Motor oil

[ReSTored]

I used Rotella non synthetic 15w-40 T4 without issues. It's JASO MA/MA2 certified. Honda did not stipulate that synthetic oil was required and, IMHO, you don't really need synthetic for a bike designed in the late 80's. Purchased by the 18.9 L pail for about $60.

T6, fully synthetic is good as well, at least twice the cost. I think T6 is probably a better oil than the T4, but having said this, many thousands of people have run the 1100 on T4 for millions of miles without issue. I don't remember ever hearing anywhere that synthetic oils might not be good for an older motorcycle with a wet clutch and I certainly don't remember any forum member posting any issues related to the use of Rotella T4.

T5, synthetic blend is not JASO MA, MA2 certified, so I wouldn't use it.

Full Synthetic and Synthetic Blend Oil Products | Shell Rotella®

View the Shell Rotella line of full synthetic and synthetic blend oils, providing protection against wear, deposits and oil breakdown, with enhancements in temperature performance.

rotella.shell.com

 

[ColinW1981]

I love new oil threads almost as much as I love old moly vs. new moly.
Oh me? Yeah, whatever I90 Motorsports puts in when they do services. It's probably Walmart oil. They charge me for Honda oil though...

 

[Chris09]

About $56.00 with taxes Canadian from the Honda Center in the lower mainland. I was thinking of possibly using 10 30 because of the cooler weather I'd ordinarily be driving in but I'm not gonna be doing any coldest rides.

 

[Erdoc48]

T6 fan here (is JASO rated for motorcycles)- I use the 5W-40 or 0W-40 version (depending on what is available)- years later and no issues with clutch slippage. Also tends to be less expensive in a gallon jug (I believe like $5.50/qt, but that will likely change soon with the price of oil spiking).

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Andrew, I'm curious as to why you never once mentioned what oil caused your clutch to slip, so we will know to avoid it.

I didn't mention it because the problem is caused by constantly changing oil and labeling standards, not specific to any particular brand of oil. It was an Esso (Exxon in the US) standard 10W40 automotive engine mineral oil. I had been using that same oil for years in a Honda Shadow that I had put about 200, 000 KM on by that time without an issue. I started having clutch slippage and found out about the changes to oil and labeling standards that I wrote about in post # 17 above. After switching to a JASO MA certified oil, the clutch slippage went away, and I rode that Shadow for another 100,000 KM or so. That motorcycle is still on the road with the same clutch in it.

 

[red one]

I didn't mention it because the problem is caused by constantly changing oil and labeling standards, not specific to any particular brand of oil. It was an Esso (Exxon in the US) standard 10W40 automotive engine mineral oil. I had been using that same oil for years in a Honda Shadow that I had put about 200, 000 KM on by that time without an issue. I started having clutch slippage and found out about the changes to oil and labeling standards that I wrote about in post # 17 above. After switching to a JASO MA certified oil, the clutch slippage went away, and I rode that Shadow for another 100,000 KM or so. That motorcycle is still on the road with the same clutch in it.

I used Castrol GTX 20W 50 in my old air cooled Kawasaki for over 15 years until like you my clutch slipped a little. So yeah it does happen. Kawasaki oil from the dealer was the cure. For the 1100 I've owned for 22 years The Factory fill GN 10W 40 has been proven to be very reliable. Think I pay $20.00 per gallon. Just dump it in and no worries. No guessing. This is the same oil that lubricates the new Goldwings.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I used Rotella non synthetic 15w-40 T4 without issues. It's JASO MA/MA2 certified.

This is an example of what I wrote about in post 17.

They mention MA/MA 2 under specifications and approvals, but they don't distinguish which one is which. I don't know which ones they are claiming that they meet the specifications of, and which one they actually have certification for. I do know that there is no JASO MA certification number listed, which is a requirement if it is JASO certified. This tells me that they claim that it meets the JASO specifications, but that is only their claim. If they did have it certified JASO MA/MA 2, why is there no approval number.

I have no idea about previous versions of this oil, but from what is on the Shell website as of when I am writing this, this oil does not have a JASO certification number listed anywhere.

More importantly, according to the latest list of certified oils that JASO just released March 01, 2022, it is not JASO certified.
The only Shell oils that have JASO certification is the Shell Advance 4T line.

