Your new car is collecting data about how you drive...and sharing it w/ insurance co.'s

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I read this disturbing article:

I know at least one of the members reading this does not have a subscription and cannot read the article, however, if you sign up with the newspaper, giving them your email address, you can read up to 10 articles per month free - no subscription*. I have no doubt this story will have been shared with other news outlets by now so you can probably find it via a google search if you don't want to read the original article.

The gist of the article is new cars, especially those made by Honda, GM, Kia, Hyundai are internet enabled and they are collecting data about how you accelerate, brake, and travel at speeds over 80 mph. The automakers then sell this data to LexisNexis and Verisk (a data collector who sells it to the insurance industry). Some of this data is sold with your agreement to the privacy policy you agreed to when you bought the car. Other people will inadvertently give insurance companies permission when you allow them to investigate your accident history upon shopping for insurance. Some people have had the data collected because GM salesmen get commissions if they sell the OnStar and other programs and simply turn them on. The article describes a number of people who had massive increases in the cost of their insurance, including one Corvette owner who took his new car to a racetrack for a 'track day'.

One industry expert who studied the privacy policies to which we agree for 25 auto manufacturers said that it is impossible for lay people to understand what is in these agreements.

This is a very simplified description of the article. If your car is newer than a 2019, you might want to check into some of the things mentioned in the article. Links are also given so that owners can access their LexisNexis report (much like a credit report).


*This was the policy a couple of years ago.
 

Mondo

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I have no problem with this as long as it’s YOUR choice to knowingly do so. My son in law, being a young male for whom rates are sky high, has a Tesla and has dropped his insurance rate considerably just by being careful. Again, it was his choice to do so. It would be interesting to see if some folks could sue claiming it was never made clear. The insurance company would claim you signed for it, but the counter argument would be that it was intentionally deceptive. I would ask for a jury of my peers to decide.

Greg
 
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OP
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I have no problem with this as long as it’s YOUR choice to knowingly do so. My son in law, being a young male for whom rates are sky high, has a Tesla and has dropped his insurance rate considerably just by being careful. Again, it was his choice to do so. It would be interesting to see if some folks could sue claiming it was never made clear. The insurance company would claim you signed for it, but the counter argument would be that it was intentionally deceptive. I would ask for a jury of my peers to decide.
Greg
One of the points of the article is that this is being done without people's knowledge. It is all about money. GM is making millions selling the data to LexisNexis, and few GM customers know their data is being collected. How many privacy policies have you read thoroughly? Did you understand all of the implications of their broad statements? Our local BMW club was invited to a movie showing of the west coast BDR by a local dealership. We had to reserve seats, and these went through a ticketmaster type company. They had a privacy policy that I took the time to read...and I declined to view the movie because of their promise to spread any and all data they could scarf up about me to anyone who would pay. Yes, my choice, and I have no regrets.
 

dduelin

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I read this disturbing article:

I know at least one of the members reading this does not have a subscription and cannot read the article, however, if you sign up with the newspaper, giving them your email address, you can read up to 10 articles per month free - no subscription*. I have no doubt this story will have been shared with other news outlets by now so you can probably find it via a google search if you don't want to read the original article.

The gist of the article is new cars, especially those made by Honda, GM, Kia, Hyundai are internet enabled and they are collecting data about how you accelerate, brake, and travel at speeds over 80 mph. The automakers then sell this data to LexisNexis and Verisk (a data collector who sells it to the insurance industry). Some of this data is sold with your agreement to the privacy policy you agreed to when you bought the car. Other people will inadvertently give insurance companies permission when you allow them to investigate your accident history upon shopping for insurance. Some people have had the data collected because GM salesmen get commissions if they sell the OnStar and other programs and simply turn them on. The article describes a number of people who had massive increases in the cost of their insurance, including one Corvette owner who took his new car to a racetrack for a 'track day'.

One industry expert who studied the privacy policies to which we agree for 25 auto manufacturers said that it is impossible for lay people to understand what is in these agreements.

This is a very simplified description of the article. If your car is newer than a 2019, you might want to check into some of the things mentioned in the article. Links are also given so that owners can access their LexisNexis report (much like a credit report).


*This was the policy a couple of years ago.
I guess you leave your smartphone at home when you go for a ride?
 

