Main fuse box maintenance

Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
91
Age
55
Location
Somerset UK
H all, I’ve just been looking in the main fuse box on my st 1100. I noticed that the top fuse (the 10 amp low beam) was not corroded but the slot it went into had obviously had a bit of a melt down at sometime in the past. Still working though. My question is this. Would it be sensible to protect these fuses and the fuse box by pulling the fuses and squirting some acf 50 into the connections and then putting them back in. I have silicone grease as well but I feel acf50 May be more appropriate. Or, do i just pull them in and out a few times to ensure a good connection. I ask because earlier I was trying to get access to the auxiliary fuse box (out of interest for farkles) and after this the bike would not start on the button. It ( apparently ) turned out to the 10 amp ignition fuse ( 4th one down). I changed it for a spare and hey presto it worked. I decided to double check the old fuse with a multimeter as it showed no visible fault. Guess what, the old fuse was fine. So I put the old fuse back in again and it’s working fine. So I guess I’m asking how to protect thIs fuse box and it’s fuses. Thanks in advance guys.
 
Thank you John. Another excellent article with top notch pics.
 
Hi Darren

It just so happens that I was tidying up the workshop today and came across an unfinished project involving an ST1100 Fuse Box. So I thought I'd investigate for you. IT may not be the same as yours, but if it is, this may provide you with some useful information. Certainly this one has the Ign as the 4th one down. The 7 in order are 10A Meter, Tail, Position / 10A Indicator Horn / 10A Turn Stop / 10A Ign ACG Starter / 10A Fan / 10A Clock / 20A Headlight. Not that it matters much if the fuse box design is the same. I haven't a clue what ACG is - perhaps ACC spelt incorrectly ?!

You could certainly try cleaning up the contacts by inserting a blade a few times - depending on how corroded it is. Another alternative is to use a cut down emery board or a nail file. Be careful not to spread the two sides of the blade though. Also these terminals will be live. Disconnecting the battery is a good idea.

I suspect though, that the intermittent connection is caused by the damaged holder. Some pics to explain.

First an image looking into the fuse box from the top with all of the fuses removed. I have also removed one of the blade terminals - the one with the red line pointing to it. More on that later.

View attachment 234517

Here is the actual fuse blade terminal taken out of the fuse box, viewed from the side. Note the little lug protruding from the bottom. Unlike many terminal, this lug will not bend out of the way.

View attachment 234514

Here is the same Fuse Blade Terminal Viewed from the top side of the previous photo. Note the sprung bent contact which has enough spring in it to touch the opposite side. The fuse blade slots in there (from the left of the photo). It is the metal on both sides where the bent part touches the top part that needs good electrical connection with the blade.

View attachment 234515

Now back to the first image. I suspect that the terminal is not locking into its proper position, so that when you put the fuse in, all it is doing is pushing the terminal in the photo above out of the back of the fuse box. My guess is that when you replaced the fuse, and it worked, the fuse box was not mounted on the bike, but was in your hand - and that prevented the terminal from escaping out of the back !

The red line in the first photo is pointing to a plastic moulding which springs up from the bottom of the hole where the fuse blade terminal lives.
That plastic 'tang' clicks into place behind that little metal lug that I pointed out in the second photo. It is located at the lower side of the slot in the bottom row, and in the top side of the slot in the top row. You can just see the end of it peeping out of the darkness in the position above the one labelled with the red line. It is this plastic 'tang' which springs up behind that metal lug when the terminal and wire is pushed into the fuse box. Thus locks the terminal in place and acts like a latch on a door or on a ratchet. It has to be gently moved out of the way to release the terminal again. If the fuse box is damaged, then that plastic tang may not be there to hold the terminal in place.

See the diagram below. It represents the terminal (as shown in the 2nd photo) inserted into the fuse box.

In order to remove the terminal from the fuse box, you need a small screwdriver. Push the wire to which the terminal is connected into the fuse box (to the left in the diagram) - it will only move a fraction, but it helps. Gently slide in the oange handled screwdriver with the blue blade alongside the terminal ( from the rear of the fusebox where the wires enter) and allow it to push down on the plastic. Don't use force, you want it to spring up again. Leave the screwdriver where it is, but pull on the cable. If it doesn't come, you need to push the screwdriver in a little further and maybe press the blade down a bit more. But the trick is to keep the driver pressing on the plastic tang as you pull the wire. Once you feel it is free, then let the driver come out.

