Upgrading of lights

[Danbo20]

Hi, just enquiring if
anyone in Northern Ireland are able to install the light/indicator switchbacks.... and also able to fit a USB charger... thanks in advance.

 

[Fenianbastard]

Where in Northern Ireland are you?.

 

[SMSW]

Are you asking for a referral to a mechanic who can install them and the charger? Or are you asking about how they perform?

What are light/indicator switchbacks?

 

[Sadlsor]

Are you asking for a referral to a mechanic who can install them and the charger? Or are you asking about how they perform?

What are light/indicator switchbacks?

Here's my Irish-to-Deep=South-Alabama translation (and no, I didn't ask Google Translate for help) -
"Is there anyone around northern Ireland who has installed these, and might be available sometime to lend a hand?"
Further, I "think" we're talking about the doohickeys you add to LED turn signal bulbs, so they don't freak out and flash too rapidly after replacing the OEM incandescents. While I haven't done the LED upgrade yet, the LED turn signals malfunction without the switchbacks.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

My version is;
Is there anyone around me who can install front turn signal switchback LED's and a USB charger for me?
Note: Installing turn signal switchbacks on a UK bike requires replacement light sockets and wiring modifications, as they don't have constant on running lights.

the LED turn signals malfunction without the switchbacks.

I believe that you are confusing two different things.
An electronic, or LED compatible, turn signal relay is required when an incandescent equipped vehicle is retrofitted with LED bulbs, be they switchback or not. Without this, the turn signals flash to rapidly. Nothing to do with the LED being a switchback or not.

Switchbacks are light-bulbs that are LED. In addition to being LED, they have the ability to output two different light colours from the same bulb dependant on the power input source.

 

[Sadlsor]

I believe that you are confusing two different things.
An electronic, or LED compatible, turn signal relay is required when an incandescent equipped vehicle is retrofitted with LED bulbs, be they switchback or not. Without this, the turn signals flash to rapidly. Nothing to do with the LED being a switchback or not.

Me?
Confused?
Never! (I mean, ALWAYS.)
No, you are correct. I thought the "switchback" WAS the relay preventing the rapid flashing.
Hopefully I will be more clear when it comes to my own install.
Thanks - and yours is the GO-TO instructions on the top of my stack of How-To transition to LED.

 

[STRider]

An electronic, or LED compatible, turn signal relay is required when an incandescent equipped vehicle is retrofitted with LED bulbs, be they switchback or not. Without this, the turn signals flash to rapidly. Nothing to do with the LED being a switchback or not.

All true @Andrew Shadow , replacing the relay is the best, but not the only solution for the rapid flashing. That happens because in older, incandescent lighting the resistance of the bulbs is part of an RC a circuit that uses a bimetallic strip whose changes in temperature determines the flash rate and the filament of the lamp is part of the resistance in the circuit. A load resistor can be installed across each LED lamp to flash at the usual rate with a conventional flasher.

The forgotten advantage of the solid state relay is that it flashes at the same rate with either LED or incandescent lamps. Should one of your LED lamps fail, you can install a conventional incandescent lamp as a stop-gap and everything will still flash at the same rate.


Edited to remove incorrect description of an RC circuit in the conventional flasher.

 

[SMSW]

All true @Andrew Shadow , replacing the relay is the best, but not the only solution for the rapid flashing. That happens because in older, incandescent lighting the resistance of the bulbs is part of an RC circuit that determines the flash rate. A load resistor can be installed across each LED lamp to flash at the usual rate with a conventional flasher.

The forgotten advantage of the solid state relay is that it flashes at the same rate with either LED or incandescent lamps. Should one of your LED lamps fail, you can install a conventional incandescent lamp as a stop-gap and everything will still flash at the same rate.

You are correct, but my take is the best way is often the only way one should go. Adding a resistor means more connections/soldering or altering the wiring harness. That resistor simply adds a load, and converts the electricity to heat - not an efficient way to solve the problem though the heat produced is not very great. And, as you said, when you are on the road and an LED bulb fails, an incandescent can be swapped in with the electronic flasher.

All these are reasons not to play with the resistor, unless of course you are shipwrecked on a desert island with your ST, you want to use the case of LED bulbs that washed ashore with you with the box of assorted resistors, and you have lots of time on your hands. Now, how far do I have to walk to a gas station and is there a gas can in all that flotsam?

 

[STRider]

Thanks @SMSW I mentioned the load resistor mostly because as I was researching LED replacements for incandescent applications the need for a load resistor kept popping up without mention of the superior alternative of a solid state flasher relay.

The other disadvantage of the load resistors is that you lose all or some of the power load reduction LEDs offer for your electrical system. A big consideration if you have an early ST1100 with the original 28W alternator.

 

[diferg]

what? over my head...... again

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I didn't mention the resistor because I consider it a non-starter and a fools errand to even consider using them. More work, less reliable, less effective, more power consumption, more failure points introduced in to the circuit, more energy wasted as heat, more heat, etc.. I see no reason why anyone would even consider using them so I don't mention them because I don't want to encourage anyone down that path. The switchbacks that I bought came with the resistors and I fired them right in to the in case I ever need one parts bin.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

what? over my head...... again

Which part, we will explain.

