( UPDATE: Turned out to be a coolant leak ) Oil leak after riding ( with pictures )

[HondaInTheSun]

If your looking to snug them up and not wanting to get into the work involved in removing the throttle bodies, this may be your answer... much less work. If I'm mistaken, I'll apologize now Dave.

Now THIS, I would be interested in...it won't be the first time @dduelin has been a great help to me.

Also, I'm wondering if you can attach a new length of hose to the overflow hose and pull the old one out while pulling a new one in. Has anyone tried this? Your overflow hose could have a hole in it

Where do I find the overflow hose?

Also, just went to start the bike again after allowing it to cool down from this morning's ride. Within a few minutes I spotted a drop of coolant coming out of the round weep hole this time... < scratches head >

 

[Kevin_56]

Late to the party. Removing the radiator is not that big of a deal now that you have the body panels off. After the radiator is off, there is a brace to remove so you can see the thermostat. This is a good place to tighten hoses that may be your leak. Until you or have someone do this, your leak will not go away on its own. I had the same issue years ago and tightening the ones near the stat, fixed my leak. Keep up the good work.

Kevin

 

[SMSW]

I said earlier that I backed off some procedures because they were bigger jobs than I wanted to tackle. One of those was going in from the top, as @CYYJ suggested. Quite frankly, I thought pulling the tank, air box, and throttle bodies was more of a job than I wanted to do (50 years ago I tore down a car engine to the last nut and bolt and reassembled it, for about 25 or 30 years I did all the maintenance on our cars and my work trucks - so I'm not a newby to things mechanical and I have a rather extensive collection of tools, (including a factory wheel puller for Volvo 122's). At this point in my life, I would simply rather do other things, and complete other projects than work on my mc for hours and hours. This is why, as I've said before, I am proactive in my approach to things mechanical. I want to do maintenance on MY schedule rather than squeeze the last few miles out of say brake pads and have to pull the calipers in the middle of our limited riding season.

While getting to the stat housing is possible from the front, it is relatively easy and gives you access to change the clamps as @dduelin and @Bmacleod have suggested without pulling the t-bodies. In fact, when I was preparing to change my t-stat due to it sticking, I bought all of the hoses possible - if I was going to go in there I was going to make as much of it new as possible. I ended up going in from the front and only changed the clamps and large accessible hoses. That, and a new stat + o-ring solved my problem. This is why I was suggesting you take the easy (to me) route.

For more reasons to leave the T-bods alone, read @SupraSabre's account of using a pry bar to get them free of the rubber snorkles, or someone else's description of prying them loose with a long 2 x 4 across the frame. Besides, if you pull the T-bods, you might as well rebalance them and that requires yet another (expensiveish) tool.

 

[HondaInTheSun]

Thanks @Kevin_56 and @SMSW !

I think I’d be up for removing the radiator and the brace ( not sure where that part is ), but now I’m second guessing that being useful...I just restarted the bike again and was able to reproduce a drip of coolant coming out of the small round weep hole. If I understand correctly, tightening the hose clamps behind the radiator won’t resolve the leak if it’s coming out of the round weep hole? And that the coolant coming out of that hole indicates a different issue?

Getting confused at this point.

 

[Igofar]

Standing by the

 

[dduelin]

Thanks @Kevin_56 and @SMSW !

I think I’d be up for removing the radiator and the brace ( not sure where that part is ), but now I’m second guessing that being useful...I just restarted the bike again and was able to reproduce a drip of coolant coming out of the small round weep hole. If I understand correctly, tightening the hose clamps behind the radiator won’t resolve the leak if it’s coming out of the round weep hole? And that the coolant coming out of that hole indicates a different issue?

Getting confused at this point.

Send me an email address and I'll send you a step by step tutorial to remove the radiator and access the thermostat housing and the hoses to it and behind it. Normally one can access all the clamps that usually leak this route. It's easy. The tutorial is for a coolant and/or thermostat change, pdf format.

 

[Lonewoof]

@HondaInTheSun lmk if you need a pair of hands to do this work. I haven't done a lot of work on motorcycles but I'm a quick learner and if dduelin has instructions that we can follow I should be able to help. I'm in the Bay area so pretty local. Professional Jack of all all trades.

 

[Lonewoof]

@HondaInTheSun lmk if you need a pair of hands to do this work. I haven't done a lot of work on motorcycles but I'm a quick learner and if dduelin has instructions that we can follow I should be able to help. I'm in the Bay area so pretty local. Professional Jack of all all trades.

