Texans, Notice! hard freeze due Thur 22nd !

OP
OP
core-aggie
Joined
Jun 28, 2022
Messages
689
Location
Texas
.
That pipe insulation typically has an R value of 4 or 5 and will NOT prevent pipes from freezing in a protracted cold snap. It will delay the inevitable, especially if there is a heat source at one end of the copper pipe (connection to a traditional hot water tank).
That's us ... two pipes rising up from attic floor to water heater (feed and delivery) ... actually two water heaters in attic ...

So you're saying even though I insulated those last week, we might experience burst pipes again ??


Been dripping 90% of our faucets in house and barn apartment since last night (non stop) ... will continue till freeze is done

1671833154518.png
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
8,196
Location
Cleveland
Bike
2010 ST1300
So you're saying even though I insulated those last week, we might experience burst pipes again ??
Yes. It will depend on how cold it gets and for how long. Insulation simply slows the movement of heat (or transfer of energy) from the hot side toward the cold side. If it were perfect, and stopped all transfer of heat, you would not need air conditioning until activity inside the house warmed it up to uncomfortable temps.

Insulation is rated in R units and is the inverse of thermal conductivity (k). R = 1/k where k can be btu/unit time.

Copper is a good conductor of heat and electricity, and the heat from the hot water tank will travel up the hot pipe (and to a lesser extent, up the cold pipe, but not as far). Your insulation will slow the heat loss, permitting that heat to travel farther. Letting the water run will bring heat (warm water) through the pipes and prevent the hot pipe from freezing. That running water through the cold pipe will tend to keep the pipe at roughly 55ºF (underground water temp), but if it gets cold enough in your attic for long enough, the water in the pipe may freeze.

My mother's house had the kitchen water pipes run from the basement, through an outside wall into a masonry shed attached to the house, then up through the ceiling into the wall behind the kitchen sink. This shed was on the west side of the house, and cold winds blew toward the house. We tried everything, insulation (wool, fiberglass, foam), heat tapes - every brand, weather stripping the shed, etc, but still had a frozen pipe roughly every three years. This was back in the 1950's - 80's, before really good heat tracing cables became available. The first time the pipes freeze you might be lucky with soft copper - the second time they split.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
1,059
Age
63
Location
Coquitlam British Columbia Canada
Bike
2009 ST1300
You could take a thermometer and measure your cold water temperature; this will be the temperature of the water supplied to your heater. Peridically measure your water trickle, if it starts getting close to 33 open it a bit further until it settles a bit higher and your insulation will determine the rest. That is your source water temperature. If you're trickling downstream of your heater, your heater entering water temperature might be about as cold, but you don't get to know that, so give that an equal trickle rate and periodic flush even though it's coming out hot.
Ours [lower mainland] varies not much between summer and the coldest winter periods between about 45 and 39. 39 used to be a big problem for some ice machines.
 
OP
OP
core-aggie
Joined
Jun 28, 2022
Messages
689
Location
Texas
Good possibility. Though I’ve never seen plumbing in an attic.
Not uncommon here ... all homes I've had are like this. (this one built in late '70s). All the pipes run horizontally along the floor of the attic - they only "rise" to feed/deliver the water heaters.

One son I have who's in North Carolina (spoke to today) says all their pipes are under the house.
 
OP
OP
core-aggie
Joined
Jun 28, 2022
Messages
689
Location
Texas
You could take a thermometer and measure your cold water temperature; this will be the temperature of the water supplied to your heater. Peridically measure your water trickle, if it starts getting close to 33 open it a bit further until it settles a bit higher and your insulation will determine the rest. That is your source water temperature. If you're trickling downstream of your heater, your heater entering water temperature might be about as cold, but you don't get to know that, so give that an equal trickle rate and periodic flush even though it's coming out hot.
Ours [lower mainland] varies not much between summer and the coldest winter periods between about 45 and 39. 39 used to be a big problem for some ice machines.
Good idea about temp measurement !

Have 3-4 Thermapen instant read thermos (used for BBQing and such) I'll use to go check on water - they give an accurate reading within two seconds.

Have water dribbling at almost every sink in the house and barn apartment, both cold and hot sides dripping.

Every three or so hours (when sub-freezing), turn on both faucets to a tub or shower full speed for five minutes, thinking that'll help keep the lines clear.
 
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
1,059
Age
63
Location
Coquitlam British Columbia Canada
Bike
2009 ST1300
Also don't forget any toilets or fixtures sitting in cold areas, some of the older buildings in Richmond we work on with open grade level carports have the first level traps encased in plywood / mineral wool boxes, they're all pretty old so I don't think our plumbers have had any freeze ups. This can lead all sorts of problems [see attached photo].
 

Attachments

OP
OP
core-aggie
Joined
Jun 28, 2022
Messages
689
Location
Texas
Well, one more night of sub-zero temps and we're done.

Talked to my next door neighbor (organic farmer) about an hour ago ... he had a pipe burst on Fri, which flooded his kitchen. Unfortunately, he was out delivering veggie packages, so wasn't there to turn the well pump off and close supply pipes.

A recovery crew was there removing all the cabinets.
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
596
Age
65
Location
Rhome Texas
Bike
2011 ST_1300 PA
STOC #
9102
Well, one more night of sub-zero temps and we're done.

Talked to my next door neighbor (organic farmer) about an hour ago ... he had a pipe burst on Fri, which flooded his kitchen. Unfortunately, he was out delivering veggie packages, so wasn't there to turn the well pump off and close supply pipes.

A recovery crew was there removing all the cabinets.
Crap, that sucks, we got lucky, had one of three outside hose bibs freeze, but luckily didn't break
So glad it's almost over
 
OP
OP
core-aggie
Joined
Jun 28, 2022
Messages
689
Location
Texas
Well, one more night of sub-zero temps and we're done.

Talked to my next door neighbor (organic farmer) about an hour ago ... he had a pipe burst on Fri, which flooded his kitchen.
Crap, that sucks, we got lucky, had one of three outside hose bibs freeze, but luckily didn't break
So glad it's almost over
Well, I probably suffered a "mild" burst pipe (if there is such a thing).

I'm 80% confident it's related to the in-ground sprinkler system. But, I'M CONFUSED!

Check the photo - that puddle of water appeared yesterday ... it is in close proximity to a sprinkler head that juts up out of the ground , to the left of the photo where the greenery is.

Here's what confusing. First off, I've had the in-ground sprinkler system pump unplugged for 3-4 months (not sure where the water shut off is for the system). Within 2 hours after seeing the puddle, it dried up. Then, maybe 4-8 hours later, the puddle shows up again ... then after 2 hours, there's no puddle - ad nauseam

1672256407146.png
.
.
... freeze is done
.
1672256471836.png
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
471
Location
Seattle
Bike
2016 FJR1300 ES
My "freeze proof" outside hose bib froze and split. Fortunately only an issue when I turn it on, so I have ordered a new bib and very little water inside the wall. I think the problem is with the backflow preventer, which didn't release the water inside the bib the last time I used it...now off to check my other two outside bibs...
 

Jethro

R.I.P. - 2023/10/20
Rest In Peace
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
781
Location
Marmora,Ontario, Canada
Bike
2006 st1300
This is a once in every year event. I’d be doing some major re-work this year when weather permits .
 
Top Bottom