 

[SMSW]

what? over my head...... again

Not over your head. Every wire, and electrical component has a certain resistance - friction, if you will for the passage of electric current, which creates heat. The standard flashers require a certain load - or resistance because they are, (I think - I don't know this for a fact) depending on heat to warp a bimetallic strip inside the flasher. As this strip warps, it moves, making and breaking the contact. Change the load and resistance and the strip heats faster or slower. Replace a standard lamp with an LED, and it draws less current, has a different resistance and the standard flasher flashes more quickly because the heater inside heats more quickly. If you add a load resistor, it 'fools' the flasher into thinking the same old incandescent lamp is in place.

An electronic flasher has an electronic timer to turn lights on and off, working independently of the load

 

[STRider]

Not over your head. Every wire, and electrical component has a certain resistance - friction, if you will for the passage of electric current, which creates heat. The standard flashers require a certain load - or resistance because they are, (I think - I don't know this for a fact) depending on heat to warp a bimetallic strip inside the flasher. As this strip warps, it moves, making and breaking the contact. Change the load and resistance and the strip heats faster or slower. Replace a standard lamp with an LED, and it draws less current, has a different resistance and the standard flasher flashes more quickly because the heater inside heats more quickly. If you add a load resistor, it 'fools' the flasher into thinking the same old incandescent lamp is in place.

An electronic flasher has an electronic timer to turn lights on and off, working independently of the load

Yeah, @SMSW you're right, the conventional flashers use a bi-metallic strip not an RC circuit as I wrote. <head slap>

Edited my prior post to excise incorrect information.

 

[Larry Fine]

There are two different types of thermal flasher. Both use a heating element and a bi-metallic-strip-activated switch contact.

One has the heater in series with a normally-closed contact; the heat opens the contact, the element cools, closes, and repeats.

The other has the heater in parallel with a normally-open contact; the heat closes the contact, the element cools, opens, and repeats.

 

[diferg]

thanks, but is this entropy or enthalpy related? electrical and electronic issues cause me to read instructions over and over. Fortunately i have friends that are good at these sort of things. i sometimes get more confused than usual!

 

[northwestparider]

I'm waking up a sleepy thread here.

My version is;
Is there anyone around me who can install front turn signal switchback LED's and a USB charger for me?
Note: Installing turn signal switchbacks on a UK bike requires replacement light sockets and wiring modifications, as they don't have constant on running lights.


I believe that you are confusing two different things.
An electronic, or LED compatible, turn signal relay is required when an incandescent equipped vehicle is retrofitted with LED bulbs, be they switchback or not. Without this, the turn signals flash to rapidly. Nothing to do with the LED being a switchback or not.

Switchbacks are light-bulbs that are LED. In addition to being LED, they have the ability to output two different light colours from the same bulb dependant on the power input source.

All true @Andrew Shadow , replacing the relay is the best, but not the only solution for the rapid flashing. That happens because in older, incandescent lighting the resistance of the bulbs is part of an RC a circuit that uses a bimetallic strip whose changes in temperature determines the flash rate and the filament of the lamp is part of the resistance in the circuit. A load resistor can be installed across each LED lamp to flash at the usual rate with a conventional flasher.

The forgotten advantage of the solid state relay is that it flashes at the same rate with either LED or incandescent lamps. Should one of your LED lamps fail, you can install a conventional incandescent lamp as a stop-gap and everything will still flash at the same rate.


Edited to remove incorrect description of an RC circuit in the conventional flasher.

I don't even have my ST1300 in my possession yet, but I would like to replace the incandescent bulbs with LED's. From working on classic cars I figured that I would need the new flasher to do it. Is it plug and play with the flasher or should one be bought that has the polarity reversing base. Classic cars require the polarity reversing base.

Another lighting question. Years ago I tried to replace my tail/brake light bulb on my 83 V65 with an LED, that caused the burnt out tail light indicator light to always be on in the pilot house. Is this burnt tail light indicator still present on a 1300? If so, any ways to put an LED in here without causing the indicator to be on?

Thanks

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Is it plug and play with the flasher

Replacement LED compatible flasher relay is plug and play if you get the correct one, which means it needs to have the correct connector on it.
This is what I bought, as have many on this forum- Electronic LED Flasher Relay for Motorcycles.
I was able to fit it in to the same holder that the original relay was in.

Is this burnt tail light indicator still present on a 1300?

There is no defective bulb warning indicator on the ST1300, so there is no problem there.
Having said that, the traditional warning that a turn signal bulb has burnt out is rapidly flashing turn signals. If you install an LED compatible flasher relay, this feature no longer functions as the new relay works based on time, not resistance. It is then incumbent upon you to perform a functional inspection of your lights more often.

 

[STRider]

I covered my experience on the forum in this thread last spring.

white on yellow flash turn signal LED bulbs? | ST1300 Related

Who has those fancy white on yellow flash turn signal LED bulbs?

www.st-owners.com

And in this specific post I shared the electronic flasher I sourced from Amazon.

white on yellow flash turn signal LED bulbs? | ST1300 Related

Who has those fancy white on yellow flash turn signal LED bulbs?

www.st-owners.com

I was able to slip the OEM rubber retainer over the tab on the flasher and mount it exactly in place of the OEM flasher which has its connector built into the flasher body rather than at the end of a length of wire like this one.

 

[northwestparider]

Thanks guys.