Zumo XT Trip Repair Tool

[Mellow]

I sense a common thread in these responses.

"that is for a route you created on basecamp"

Ummm...why would anyone expect a different outcome, if they continued to use what has failed in the past? This sounds a bit like the idea that history repeats itself and those who don't learn from history will continue to repeat the mistakes of the past.

Who is smarter, the user or Basecamp?

Chris

True, but it's easier to skip a waypoint than it is to create a route on the device.. and the routes shouldn't act differently especially since they never have on previous units or software versions.

Try creating a route on they're new Tred app, that's a nighmare lol. But may be the only option moving forward if Garmin abandons the basecamp tool.

 

[jfheath]

As stated in this thread, that is for a route you created on basecamp and then imported into the XT. If you built the route on the XT manually, it works like the 595 does (I haven't tried that myself as it's not all that fun).

That is correct. And if you have a route from Basecamp on the XT, and you then resave it as described in post#11, then the XT will behave just like the 595 and 590.

@Daboo - if you have found a method that produces a fool proof route on the XT, then stick to it. I can create foolproof routes on the XT. But occasionally it will do something stupid - and there is always a part of me that wants to know why and when it happens. So I try to make it happen, and then I know what to do if it happens when I am on the trip of a lifetime, or I am lost and cold and wet.

In particular, if you lace-up a route with lots of route points, then it cannot mis-behave. Many people use this technique, but it shouldn't be necessary.

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Map contains OS Data (Crown Copyright 2020)

Here is an example of what the XT does - in certain situations. The left hand maps shows the route that I took. I had ridden 8 miles from above the top right hand corner. Earlier, Hawes centre was misplaced, so I skipped it. This causes the route to recalculate. It calculates a route which I have shown as the light blue line - SW to Ingleton, then turn left (SE) to just after Settle. It is longer, but according to the XT, it is a minute faster. I wanted my original route before the XT recalculated it, so I turned left at Ribblehead, heading (S) - the red line.

The only route point that is plotted is at Cleatop - just south of Settle, bottom right. ,For the entire ride from Ribblehead to Settle, the XT was demanding that I turn around and go back to Ribblehead and follow its original route to Ingleton, then SE to Settle.

Just before reaching Settle, I stopped and took a screen shot of the map, and the route it was wanting me to take. That is the image on the right. I am about 3 miles from the orange flag Via Point. The route that the XT is taking me is in the opposite direction, back along the route that I have just travelled to return me to its original. So a 27 mile route to reach a point just 3 miles away. It continues to try to route me back until I am 0.9 miles away from meeting the magenta line.

Only then does it navigate ahead.

I have found out exactly what it is doing, why it does it and how to prevent it - but that isn't for here. I'll happily open up a new thread and bore you silly with the detail, but it seems to be as a result of the different routing modes that are available to the XT users. (eg Track to Trip, Navigate a track, Closest Entry Point,. ...)

A single shaping point, eg at Horton in Ribblesdale, would prevent this - but this is not what is supposed to happen. If like me you are used to the 550, 660, 590 and 595, you will be used to the Zumo recalculating a route as soon as the way ahead becomes faster/shorter. Indeed, if you create the route using the same saved Waypoints on the XT, this is exaclty what the XT does. As soon as I turned left at Ribblehead, it realsied this was OK, and plotted the route south to Settle - my red route.

And significantly, that is what it also does if I load the original test route (that failed) and resave it so that it appears in the 'Saved' category, rather then the 'Imported' category.

Incidentally, to answer a different comment - this is NOT a Basecamp issue. Any route from any route planning software will behave like this in the same circumstances. Garmin's Explore doesn't create routes with via and shaping points. I believe the same is true of Garmin's Tread

 

[ST1100Y]

The previous 595 I had worked great, if you missed a turn and passed a waypoint that was say 1 mile away but then came near a road which put you back on your route it would continue forward and ignore the waypoint you missed .

The principle enabling standard situations while on a tour, like stopping for food, fuel, visiting an attraction, having to follow a detour due to roadworks/a procession/a festival, etc...

The XT will keep trying to route you back to that missed waypoint so you have to click the skip waypoint to continue on your route.

hence impeding any normal regular usage mentioned above...

As stated in this thread, that is for a route you created on basecamp and then imported into the XT. If you built the route on the XT manually, it works like the 595 does

This "stand alone" design is again impeding usage as designated motorcycle navigation assistant...
Dunno where this trend origins... total humbug... designed past the users...
I inherited a TomTom Rider 550 which as well is designed as stand alone kit, not supporting (at least making it really hard) import of pre-planned routes...