The other solution is to go to a motorcycle shop. I've had good experiences with Santa Clara cycles

 

[CYYJ]

I think I’d be up for removing the radiator and the brace ( not sure where that part is )...

Below are two pictures showing the brace, which is a very easy part to remove - just two bolts. The upper picture shows the brace in place, the lower picture shows the thermostat and hoses that you can see with the brace removed.

As for your concerns about round hole / square hole leakage, you know you have leakage from up in the V - the photos you posted in post #14 prove that. It's possible that you might have coolant coming out of the round hole, but then again, a single observation of a drop of coolant is not enough data to draw conclusions from.

Michael

Brace

 

[HondaInTheSun]

Thanks, EVERYONE for the help and advice, it is always appreciated! I now have the info I need to tackle this one, between the tutorial @dduelin provided, @CYYJ s and @SMSW s endless kind patience, and a thoroughly enjoyable chat on the White Courtesy Phone with @Igofar , I know have the confidence I need to press on with the job.

I've ordered the parts that I'll replace "while I'm in there" per Larry's recommendation and will check-in back here once I'm underway to give you all an update - parts should be here in a week or so.

GASKET, WATER PUMP
Item #19226-MCS-A10

JOINT, FUEL TUBE
Item #16961-MK7-000

THERMOSTAT
Item #19300-MBT-003

O-RING (43.5X2)
Item #91361-MCS-A10

Thank you all again, what a wonderful group of people.

 

[CYYJ]

You might find that it is a lot easier to do all that work at the front of the engine if you remove the front wheel from the motorcycle, and support the front of the motorcycle by putting a wooden block underneath the engine (see photo below).

This is entirely optional. You're pretty young (45), hence it's safe to assume you can cope with crouching, etc. more easily than those of us who have reached pensionable age. When I did all the work on the front of my bike, I elected to take the front wheel off only because it made access to the front of the engine easier. In particular, it made it a lot easier to do the radiator removal and re-installation.

Lastly - this is very important - DO NOT OVERTORQUE the bands that hold the hoses onto the two large pipes that carry coolant into and out of the radiator! The torque specification for these bands is extremely low. If you are not aware of this, it is very easy to continue to tighten the bands using nothing more than finger pressure and completely crush the two very thin pipe stubs on the radiator. Once this happens, it's not repairable, you need to buy a new radiator - a very expensive purchase.

Michael

 

[HondaInTheSun]

Thanks for the tips @CYYJ ! I made it a little further today and stopped short of removing the pump cover, I thought it would pop right off, but apparently not. I didn’t want to force anything so will wait until I hear about how to get this off safely.

 

[caldercay]

so will wait until I hear

To start with, I'd remove the cover bracket over the thermostat housing (two bolts) colored in yellow. Then loosen up the hose clamps in blue.

 

[CYYJ]

...stopped short of removing the pump cover, I thought it would pop right off, but apparently not.

In theory, it should "pop off". But in reality, there are a few time and wear related things that will prevent it from falling off once you remove the last fastener.

One is the adhesion between the old gasket (the one that looks like a gigantic O-ring) and the metal surfaces. Another is that unlike a typical connection of two metal parts, there is at least one small tubular piece that fits into either side of the assembly (water pump & front crankcase cover) to keep the two parts precisely aligned and prevent any side to side movement. You can see it at the end of the arrow in the picture below. We'll need to check with Larry (@Igofar ) to find out if there is only the one shown in the picture, or if perhaps there is a second one somewhere (not shown in the picture) that remained attached to the water pump cover when I removed it.

Best suggestion I can offer is to take a large flat-blade screwdriver, stuff it into the long vertical gap on the right side of the water pump cover - between the water pump cover and the front crankcase cover - and very gently wiggle the screwdriver in an attempt to move the water pump cover forward (not sideways). Second best suggestion I can offer is to tap the upper left corner of the water pump cover with a rubber mallet, or by placing a block of wood against it and tapping the block of wood with a hammer.

What both of the above actions try to achieve is to move the water pump cover directly forward (again, not sideways, because of that little tube at the end of the arrow) and break the adhesion between the old rubber gasket and the two metal castings.

Lastly, take a close look at the picture below, note all of the fastener holes, and double-check to make sure you removed every fastener. It's easy to overlook one fastener that might still be in place holding the cover on, especially if you have not done the job before.

Michael

Watch out for this little tube, which is there to prevent sideways movement

 

[HondaInTheSun]

Thanks for the tips @CYYJ ! I was able to eventually get this by soaking the joins with penetrating oil, then using the block of wood plus hammer solution.

For the record @Igofar said to avoid a screwdriver for fear of damaging the aluminum, just in case anyone else is considering doing this.

