DCT question

My moto is....”Life is full of choices”..... and I have found it to be very true.....at least for me!

that said..... Ride whatever makes you happy. That’s what I do.....!
 
Skunkape said:
couple things that bug me about the DCT on the Wing.

1. I can't put mine in neutral without coming to a stop. Or put in gear if it's rolling. Sounds like nitpicking but it has been an inconvenience several times.
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I assume you mean with the ignition on? In the continuing search for education on these things, can you give me examples of why one might to do this?

I know one thing that would bug me would be not being able to bump start the bike, but I have only had to do it once in the last 20 years. I did need to bump start a loaner Yamaha CVT scooter once when I left the key on accidentally, but couldn't, and had to trailer it to the shop from my son's house. For the most part though, bump starting should not be an issue as long as batteries are maintained and replaced say every 4 years.
 
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Sadlsor said:
You are exactly the SECOND individual to make that mistake in 15 years... and I had to remind the first, then it would have to be "SADLOSR", wouldn't it?
DISCLAIMER: I mean on disrespekt to anyno who is dyselxic.
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When I saw it the first time, my mind read it as “Sad Sailor”. After a double take and rolling it around in my mouth and mind a bit, I realized it was Saddle Sore.....

I like it.....
 
I enjoyed the back and forth banter on this thread. I learned a few things about DCT.
Question - does the DCT allow for coast mode?
I grew up on a bicycle and still enjoy pulling back on the ST clutch and letting the her just coast down the road sometimes. A different feeling...
 
I think that is what Skunkape was saying in his post that he cant put it in neutral from Drive Mode on his Goldwing DCT while moving
 
the Ferret said:
[QUOTE="Skunkape, post: 2288379, member: 14147"

1. I can't put mine in neutral without coming to a stop. Or put in gear if it's rolling. Sounds like nitpicking but it has been an inconvenience several times.
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I assume you mean with the ignition on? In the continuing search for education on these things, can you give me examples of why one might to do this?

[/QUOTE]

Yes ignition on and engine running.

On other bikes I sometimes pop the bike in neutral and turn it off and coast into where I'm going.

Sometimes when I am getting ready to take off from wherever I am it may be sloped even if you can't see it and I usually let bike start rolling put it in gear and go. Not this one. Any movement at all and it won't go in or out of gear.

The worst experience was wife and I at very very busy overlook in the mountains. With wife on board I was backing out of a parking place that sloped back and to the side and gravely. I had it in reverse backing from between two cars. Two cars trying to be the first in my parking place. Tried to take it out of reverse while moving back and put it in drive. At the time I didn't really know it wouldn't do this. If I could have put it in drive I could have just ridden away. Had to completely stop which doesn't sound like a big deal but it was at the time. Finally got it out of reverse and for some reason let it roll ever so slightly and wouldn't go in drive while cars were trying to run over me.

The other reason this bugs me is when I go to the car wash I put it on the center stand in gear and let the rear wheel spin while spraying it off. Gotta hit the rear brake to get it to stop spinning to be able to take it out of gear. Just bugs me.
 
On other bikes I sometimes pop the bike in neutral and turn it off and coast into where I'm going.
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Not being able to coast in neutral could make it harder to diagnose drive-line issues sometimes.

I have read that there are jurisdictions that have regulations which make it illegal to coast in neutral on a motorcycle. I am not sure if the same applies to cars or exactly what the reasoning behind these regulations is, but if the motorcycle is in motion the transmission must be in a gear. Maybe the operation of the DCT was designed to take this in to account to satisfy the bureaucrats and be compliant where such regulations exist and everywhere else just gets the same logic.

Or, is it simply to protect the transmission from damage because of the way a DCT works?
 
Skunkape said:
Not sure about the Africa Twin, but a couple things that bug me about the DCT on the Wing.

1. I can't put mine in neutral without coming to a stop. Or put in gear if it's rolling. Sounds like nitpicking but it has been an inconvenience several times.

2. While in manual mode I would like it to stay in the gear I put it in without automatically down shifting. Never pushed it hard enough for it to force an upshift while in manual mode. It would be very helpful to be able to put bike in second gear and have it stay there while doing slow maneuvers. I use rain mode but it's not the same.

That being said I love mine.

My father told me that when automatic transmissions came out his father said "I'll never pay a machine to shift gears for me". He eventually did.
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Thanks for describing those "quirks". But help to make me understand... if you use manual mode and choose 2nd gear, it will override your choice and downshift when you slow down? That's not really the kind of manual mode I would prefer.

I don't mind if the bike prevents me from doing something stupid, but I don't want it trying to be smarter than me (like ignoring my request for neutral while still rolling, albeit slowly).
 
ddemair said:
if you use manual mode and choose 2nd gear, it will override your choice and downshift when you slow down? That's not really the kind of manual mode I would prefer.
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Correct, it will automatically downshift while in manual mode as you slow down and you can't keep it from doing it. It's probably a good thing as it will be in a gear good for accelerating if you forgot to downshift. It will also up shift if you get the revs to high, however I've never reached that rpm. I would just like to be able to use second for slow speed maneuvers.

It's really pretty slick, I was just referring to the post that said you have total control or something like that.

Go get a test ride. I was a die hard "shifting is riding" kinda guy, but it's cool. I still have a shift bike for when the mood hits.
 
