap part anyway - definitely one to replace as a matter of course!

Second was a bit of a ball kicker. The previous owner had replaced the clutch plates - but reassembled it incorrectly (possibly by Honda - as the service book is full of Honda service stamps and it's an ex-government bike). As in the pic, the last part in the basket isn't a friction plate (as in the microfiche above) but a metal plate instead. I'm guessing that as the clutch was pulled it, this plate would've been rubbing against the pressure plate - creating the noise.

Spinning the rear wheel with it in gear and all of the plates removed - no noise, no rattles - just nice!

For anyone else undertaking (any) clutch work, I found it surprisingly straight-forward. No need to remove the front tyre or drain the engine oil. Kudos to Alan (wherever you are pal, R.I.P, very sad to hear of your passing) for his amazing write-up which made things a whole lot easier - located here. As for the bill of materials? Clutch cover gasket, bearing, and maybe one of the metal plates.

 

[BakerBoy]

Good work!

PS. Does wifey know you got oil on the carpet?!

 

[shands]

Haha - well spotted!

But, no wifey to speak of anymore (perhaps oily carpets had something to do with it?!)

 

[RONST1300]

Sorry, I was a little late..... glad you on the way back with it.
Ron

 

[CDNolddude]

know this is an old thread but what would cause the clutch bearing (mentioned in the thread) to go?
know a guy who has an 04 st13 with approx 20k miles and that bearing was toast on a trip last year and had to be replaced. Rest of the clutch parts were fine.. OLD clutch fluid?

 

[dduelin]

A clutch lifter bearing (throw out bearing) failure at 20k would be a defective bearing my guess. Clutch fluid and clutch operation would would have no direct correlation to the life of that bearing. It only wears when the clutch is disengaged. If the clutch did not disengage for whatever reason (fluid leak, master or slave cylinder wear, air/moisture in fluid) theoretically there would be no wear on the bearing.