View attachment 234518

If you intend to do this to check out the terminals, then I suggest disconnecting the battery first, and only remove one terminal at a time, before putting it back again. Note that there are two pairs of terminals which are connected together. You will see the connecting strip if you look at the back of the fuse box where the wires enter. They are (on the Fuse Box that I have) the '10A meter tail position' linked with the '10A indicator horn', and the '10A turn stop' linked with the 'Ign, ACG, Starter'. So if the fuse box is damaged at the 'Ign' terminal and the terminal isn't being held in place properly - it can't actually come all of the way out, because the terminal next to it will be holding it in. It may be that all you have to do is make sure that this fuse is always inserted when you can get your fingers around the back to keep the terminal in place. (Those wires and terminals will likely be live all of the time, whether or not the ignition is on, so be careful - disconnect the battery).

The purpose of the metal connecting strip is to provide power to 2 fuses from one heavy duty cable. One of those terminals will therefore not have a wire connected to it.

However, to get these pair of terminals out you would need to release two plastic tangs simultaneously.

But, I suspect that you would get away without taking any terminals out, and just cleaning up. Which sort of negates all of the stuff i have said so far - but the information is there, it may be of use, and at least gives you the option !

Grease / oil ? Apply some silicone grease to the terminals and to the blades (its supposed to be dilectric grease, but I've never had problems with silicone). If there is enough spring in the contacts it will clear the grease away where it needs to make contact. If you want to protect the connections at the rear I have used that white spray grease, comes out liquid but turns thick and sticks pretty well. I use it on my banjo bolts to stop them going rusty over winter.

I'm not sure that info about the grease is particularly good advice - others will chime in if it is a complete no-no - but its what I've done for the last umpteen years, and it is infinitely better than the letting in salt water that kicks up off the UK roads.
Thank you John. A superb amount of detail. I will take the battery off and have another gentle look later this afternoon.
 
Hi John, what about disconnecting the battery, pulling all the fuses. Dousing the fuse box with electrical contact cleaner, front and back, making sure all wires are firmly connected into their seats at 5he back by giving them a firm push and then reinserting all the fuses back in and out again a few times just to make sure it has a proper clean and complete seating. Then, final protection from the weather; I don’t have any of the white lithium grease that you refer to but do have the acf50. Is there any reason not to use acf 50 after final assembly. Thanks again in advance. D
 
Darren, I'm no expert on ACF50 but have used it on previous bikes in similiar locations with no issues, but like you and John said not before assembly.
Good luck.
Upt'North.
 
Thanks Guys, I will get on with that tomorrow. Hopefully that will be it for a while. Have a good new year. D
 
Hi Darren

It just so happens that I was tidying up the workshop today and came across an unfinished project involving an ST1100 Fuse Box. So I thought I'd investigate for you. IT may not be the same as yours, but if it is, this may provide you with some useful information. Certainly this one has the Ign as the 4th one down. The 7 in order are 10A Meter, Tail, Position / 10A Indicator Horn / 10A Turn Stop / 10A Ign ACG Starter / 10A Fan / 10A Clock / 20A Headlight. Not that it matters much if the fuse box design is the same. I haven't a clue what ACG is - perhaps ACC spelt incorrectly ?!

You could certainly try cleaning up the contacts by inserting a blade a few times - depending on how corroded it is. Another alternative is to use a cut down emery board or a nail file. Be careful not to spread the two sides of the blade though. Also these terminals will be live. Disconnecting the battery is a good idea.

I suspect though, that the intermittent connection is caused by the damaged holder. Some pics to explain.

First an image looking into the fuse box from the top with all of the fuses removed. I have also removed one of the blade terminals - the one with the red line pointing to it. More on that later.

View attachment 234517

Here is the actual fuse blade terminal taken out of the fuse box, viewed from the side. Note the little lug protruding from the bottom. Unlike many terminal, this lug will not bend out of the way.

View attachment 234514

Here is the same Fuse Blade Terminal Viewed from the top side of the previous photo. Note the sprung bent contact which has enough spring in it to touch the opposite side. The fuse blade slots in there (from the left of the photo). It is the metal on both sides where the bent part touches the top part that needs good electrical connection with the blade.

View attachment 234515

Now back to the first image. I suspect that the terminal is not locking into its proper position, so that when you put the fuse in, all it is doing is pushing the terminal in the photo above out of the back of the fuse box. My guess is that when you replaced the fuse, and it worked, the fuse box was not mounted on the bike, but was in your hand - and that prevented the terminal from escaping out of the back !