Erdoc48

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I would assume smartphones could be used for the same data collection. I have Progressive coverage on the cars and bikes, and for a whole year, I had to have the Progressive app on the phone to monitor the driving. It was a pain but at least my rates didn’t go up. As for new cars collecting data, I continue to drive my very old cars as long as they will run.
 
OP
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I guess you leave your smartphone at home when you go for a ride?
I was not aware that our phones track us if we don't have a specific app like @Erdoc48 and the progressive app, and have the 'use my location' turned off for most of the apps. The only time my phone uses my location (that I know about) is when I turn on google maps, and that is not very often.
 

Willsmotorcycle

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I was not aware that our phones track us if we don't have a specific app like @Erdoc48 and the progressive app, and have the 'use my location' turned off for most of the apps. The only time my phone uses my location (that I know about) is when I turn on google maps, and that is not very often.
Your phone pings towers for location, constatly, weather app, obviously all map apps. I check my sharing location periodically to see if something is running that doesn't have permission. It's usually the OS for technical reasons.
 
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I guess you leave your smartphone at home when you go for a ride?
I take my phone's battery out and smash the phone on the sidewalk whenever I leave the house like I saw in one of the Bourne Identiy movies. It seems to work well, but is getting expensive as I have to replace $800 phones constantly. ;)

We're not far away from having a worldwide digital identity, and you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg now. It'll be sold to us like Facebook and Google were sold to us. Look at how convenient it is, how useful the app is, etc. My new BMW has a Navigation screen. If I turn on the location of my phone, it can be used to guide me like a TomTom GPS unit does, or simply to tell me what street I'm on and the speed limit, etc. Some of the owners think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I don't think for a second that BMW is being altruistic. They are selling where I go, and when I go, and whatever other info they can get.

Google's owners and FB's owners didn't get to be the richest men on the planet by being nice to us. They sold data they collected (and even lied about it), and other companies thought it was worth enough to pay big bucks for. It used to be that the gov't three-letter agencies needed search warrants to tap your phone etc. Now they just buy the information like the other companies do.

I bought a new laptop finally with Win 11 on it. You wouldn't believe the number of things that are buried in the settings menu that offer to "help" you. I turned off all I could find.

Will it keep companies and the gov't from "spying" on me? Probably not completely. But there's no sense in making it easy for them.

Chris
 

ST1100Y

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Kinda old news...
All "newer" cars (and motorcycles) store a §h!tload of data...
Prev they were transferred home upon every workshop visit/appointment when connecting to the diagnostic port (the shop's "engine testers" must be connected to the MGF's home-base...)
On beemers one can't even change oil or brake fluids, their onboard computer can't be reset without the umbilical cord...
Warranty claims like premature clutch failure get dismissed over collected data showing "something" that's rated as "improper use by customer"...
Now with Northstar (US) or E-Call (EU) being mandatory (the car MFG lobby worked hard on this and were easily able to bypass the GDPR there...) the cars themself are pretty much always online...
The real problem to frown upon is the missing opt-out possibility... you'd need a wire cutter to disable that UMTS modem...

Couple of years ago TomTom caused a scandal in the Netherlands by providing user movement data to the gov, so the authorities can place their speed-traps "more effectively"...
Not long and your vehicle will "report" any violations directly to the authorities... the fine printout will already await you upon returning home...

Orwell's visions came true...
 

ReSTored

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Unless you live in a hole in the ground somewhere, off grid, no cell phone, no computer, no drivers license, no vehicle, work for cash only, pay cash for everything, don't file income taxes you're being tracked day by day by a whole range of data gatherers who make money selling your data. Even then, locals would probably know you and report you to the authorities as "that weird guy who lives in the hills" and you'd be on somebody's watch list as a potential domestic terrorist / Unabomber type.
 

Sadlsor

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I agree with @Daboo in that I prefer not to make it easy for them, but I'm under no delusion that my data is not out there for sale.

The whole concept of "personal privacy" is but a thinly-veiled myth today, and the US government with all its agencies and bureaucracies is the largest abuser of our privacy and our data.

"You can run, but you can't hide."
 

Obo

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Many (most) cars have been logging data for some time, but not sharing it outright. The computers in them store various data over a time frame, such as throttle position, speed, brakes etc. This data is so the vehicle can analyze things like engine management, abs, airbag etc. It's always been possible for dealers to retrieve this data, even after an accident by request of law authorities.