 

[Daboo]

@Daboo - if you have found a method that produces a fool proof route on the XT, then stick to it.

Once in awhile I'll use Kurviger. Most of the time, I use Google or Bing maps to plan my route, then create the route manually on the Zumo XT forcing it to go where I want by using POIs like gas stations.

Chris

 

[jfheath]

Just responding to the post #23. ST1100Y and Mellow. Hopefully to add a little clarity. It wont let me quote the full message with the quoted sections so I've reproduced it .

Exchange 1. There seems to be a misunderstanding here:

​

The previous 595 I had worked great, if you missed a turn and passed a waypoint that was say 1 mile away but then came near a road which put you back on your route it would continue forward and ignore the waypoint you missed .​

The principle enabling standard situations while on a tour, like stopping for food, fuel, visiting an attraction, having to follow a detour due to roadworks/a procession/a festival, etc...​

All Zumos that use the trip planner app include the faciity to add two different types of route point:​

Via points which alert on approach and arrival (orange flag)​

Shaping points which do not alert. (blue or orange disc)​

​

If you miss out either of the points the Zumo will attempt to navigate you so that you visit it. Always.​

If you reach the plotted magenta line after missing a shaping point, the Zumo will continue to navigate ahead and will stop its attempts to visit it.​

​

If you join the magenta route after missing a Via Point, the Zumo will continue to navigate you to the missed Via Point. Forever. There is no way out of this except by using the Skip Feature or restarting the route.​

This was true for the 590 and 595 and the XT behaves in exactly the same way.​

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(The 590 had a skip button, the 595 had an edit route button which allowed a choice of skipping the next via or next shaping point. The XT had both)​

​

Exchange 2 is similar

​

The XT will keep trying to route you back to that missed waypoint so you have to click the skip waypoint to continue on your route.​

hence impeding any normal regular usage mentioned above...​

As above, the XT is no different from the 590,595,660 and 550 in this respect.​

But there are 2 different types of point that are used to form a route. Any route point has to be set as either a via or a shaping and it is these behave differently when missed.​

Exchange 3

As stated in this thread, that is for a route you created on basecamp and then imported into the XT. If you built the route on the XT manually, it works like the 595 does​

This "stand alone" design is again impeding usage as designated motorcycle navigation assistant...​

​

The XT behaves like the 595 does anyway. This RUT behaviour only happens on the XT if it is forced to recalculate the route eg after pressing Skip.​

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The issue isn't confined to Basecamp routes. Any file created on any mapping program that puts a gpx file on the Zumo will be treated as imported, and will display RUT behaviour in the same circumstances.​

​

Fooling the XT into believing the route is Saved rather than imported, makes any route behave as if it was built on the XT itself. I have tried, but every 'saved' route has never displayed the RUT behaviour. Same route, identical route points, same test, same deviation. The imported route gets stuck in a RUT loop, the saved version does not.​

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The fix is easy as shown in the video. Just load any route, say Go, then in trip planner Save the active route. Use the Saved version.​

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[Mellow]

John, question and I'm sorry if this has already been asked/answered.

In basecamp have you tried a route where you added several via points then, in basecamp when you look at the route window with all the start, via, end points.... have you right-clicked all the via pints and selected don't alert which turns them into shaping pionts?

Will that transfer to the device and act better?

 

[jfheath]

John, question and I'm sorry if this has already been asked/answered.

In basecamp have you tried a route where you added several via points then, in basecamp when you look at the route window with all the start, via, end points.... have you right-clicked all the via pints and selected don't alert which turns them into shaping pionts?

Will that transfer to the device and act better?

Yes. A 'sensible' mix is best:

A via point will insist that you visit it.
A shaping point will insist you visit it, but if you join up with the magenta route after the missed shaping point, it forgets about it and navigates ahead to the next point.

Via points are the only points that are listed as options when you load the route and select Go. In the UK the zumo asks you to select the next destination. So via points are useful for stopping places. For me, most of the rest of the route points are shaping.

So typically, I do exactly as you suggest - multiselect all of the point ( except start and finish) and change them all to shaping.
The 3 points that mark the stopping places, (or the exit from stopping places, are then set as Vias. Usually, these will have been created as Garmin's Saved/Waypoints/Favourites - simply because the Zumo will not change the name, but they can be Vias whether or not they are saved wapoints

On the XT it is best to avoid skip. Either that or (better) 'fix' the route by resaving it as described earlier. Then you can skip as much as you like. The XT route then behaves like the 595 or 590.