The red line in the first photo is pointing to a plastic moulding which springs up from the bottom of the hole where the fuse blade terminal lives.
That plastic 'tang' clicks into place behind that little metal lug that I pointed out in the second photo. It is located at the lower side of the slot in the bottom row, and in the top side of the slot in the top row. You can just see the end of it peeping out of the darkness in the position above the one labelled with the red line. It is this plastic 'tang' which springs up behind that metal lug when the terminal and wire is pushed into the fuse box. Thus locks the terminal in place and acts like a latch on a door or on a ratchet. It has to be gently moved out of the way to release the terminal again. If the fuse box is damaged, then that plastic tang may not be there to hold the terminal in place.

See the diagram below. It represents the terminal (as shown in the 2nd photo) inserted into the fuse box.

In order to remove the terminal from the fuse box, you need a small screwdriver. Push the wire to which the terminal is connected into the fuse box (to the left in the diagram) - it will only move a fraction, but it helps. Gently slide in the oange handled screwdriver with the blue blade alongside the terminal ( from the rear of the fusebox where the wires enter) and allow it to push down on the plastic. Don't use force, you want it to spring up again. Leave the screwdriver where it is, but pull on the cable. If it doesn't come, you need to push the screwdriver in a little further and maybe press the blade down a bit more. But the trick is to keep the driver pressing on the plastic tang as you pull the wire. Once you feel it is free, then let the driver come out.

View attachment 234518

[Update]

24 hours later, I've just tried the above method again, and the second time, this was not as easy. So I tried from the front. There is a tiny lip on the plastic tang which you can just about make out when viewing the fuse box from the fuse side - with a bright light and a magnifying glass. If you put a screwdriver in from the front and press down on that lip, while applying gentle pull on the cable from behind, you will feel the terminal release. I got a much better success rate doing it this way than the way I described first of all. - But both methods work.

View attachment 234524

[/Update]

If you intend to do this to check out the terminals, then I suggest disconnecting the battery first, and only remove one terminal at a time, before putting it back again. Note that there are two pairs of terminals which are connected together. You will see the connecting strip if you look at the back of the fuse box where the wires enter. They are (on the Fuse Box that I have) the '10A meter tail position' linked with the '10A indicator horn', and the '10A turn stop' linked with the 'Ign, ACG, Starter'. So if the fuse box is damaged at the 'Ign' terminal and the terminal isn't being held in place properly - it can't actually come all of the way out, because the terminal next to it will be holding it in. It may be that all you have to do is make sure that this fuse is always inserted when you can get your fingers around the back to keep the terminal in place. (Those wires and terminals will likely be live all of the time, whether or not the ignition is on, so be careful - disconnect the battery).

The purpose of the metal connecting strip is to provide power to 2 fuses from one heavy duty cable. One of those terminals will therefore not have a wire connected to it.

However, to get these pair of terminals out you would need to release two plastic tangs simultaneously.

But, I suspect that you would get away without taking any terminals out, and just cleaning up. Which sort of negates all of the stuff i have said so far - but the information is there, it may be of use, and at least gives you the option !

Grease / oil ? Apply some silicone grease to the terminals and to the blades (its supposed to be dilectric grease, but I've never had problems with silicone). If there is enough spring in the contacts it will clear the grease away where it needs to make contact. If you want to protect the connections at the rear I have used that white spray grease, comes out liquid but turns thick and sticks pretty well. I use it on my banjo bolts to stop them going rusty over winter.

I'm not sure that info about the grease is particularly good advice - others will chime in if it is a complete no-no - but its what I've done for the last umpteen years, and it is infinitely better than the letting in salt water that kicks up off the UK roads.
I've always used silicone grease on the blade and the female terminal for stopping salt off the road and from our local maritime atmosphere.
 
I've always used silicone grease on the blade and the female terminal for stopping salt off the road and from our local maritime atmosphere.

I've also used silicone grease on the terminals and it has always worked well.
 
All done. Cleaned and protected. No more for a bit. Got to do go and earn some money. Thanks all for your kind advice. D
 
...Is there any reason not to use ACF 50 after final assembly.
I can't think of any reason that would prevent you from using ACF 50 after final assembly. When I was putting float aircraft into service in the Maldives, we liberally sprayed the fuel gallery at the bottom of the aircraft with ACF 50 every day. The fuel gallery & all the associated wiring was subject to the worst possible conditions - being soaked by salt water every takeoff and landing, and then sitting in a hot, humid atmosphere the rest of the time.

What I don't know is whether it would be wise to apply ACF 50 prior to final assembly.

Michael

ACF 1.jpg

ACF 2.jpg
 
Based on what the instructions for applying ACF-50 state there should be no problem applying it to the fuse box and directly to the electrical connection's contact points.
From ACF-50;
"ACF-50 contains no water and is approved for electrics so spray directly into electrical joints and components where it will prevent corrosion induced failures and high resistance joints."
They also have another product called Corrosion Block that is designed to provide the same type of protection as ACF-50 but for the more extreme enviroments found in marine applications.
 
