Throttle problem

[ccryder]

BBY no replacement on the fuel filter, I forgot to order it when I ordered my other goodies (Silly Neil!).

I got all my goodies in yesterday and left town today . Saturday the Dealer is installing new plug caps. I'll get a chance to try them out on the ride home. I think I'll have him put some new plugs in while he is putting the caps on.

I bought spares of the 5 way and 3 way vacuum connectors and vacuum line. If anyone needs them just drop me a line. For the price I can't see just ordering one of each.

So Sunday morning I'll start the teardown and replacement of the v-lines and fittings. Rob or, anybody, anything special I should look for when I'm in there replacing these goodies?

Time4Sleep
Neil S.

 

[ccryder]

I like to do the one step at a time also. But, with the vacuum lines on the t-bodies I'm not about to change one and button it up and ride, then wait an hour or so and tear it down. Other than the v-lines and fittings that's what I do too.

Tonight I'll try and change the plugs b4 I go to the Dealer for the plug cap replacement.

Time4Dinner
Neil S.

 

[Rob Hephner]

Neil,

You seem to be spot on with what is going on. You are looking for vacuum leaks, so start her up and feel around. If anything you touch creates a difference in how the bike runs you have found a potential problem.

 

[ccryder]

25Aug07 Update:
Dealer changed plugs and plug caps and guess what................... It made NO difference! In less than 40 miles Indigo acted up. I nursed her home. The SM now wants to check the exhaust gas and then maybe replace the fuel pump or?? He is grasping at solutions. He needs it when it is acting up and I told him he will have to have someone ride it until it does act up. Not just 10 miles or so but somewhere between 25 and 50 miles at 90-95 deg. I asked about coil packs and he said that he had not seen a bad one in over 5 years.

I just got back after a 3 hour cool down and in 25 miles she was acting up again (100deg indicated). I was trying to run down the fuel level, to remove the main tank so, at least I accomplished that. I actually ran 17 miles after the last bar started flashing so it should be well below the main tank (I hate spilling gas around the garage).

Tomorrow I'll pull the tank, pull the airbox and, start looking for vacuum issues. BTW I have some stubborn airbox screws that might need to be drilled out but, I have replacements and, the tools to get them out.

Rob, when you were diagnosing your issues did you run the ST with the main tank removed or just raised?

Time4Dinner
Neil S.

 

[Mark]

Neil,

Rob had his raised when we were testing.

Mark

 

[ccryder]

Mark:

Thanks. What did you really find, cracked fitting(s), dry rotted/ cracked hose?

BBY, I've got one on order with the associated gaskets, etc. Since it's not in, I'll try the vacuum lines.

Time2Sleep or, at least relax
Neil S.

 

[Mark]

Rob's was a vacuum leak in the vacuum cannister.

That's why I have been betting on a vacuum problem on yours... before you start swapping you might try spraying wd-40 around the fittings to see if you get an rpm (engine sound) change...

Mark

 

[Rob Hephner]

Neil,

Mark keeps beating me to the posts, so I have not chimed in.

I did test the bike without the top tank in place as well. Make sure you have the white sensor from the top of the air box plug in when you run the bike or you risk throwing a code.

Also, pulling vacuum lines off and then putting them back on as the bike runs can help you understand what is going on.

 

[ccryder]

Thx all, I'll play in the AM.

Neil

 

[ccryder]

26Aug Update:

• I tried the WD-40 to see if there were any vacuum leaks and nothing showed up.
• I checked the ports for the fast idle and they were all sucking the same and the engine slowed down when I put my finger over them. This seems to show that they were working properly.
• Looked and felt around to see if the boots for the TB were seated, seems ok.
• Wiped off any dirt build up, I was surprised that there really was not too much dirt and such on the mechanisims on the TB.
• Replaced all 3.5mm vacuum lines and the 2-way and 5-way fittings. There is another 5-way fitting P/N 16180-ME5-761. This has four 3.5mm fittings and one much larger. Since I didn't order this one I just replaced the 3.5mm v-lines.
• While I was down in this area I adjusted the throttle cable slack and readjusted the twist grip adjuster.