For a while we also had devices installed on our cars by the insurance company. They plugged into the OBD2 port and sent all kinds of data back that we got reports on such as time of day driving, hard braking events, hard acceleration events, distance traveled etc. These devices were supposed to ensure we got a discount for our "good driving." I was some glad once they were removed. I found they resulted in me trying to avoid the "undesired actions" such as hard braking when it was required vs driving safely.
 
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I have no problem with this as long as it’s YOUR choice to knowingly do so. My son in law, being a young male for whom rates are sky high, has a Tesla and has dropped his insurance rate considerably just by being careful. Again, it was his choice to do so. It would be interesting to see if some folks could sue claiming it was never made clear. The insurance company would claim you signed for it, but the counter argument would be that it was intentionally deceptive. I would ask for a jury of my peers to decide.

Greg
Apps on your phone , which you agreed to , can also send that data to insurance companies. Phone (most) have gps.
 
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I read this disturbing article:

I know at least one of the members reading this does not have a subscription and cannot read the article, however, if you sign up with the newspaper, giving them your email address, you can read up to 10 articles per month free - no subscription*. I have no doubt this story will have been shared with other news outlets by now so you can probably find it via a google search if you don't want to read the original article.

The gist of the article is new cars, especially those made by Honda, GM, Kia, Hyundai are internet enabled and they are collecting data about how you accelerate, brake, and travel at speeds over 80 mph. The automakers then sell this data to LexisNexis and Verisk (a data collector who sells it to the insurance industry). Some of this data is sold with your agreement to the privacy policy you agreed to when you bought the car. Other people will inadvertently give insurance companies permission when you allow them to investigate your accident history upon shopping for insurance. Some people have had the data collected because GM salesmen get commissions if they sell the OnStar and other programs and simply turn them on. The article describes a number of people who had massive increases in the cost of their insurance, including one Corvette owner who took his new car to a racetrack for a 'track day'.

One industry expert who studied the privacy policies to which we agree for 25 auto manufacturers said that it is impossible for lay people to understand what is in these agreements.

This is a very simplified description of the article. If your car is newer than a 2019, you might want to check into some of the things mentioned in the article. Links are also given so that owners can access their LexisNexis report (much like a credit report).


*This was the policy a couple of years ago.
They also want to be able to disable a car in the event of a police chase or other reasons.
 

John OoSTerhuis

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The current state of governmental surveillance in China may be in our future, scary!:


Edit: He’s Canadian. During the truckers’ protest the Canadian government actually froze the bank accounts of participants, even those who supported the cause by making a $5 donation to the organization; also a local woman who just brought coffee to some of the truckers parked in the street! Those folks couldn’t buy groceries or run their businesses!
 
Last edited:
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I read this disturbing article:

I know at least one of the members reading this does not have a subscription and cannot read the article, however, if you sign up with the newspaper, giving them your email address, you can read up to 10 articles per month free - no subscription*. I have no doubt this story will have been shared with other news outlets by now so you can probably find it via a google search if you don't want to read the original article.

The gist of the article is new cars, especially those made by Honda, GM, Kia, Hyundai are internet enabled and they are collecting data about how you accelerate, brake, and travel at speeds over 80 mph. The automakers then sell this data to LexisNexis and Verisk (a data collector who sells it to the insurance industry). Some of this data is sold with your agreement to the privacy policy you agreed to when you bought the car. Other people will inadvertently give insurance companies permission when you allow them to investigate your accident history upon shopping for insurance. Some people have had the data collected because GM salesmen get commissions if they sell the OnStar and other programs and simply turn them on. The article describes a number of people who had massive increases in the cost of their insurance, including one Corvette owner who took his new car to a racetrack for a 'track day'.

One industry expert who studied the privacy policies to which we agree for 25 auto manufacturers said that it is impossible for lay people to understand what is in these agreements.

This is a very simplified description of the article. If your car is newer than a 2019, you might want to check into some of the things mentioned in the article. Links are also given so that owners can access their LexisNexis report (much like a credit report).


*This was the policy a couple of years ago.
My news vehicle is a 2008, my oldest a 1967 so I think I will be O.K.
 
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