Edited 16:00 10 Feb Uk time to add extra detail.

 

[ST1100Y]

If you miss out either of the points the Zumo will attempt to navigate you so that you visit it. Always.

Well, my old Quest-I ('04) doesn't have a skip function, hence no problem...

If you reach the plotted magenta line after missing a shaping point, the Zumo will continue to navigate ahead and will stop its attempts to visit it.

That's how it's supposed to be, but apparently the XT gives headaches in this regard...

Anyway, if I ever change I'll go for a 396, obviously the last model without moods and being non-capricious...

 

[jfheath]

That's how it's supposed to be, but apparently the XT gives headaches in this regard...

Not under normal circumstances. The XT behaves 'correctly'. But when Skip has been pressed, the XT recalculates and it seems to change the nature of the route - it seems to put more importance on getting back to the original route than it does on visiting route points.

But if you apply the 'fix' by resaving the route before running it, it behaves exactly like the 595 and 590. I assume the 39x and 34x models as well.

It was a problem. We have found an easy fix.

 

[ST1100Y]

But when Skip has been pressed, the XT recalculates and it seems to change the nature of the route - it seems to put more importance on getting back to the original route than it does on visiting route points.
But if you apply the 'fix' by resaving the route before running it, it behaves exactly like the 595 and 590. I assume the 39x and 34x models as well.
It was a problem. We have found an easy fix.

Yeah, the [saving and reload] procedure seems the current workaround, by why having to stop and waste time in fumbling buttons to overcome issues that shouldn't occur to begin with?
And yes, the route is more important then the shaping points, they're only set to actually reach that particular road... and that's what the programmers don't get/see from a car-driver's POV only...
(that the European road architecture is more complex then the simple "grid" you'll might move in the majority of the US seems to worsen the problem even more...)
With the begin of the Zumo series something fundamentally was changed, causing the units to convert original shaping points into way points (see "flag problem", like the Zumo 220 I'd gotten for my GF) during upload and actually handling them as such while on the move; and they never fixed that... it got worse with every generation, confronted in the Garmin forum their representatives explain this bug away as "a feature"... leaving motorcycle riders baffled...
In BaseCamp you'll have to perform another desperate workaround by setting your shaping points to [no alarm] in hope to hold off some of the issues how the Zumo's handle those... the reasons why a plain shaping point suddenly has the values of an actual waypoint were never explained nor fixed...
Open a route send from the PC and you see [recalculating route], which is already alarming, computer and unit have the same map version, no need to recalculate...
The "old" models (pre- NT maps) didn't have this problem, they obviously "fixed" something that was working just fine before...
(when I open a sent route on my old Quest nothing happens, it just opens it's properties, asking from where to start, hit [start navigation] and it hops into the map/navigation screen...)

And from what I read over here is it even worse with myDrive active/connected: when the XT "sees" a possible traffic congestion/road blockage it simply drops the entire route and plots a new, direct course straight to the destination... so you end up on motorways and major roads you never intended to be on... nobody uses the myDrive app anymore...

Another fun anectode:
befriended couple has two 396 LMT units, the route uploaded to one (his) is also send to the other (her's), both kits have the same map versions, both identical route preferences set...
But when they start the route, they get different routings, distance, arrival times, etc... always fun hearing them argue in the morning...

 

[Tor]

I create enough via points in the routes (a via point on every turn, intersection, off-ramp, on ramp) so when the XT starts acting up, I skip that route point. That is the only reason I have the skip button on the nav screen. And I never recalculate once the route is loaded onto the XT.

 

[jfheath]

That is the only reason I have the skip button on the nav screen. And I never recalculate once the route is loaded onto the XT.

But with the XT, if you skip a point, any point - it removes that point from the trip list and the entire route is then re-calculated from your current position to the end. It still plots a route between all of the remaining route points (via and shaping) and it retains the correct order. But the route is now possibly different from the original. Also - its behaviour now seems to be different. I can explain how I think it now behaves (with evidence), but maybe for a different post.

befriended couple has two 396 LMT units, the route uploaded to one (his) is also send to the other (her's), both kits have the same map versions, both identical route preferences set...
But when they start the route, they get different routings, distance, arrival times, etc... always fun hearing them argue in the morning...

That is possibly due to the individual rider's riding history that is built up in their Zumos. When I was testing the XT behaviour, I was very careful to begin each separate test with a Zumo that had been restored to its original settings so that my behaviour didn't affect the subsequent results.