Pics attached of the removed cover. I did get quite a bit of coolant leak out when the cover came off...

 

[caldercay]

For the record @Igofar said to avoid a screwdriver for fear of damaging the aluminum

Yea, I'd be fearful to use a screwdriver too - not wide enough...so when you torque it, it'll dig into the opposing pieces, because the torque is applied "centrally".

I prefer to use one of my Craftsman "gasket scrapers" - they range in width from 1/4 inch to one inch.

They have a very thin blade... and using, let's say the one inch version, provides enough leverage, with minimal effort, and zero damage to the delicate metal. The key is to use a wide blade, so the torque is applied (distributed) across a wide distance.

 

[SMSW]

That cylindrical pin that Michael mentioned is called a dowel in the shop manual. When you clean the mating surfaces, be very careful if you use a metal scraper or razor blade. It is easy to damage the soft aluminum and easier to slice your finger. One of the gasket removers, which are poorly named (gasket softener is a better name) can be allowed to soak in before you attack it with the scraper.

 

[Igofar]

In theory, it should "pop off". But in reality, there are a few time and wear related things that will prevent it from falling off once you remove the last fastener.

One is the adhesion between the old gasket (the one that looks like a gigantic O-ring) and the metal surfaces. Another is that unlike a typical connection of two metal parts, there is at least one small tubular piece that fits into either side of the assembly (water pump & front crankcase cover) to keep the two parts precisely aligned and prevent any side to side movement. You can see it at the end of the arrow in the picture below. We'll need to check with Larry (@Igofar ) to find out if there is only the one shown in the picture, or if perhaps there is a second one somewhere (not shown in the picture) that remained attached to the water pump cover when I removed it.

Best suggestion I can offer is to take a large flat-blade screwdriver, stuff it into the long vertical gap on the right side of the water pump cover - between the water pump cover and the front crankcase cover - and very gently wiggle the screwdriver in an attempt to move the water pump cover forward (not sideways). Second best suggestion I can offer is to tap the upper left corner of the water pump cover with a rubber mallet, or by placing a block of wood against it and tapping the block of wood with a hammer.

What both of the above actions try to achieve is to move the water pump cover directly forward (again, not sideways, because of that little tube at the end of the arrow) and break the adhesion between the old rubber gasket and the two metal castings.

Lastly, take a close look at the picture below, note all of the fastener holes, and double-check to make sure you removed every fastener. It's easy to overlook one fastener that might still be in place holding the cover on, especially if you have not done the job before.

Michael

Watch out for this little tube, which is there to prevent sideways movement

There are (2) of them Michael....one of yours must be stuck in the cover you took off
Love all your outstanding pictures, keep 'em coming, and thanks for sharing with everyone.

 

[Igofar]

A couple tips for this job.....
You can avoid ALL prying by using some PB blaster around the housing, a couple light taps with a dead blow or rubber mallet, then inserting a wooden dowel or piece of PVC into the spout area, then wiggle gently. The cover will then slide right off.
An easy way to replace the cover, is to purchase 3 long 6 mm bolts, cut the head off, put them in a drill and take a file to dress the ends, you can now screw them into the housing with your fingertips, and you'll have 3 long guide rods to make sure everything lines up perfectly, then remove them and install the correct bolts etc.

 

[HondaInTheSun]

**UPDATE**

Finally, I got to this job over the weekend. I was able to get the cover off with a few light taps with a rubber mallet, patience wins out on this one.

@Igofar had suggested I get the following parts and walked me through the process on The White Courtesy Phone:

GASKET, WATER PUMP
19226-MCS-A10

THERMOSTAT
19300-MBT-003

O-RING (43.5X2)
91361-MCS-A10

JOINT, FUEL TUBE
16961-MK7-000

I am NOT mechanically minded, at all. I've never taken an engine apart, have little clue how they work, and am quite frankly terrified of touching them. Larry, Dave, Michael, Peter, and many more of you all give me the confidence to try these things, without your help I wouldn't dream of touching anything like this. The way I approach this is like an adult version of Legos, follow instructions step by step, remember what you took out and where it goes, then put it back together again. I learned a heck of a lot along the way about how a cooling system works.

I would say the total time I spent on this was about 5 hours ( I'm slow ), including investigation of the initial leak, plastic removal and replacement, and the fixes themselves. I honestly believe in the end I probably did it better than a dealer, or a mechanic without ST specific knowledge would have, thanks to everyone here.

After a 40-minute test ride, FIXED. No leaks whatsoever on my garage floor, I'm thrilled.

THANK YOU ST OWNERS!