 

[Chris09]

$20.00 in Illinois [GN Oil] vs $56.00 here in Canada "BC, the best place on earth" I think is the old slogan to the proletariat last I checked, but price check sounds about right.
My only trusted knowledge on oil came from my the article in October '83 issue of cycle world - All about oil - given what was knowable at the time made the most sense, and my own empirically undeniable knowledge - the splursh machine.
I worked for a contractor at Esso Strathcona Refinery in Edmonton and observed the filling of 1 litre bottles of variously labeled oil containers from the same splursh machine; I asked well, there must be... different splurshes for different labels... at least... coming out of the same splursher supply line... somehow.

 

[ST Gui]

I used Rotella non synthetic 15w-40 T4 without issues. It's JASO MA/MA2 certified.

This is what I use and no problems either.
BUT— I'm pretty sure it's not JASO MA/MA2 certified. It may have been at one time – I dunno. Currently I believe the jug states '...meets certification standards' or some such language.

Meeting standards is not the same as being certified to meet standards. IIRC somebody hear said that there's actually no formal testing to see that a manufacturer is meeting the standards. So it's scout's honor all around anyway.

 

[CDNolddude]

Just curious, what oil are you guys using?

I am happy with Motul full synthetic. About $75 in Ontario.
leave it in for 12k klm or the end of the season if shorter.
bike seems to run and shift well with it.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

IIRC somebody hear said that there's actually no formal testing to see that a manufacturer is meeting the standards. So it's scout's honor all around anyway.

I do know that for an oil to be granted certification by JASO, there are very specific, detailed and controlled test results that must be submitted to JASO. The test results that are submitted must have been conducted to the JASO T 903 laboratory test standard, and certified by the testing facility that this is so. Whether those tests have to be done by an independent third party test facility that has JASO accreditation, or whether the oil supplier can conduct the tests themselves in their own labs, I have no idea.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Thank you @Andrew Shadow.

Not exactly sure what for John, but hopefully some of what I wrote was of use to you.

I had wrongly assumed that if MA is good, MA1 and MA2 would be the next steps up.
Not so. They have specific qualities for specific bikes:

I didn't want to get in to that much detail in my initial post, but you are correct. I would have to look it up again, but I seem to recall that the MA1 and MA2 standards were created and released a long time after the ST1300 was launched. They were the result of much tighter controls being required to prevent damage to ever more precise emission control systems that came after the ST1300 was designed. I believe that using the MA2 is not essential for the ST1300 because it predates the use of the newer emission control technologies, and that an oil that is MA certified meets the requirements for the ST1300. This is from memory however. Anyone making an engine oil choice bears the responsibility of checking for themselves as I make no claim of being a reliable advisor on lubrication technology.

It seems that 10w30 is their recommendation for the STs

Honda issued a change to their recommended oils in 2007. All Honda street motorcycles that previously had a recommendation to use Honda GN4 or HP4 10W40, starting in 2007 the recommendation became to use Honda GN4 or HP4S 10W30. All with a service rating of SJ.

 

[ReSTored]

................ I do know that there is no JASO MA certification number listed, which is a requirement if it is JASO certified.

.................BUT— I'm pretty sure it's not JASO MA/MA2 certified. It may have been at one time – I dunno. ..................

Yes, both right. However, I do remember reading somewhere that Shell did have JASO certification at one point and formally met the MA + MA2 standards. Shell determined that the fees / costs required to have actual JASO certification were, in their opinion, excessive and they let the formal certification expire, but continued to meet the spec.

This begs the question as to what oil products actually have JASO certification vs. just claiming to meet the standard, and if so, would you trust the organization's claim of performance? IMHO, and I'm often wrong....., I'd be inclined to believe Shell's claim that they meet the standard based on their potential liability for not doing so as well as my personal experience with T4 + the experience of forum members in general.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

This begs the question as to what oil products actually have JASO certification vs. just claiming to meet the standard, and if so,

JASO publishes an updated list of all JASO certified oils on a regular basis, so it is easy to check if a person wanted to.

and if so, would you trust the organization's claim of performance?

The claim is supposed to be verified by JASO protocols and test methodology before the certification is granted, so the decision over trust is with regards to JASO I would guess. Once the certification is granted, I have no idea if there is any ongoing follow-up verification.

 

[dduelin]

It’s moot about meeting or exceeding JASO standards. Rotella 5w40 and 15w40 are no longer API certified for gas engine use and haven’t been nearly for 5 years.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

T6 fan here (is JASO rated for motorcycles)- I use the 5W-40 or 0W-40 version (depending on what is available)- years later and no issues with clutch slippage. Also tends to be less expensive in a gallon jug (I believe like $5.50/qt, but that will likely change soon with the price of oil spiking).