Skunkape said:
Correct, it will automatically downshift while in manual mode as you slow down and you can't keep it from doing it. It's probably a good thing as it will be in a gear good for accelerating if you forgot to downshift. It will also up shift if you get the revs to high, however I've never reached that rpm. I would just like to be able to use second for slow speed maneuvers.

It's really pretty slick, I was just referring to the post that said you have total control or something like that.

Go get a test ride. I was a die hard "shifting is riding" kinda guy, but it's cool. I still have a shift bike for when the mood hits.
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To be clear, if Manual mode is chosen when in 2nd gear the bike will downshift to 1st when slowing down or coming to a stop. It will go to idle speed in 1st gear as if you pulled in the clutch on a manual bike and then stopped in gear. It won't let you stall the bike as you slow down below the appropriate speed for that gear if you wanted to then accelerate if called upon to do so. If Manual is chosen in any gear and the throttle is opened it will accelerate to red line in that gear. Once at the rev limiter it will just stay there bumping the limiter, it won't upshift to the next gear.

Not being able to coast in neutral could make it harder to diagnose drive-line issues sometimes.

I have read that there are jurisdictions that have regulations which make it illegal to coast in neutral on a motorcycle. I am not sure if the same applies to cars or exactly what the reasoning behind these regulations is, but if the motorcycle is in motion the transmission must be in a gear. Maybe the operation of the DCT was designed to take this in to account to satisfy the bureaucrats and be compliant where such regulations exist and everywhere else just gets the same logic.

Or, is it simply to protect the transmission from damage because of the way a DCT works?
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I think it more the latter due to the design of sequentially shifting constant mesh transmissions that motorcycles use. To coast at highway speeds you pull in the clutch to coast down, you don't choose N from 60. For instance if you are cruising at 60 mph in top gear with a manual transmission you wouldn't be able to downshift down gear to gear 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, N to find neutral, from 60 anyway. You would be called upon to rev match the downshifts and after three or four the bike would eventually be above redline for the next lower gear. To continue down to the next lower gear you would execute a "money shift" that would over rev the engine, possibly bending valves or breaking something in the drivetrain. Manual transmission car drivers do this when they accidently miss the gate and perhaps go from 6th to 3rd instead of 5th they meant to do. If you coasted down a grade from N to begin with, you wouldn't be able choose 2nd after a certain speed without a great grinding of the gears and possible damage. DCT transmissions are still constant mesh transmissions very similar to any manual one, they just have the software and hardware to shift the gears with an electric motor moving the shift forks instead of a toe lever.
 
There's gotta be either a fluid coupling (like a torque converter) or some type of clutch since it doesn't stall when you stop.
 
Larry Fine said:
There's gotta be either a fluid coupling (like a torque converter) or some type of clutch since it doesn't stall when you stop.
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Dual CLUTCH Transmission is a clue. It needs a black box to poll sensors that monitor road speed, engine rpm, transmission mainshaft rotation speeds and throttle setting. The black box controls the clutches which engage or disengage respective odd & even mainshafts and gears on those shafts with oil pressure routed through a couple of valves. The clutch on the shaft with 1st, 3rd, and 5th gear handles starting and stopping duties.
 
dduelin said:
Dual CLUTCH Transmission is a clue. It needs a black box to poll sensors that monitor road speed, engine rpm, transmission mainshaft rotation speeds and throttle setting. The black box controls the clutches which engage or disengage respective odd & even mainshafts and gears on those shafts with oil pressure routed through a couple of valves. The clutch on the shaft with 1st, 3rd, and 5th gear handles starting and stopping duties.
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So, the appropriate clutch only engages when the RPMs increase? Can it be heard and/or felt engaging?
 
Larry Fine said:
So, the appropriate clutch only engages when the RPMs increase? Can it be heard and/or felt engaging?
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You really can't hear or feel the clutches engage or disengage but you can at times hear and feel the transmission shift when you are coming to a stop.
 
dduelin said:
I think it more the latter due to the design of sequentially shifting constant mesh transmissions that motorcycles use. To coast at highway speeds you pull in the clutch to coast down, you don't choose N from 60. For instance if you are cruising at 60 mph in top gear with a manual transmission you wouldn't be able to downshift down gear to gear 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, N to find neutral, from 60 anyway.
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I don't really know much about how DCT transmissions work so I defer to your experience on that. I do know for a fact however, that an ST1300 can be shifted from fifth to neutral from over 60 MPH without much difficulty as I have done it several times.
 
dduelin said:
Once at the rev limiter it will just stay there bumping the limiter, it won't upshift to the next gear.
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Didn't know that. I thought I had heard it would upshift. Like I said I haven't tried it as I don't like to abuse things. I like the rev limiter thing better than an unwanted upshift.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
I don't really know much about how DCT transmissions work so I defer to your experience on that. I do know for a fact however, that an ST1300 can be shifted from fifth to neutral from over 60 MPH without much difficulty as I have done it several times.
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As I recall the rev limiter on my 2005 held 1st gear to about 52 mph, 2nd to about 70 mph. The limiter would protect the engine from over revving when accelerating but no rev limiter can stop an over rev when downshifting. What did you think would happen if you missed N and went to 1st?
 
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