Thanks for that, I also understand that the corrosion block is good for use in areas to avoid galvanic action. i.e. brake pins.
 
Not sure how thick over time, but you don’t need much of it. In the UK a lot my friends pay for an anti corrosion service where they strip the plastics and basically mist the whole bike with a fine spray of acf50. They protect the brake elements of course. This then protects the bike from any type of salt and weather corrosion dead in its tracks that affects many uk bikes. As ever, I am just a bit wary about applying anything directly to the contact points but feel a bit more assured now about using it as a general protective coating after assembly to avoid corrosion and to reduce the chances of possible further future damage in that area. I did notice that the top fuse that feeds the low beam should be a 15 amp fuse but was replaced with a 10 amp. Still works fine, This was the one the that was a bit melted. Guess this was a precaution to reduce further future damage. In the spring I will do bit of maintenance on the earthing points and the low beam circuit as a precaution. Cheers all. D
 
Good stuff - thanks for checking that out Andrew - its always good to have the official spec.



I suppose the only issue would be whether the fuse blade would be capable of scraping through the surface layer to make contact with the metal. I guess it would be no good on switch contacts.

How thick does ACF50 become after it has been applied for some time ? It looks pretty well set on the photos.
I have two types of acf50. One type comes in an aerosol and is petty thick and sticky. Good for holding on I guess. The other comes as a 1 litre bottle and a hand pumped spray bottle which is much thinner, about the consistency of milky coffee. The other type is the block grease. All does the same job I guess. Just different applications. Main point is anti corrosion quality and electric friendly, plus its anti galvanic property. A one stop shop? D
 
Thanks John. It’s a bit of a who dunnit I guess. I much appreciate your input. Takes a whole lot of the guessing. D
 
At 10amps, if you put 60/55w bulbs in there, then the 55w dipped beams will together draw only 9.2Amps Max at 12v. Less when the engine is running - more like 8 amps.
An incandescent bulb will use more current at a higher voltage, not less. A bulb is not a constant-power device like a motor is.
 
So is there a way that the current draw can be calculated ? Presumably the resistance changes as the filament gets hotter.
It does increase with temperature, but once it's around operating temperature, the filament's resistance doesn't change as much as it does between cold and hot. Thus, you can get close using Ohm's and Watt's Laws: V = A x R and W = V x A.*

A bulb rated at 55 watts at 12 volts uses (55/12) 4.6 amps, with a resistance of (12/4.6) 2.6 ohms. Raise the voltage to 13.8 across the same 2.6 ohms and the current rises to (13.8/2.6) 5.3 amps, producing (13.8 x 5.3) 73 watts.

That's why bulbs brighten when you rev the engine. Of course, the voltage at the bulb terminals is probably lower due to voltage drop caused by wire resistance, and you probably never actually see 13.8 volts, but it's close.

Plus, automotive bulbs are designed to survive on voltages above 12.0, so the wattage rating is approximate at best.

* Loosely translated; they're actually E = I x R and P = E x I
 
It does increase with temperature, but once it's around operating temperature, the filament's resistance doesn't change as much as it does between cold and hot. Thus, you can get close using Ohm's and Watt's Laws: V = A x R and W = V x A.*

A bulb rated at 55 watts at 12 volts uses (55/12) 4.6 amps, with a resistance of (12/4.6) 2.6 ohms. Raise the voltage to 13.8 across the same 2.6 ohms and the current rises to (13.8/2.6) 5.3 amps, producing (13.8 x 5.3) 73 watts.

That's why bulbs brighten when you rev the engine. Of course, the voltage at the bulb terminals is probably lower due to voltage drop caused by wire resistance, and you probably never actually see 13.8 volts, but it's close.

Plus, automotive bulbs are designed to survive on voltages above 12.0, so the wattage rating is approximate at best.

* Loosely translated; they're actually E = I x R and P = E x I
So Mr Fine, you knowledgeable electrical chappie, does this explain why my H4's usually shuffle off this mortal coil on longer rides where higher sustained RPM, let's say 4000 RPM for about 6 hours a day, is held. If I've got this right they are effectively higher wattage at higher volts, i.e. revs. So does this push the bulbs a step too far or not, I had put it down to long periods of sustained vibration and have switched to Osram Ultra Life H4 this year but they haven't received the above treatment yet. I'd love to know your opinion and its good to have you aboard.
Upt'North.
 
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