After triple checking everything I buttoned her up and took her for a ride. She seemed to start better and was smoother. So far so good. After 40 miles I was feeling pretty good. 60 miles came and went and I was getting a big head. Right at 80 miles I felt a little hesitation on the highway and then she started to act up, again. Dam! The ambient air temp was only 94 today so, that's may be why she took 80 miles to act up today and only 24-30 miles yesterday at 103f.

So it's back to the Dealer and let them try again to diagnose Indigo. They won't be happy since it can take anywhere from 30-80 miles for her to act up. If they are willing to swap some parts I would be willing to ride her until she acts up or, maybe if they got the offfending part, she would be cured.

I'll talk with the SM and see what we can work out.

Time4Sleep
Neil S.

Thank you Rob for your consulting this morning.

 

[Rob Hephner]

Neil,

Have you noticed any change of coolant level, or are you getting any air bubbles in your overflow tank?

 

[ccryder]

Nope, haven't checked. Maybe a blown head gasket or, a warped head? Hmm, I'll check.

Neil S.

 

[Rob Hephner]

The real way to test it would be to check at the radiator cap. The overflow tank may never show the problem, but if you have foaming or bubbles at the cap location as the bike comes to temp.....

Add distilled water to the point that you can see it and then let the bike run.

 

[ccryder]

One of the Riders from MSN ST site had this take on my problem. What does the collective think??
Thx
Neil


From: Bill65633
Message 6 in Discussion

After viewing the video, my best guess for the moment is a MAP Sensor
problem. The engine surges like that if you start the engine with the
vacuum disconnected from the MAP Sensor. But the EMC reports the error
via FI lamp blinking 2 short flashes, reporting MAP Sensor loss or
poor connection of vacuum line to the sensor. It is my impression that
the EMC diagnostic testing is only during the first few seconds the
engine is running. Because the surging stops after about 3-4 seconds. The
EMC has a roll back capability to run without the MAP sensor signal
present. I believe the roll back mode can only be entered during initial
startup testing. If the MAP sensor's output starts failing while the EMC
is using it's output, I would expect the surging condition to occur. I
would replace the MAP Sensor, then look for a signal wire problem;
reseat the Gray 14 pin connector that transfers the MAP signal between
harness sections, reseat cable connectors at the EMC and ohm the signal
wire (Lg/W) that delivers the map sensor output to the EMC, between the
MAP Sensor connector and the EMC. Regards, Bill

 

[Rob Hephner]

There is a test in the service manual for the MAP sensor.

It either passes or it fails.

Oh and the next step is to swap the ECM to see if the problem persists....

 

[ccryder]

Rob:
Since I moved I have not been able to find my SM. Can you give me a brief on the test for the MAP?

Not knowing enough about MAP sensors, I don't know if they could be affected by heat. We do know they are in one really HOT area! If disconnecting the v-line mimicks my condition then, we might have found one possible cause. I did replace that v-line last weekend.

I have my ECM out being checked out on the West coast. I'll probably have it back by mid week. It is being tested on the road in an ST. It was 100deg out there yesterday and they ran about 50 miles. Traffic cut the ride shorter, and we didn't want to cook our tester sitting in traffic.

Time2Work
Neil S.

 

[panman40]

I'm no expert but it sounds to me like a duff coil when good and hot especially if runs ok again when stopped to cool off for a bit

 

[panman40]

Or possibly a fuel tank venting problem, have you tried opening the fuel cap when it's playing up

 

[ccryder]

Panman40:

I tried the opening the fuel tank and it made no difference. My SM at the Dealer says they have not seen a bad coil on a Honda in over 5 years. They have checked a number but no failures.

Neil S.

 

[esteeryder]

Been following this thread with much interest. I'm in the Porsche club and there have been instances of late model 911 owners messing up their MAP sensors with the oil from the K&N filter. It accumulates over time (or in some cases very quickly if the filter was really over-oiled) and apparently, once fouled, they don't respond to cleaning and have to be replaced.

However, there are several spray type solvents for this kind of problem that you spray in to the intake tract as the engine is running, might be worth a try. Someone chime in if this is not practical.