Just an F.Y.I., not because I have any information or opinion about whether this oil has the potential to cause clutch slippage or not, but just taking the opportunity to increase awareness of the misleading labeling that the marketing departments create. For anyone looking at this oil, and for whom the JASO MA certification is important, neither of these Shell Rotella oils have JASO MA certification, if that is what was meant by JASO rated.

This is the same scenario that I wrote about in post 17 & 27, where the labeling can be misleading. An oil supplier, in this case Shell, states a claims on their label that JASO MA/MA 2 is a specification that this oil meets. That may very well be completely true. However, the way that they mix that statement in with the list of legitimate approvals that they do have makes it appear at a glance that they do have this certification as well. Shell does not list any JASO MA certification, nor do they claim that they have it. JASO has not issued any MA certification for any of the Rotella line. The only Shell oils that have a current and valid JASO MA certification as of March 01, 2022 is the Shell Advance 4T oils.

A note regarding the Shell Rotella oils having JASO MA certification.
My problems with motorcycle oil that I wrote about in post 17 began back in 2013. Back then, and ever since, people have been claiming that the Shell Rotella line of oils have JASO MA certification. Many people also have told me that it used to be JASO certified, and that Shell was no longer willing to pay the fee to have the JASO certification so they dropped it, but the oil is still the same. I have checked for this certification many times since 2013. I have never seen a valid JASO MA certification for a Shell Rotella oil. The oil containers always said something to the effect that the oil met the specifications of JASO MA, but there was never a valid JASO certification listed to support that claim. I also contacted Shell directly and asked them. Shell told me themselves in writing that the Rotella line of oils was never submitted for JASO MA certification, and that they had no plans to do so at that time anyway.

My point here is not to dissuade anyone from using Shell Rotella oils. I have no doubt that they are quality oils. I have used them in my motorcycle myself, based on recommendations that I read on this forum. Everyone makes their own choice, and I just want people to be aware that the marketing departments of these companies manipulate the labels on their products to make it appear that the their product has more industry accreditation, approvals and credibility than it does.
As with most things, misleading marketing is often at play, so buyer beware.

 

[larryg]

I used Rotella non synthetic 15w-40 T4 without issues. It's JASO MA/MA2 certified. Honda did not stipulate that synthetic oil was required and, IMHO, you don't really need synthetic for a bike designed in the late 80's. Purchased by the 18.9 L pail for about $60.

T6, fully synthetic is good as well, at least twice the cost. I think T6 is probably a better oil than the T4.... ,

I've been using Rotella T-4 in my 1980 CB900, for the past 10 years without issue - mainly because of the lower cost, as I change it in that bike every 1200 miles.
Reason being that engine is known for really dirtying up the oil, so following the recommendation to change it frequently from the CB900 forum.

On the ST1300 I spend a bit more cash, and use T6 15W-40, which I change once per season - usually between 5 to 8,000 miles for me. Again, no issues with it in 10 years.
But, if my clutch starts slipping I'll certainly know what happened - Thanks Andrew !

BTW, does anybody know why Rotella, especially T6, has disappeared everywhere ??
I had a heck of a time trying to find a gallon this year, finally did but had to pay $34 for it. (was $23 at Walmart last year).

 

[dwalby]

FWIW, I don't think Mobil 1 (the automobile version, not the bike specific stuff) was ever JASO certified, and people on this forum have been using it for years without any problems.

 

[Horsehead]

BTW, does anybody know why Rotella, especially T6, has disappeared everywhere ??
I had a heck of a time trying to find a gallon this year, finally did but had to pay $34 for it. (was $23 at Walmart last year).

An employee at a local auto parts store told me that certain Shell employees were on strike causing the production of certain products (like Rotella T6) to basically come to a halt. I didn't verify that though, so take it with a grain of salt. I do know that I couldn't find it anywhere, and my friend who uses it in his Cummins also couldn't find it.

 

[red one]

FWIW, I don't think Mobil 1 (the automobile version, not the bike specific stuff) was ever JASO certified, and people on this forum have been using it for years without any problems.

Back in the early 70's and 80's everybody I knew including some HD riders were using the automotive oil brand Castrol GTX that was advertised for small 4 cylinder engines that got worked harder and operated at higher temperatures therefore this oil was resistant to oil shear. Brilliant marketing without specifically saying "for motorcycles". But the crazy thing is it worked well and I personally used it for years until one day on the highway my rpms were alot higher than they should be and I traced it to clutch slippage. Today I just use what's worked for years in my cars and bike. Alot of people think that synthetic oil is bad for your motorcycle and it's not its the additive package that's dumped in when oil is brewed. If the same amount was dumped into non synthetic oil it would be just as slippery.