Motor oil

Thanks. I ended up ordering some Castrol motorcycle oil on Amazon while it was still cheap.

The point is, don't wait till your next oil change to get your oil. One of the least expensive oil options for cars is Costco synthetic oil. I went yesterday to the store to get some in 5W-30 and they didn't have any. Only the higher priced Mobil 1. I had to go to the Business Center also, and found it there. In six months if I need oil for the car...what will be available?

I do the same for tires. Buy them when a rebate is in effect and put them in the garage.

If you don't have a garage, the oil cases would work to hold your coffee table up in the living room. Not sure what the wife would say to that though. ;)

Chris
 
Igofar said:
That's the older, or other Premium blue that I've used, but the stuff I'm using now is marked ONE SOLUTION for gas/diesel/propane etc.
I wonder if there is any difference?
As far as your question (wonder) about any other factors, both of these bikes used premium fuel, and didn't use any aftermarket additives or seafoam/mmo/stabil etc.
Both bikes were the "still in the crate" PD bikes being sold lately.
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The additives I was referencing were in the oil itself, calcium, magnesium, boron ect.
 
I don’t worry about what it starts out as, but how it holds up UOA numbers are more believable that advertising hype and promises etc.
Over the years my UOA’s have been as good, or better than some of the most expensive synthetic oil.
The valvoline oil is the Cummins house brand, and they will extend 5,000 miles on your OCI under warranty if it’s used.
 
I've used Shell Rotella T4 (conventional) 15W40 - price, high ZDDP zinc additives, and the fact I've not had any issues in 29K miles. Priced right. I change my oil too often (twice a season) for 3-7K miles/year - an oil change is easy and keeps the engine in great shape.
 
BigredST1100 said:
I've used Shell Rotella T4 (conventional) 15W40 - price, high ZDDP zinc additives, and the fact I've not had any issues in 29K miles. Priced right. I change my oil too often (twice a season) for 3-7K miles/year - an oil change is easy and keeps the engine in great shape.
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Except now the oil you were using is no longer rated for gas engines, and we are starting to see clutch slipping issues when folks use it now.
 
I'll definitely keep an eye out for clutch issues, but so far with 81K on my bike, I have no issues with Shell Rotella T6. It doesn't use any oil, either.

Chris
 
I changed the windshield on my Pontiac [finally] last year, kept all the stickers; didn't put them back on, but was rummaging around a couple weeks ago and found that one was Rotella T6, just a little windshield reminder. I don't know much about the car previous to the previous owner that I bought it from, [other than he must have really hated his kids; plastic still on the back seat; still on, maybe something we both had in common] but I know he never changed the oil, I mean, not the original guy, the second guy, however, someone did, and they must have thought a lot of Shell, 68,000 original miles, some odd what is it now, [I'm better with farenheit] fifty seven years, anyway, point being, did the compression on it after I got it, and I still have the same argument with my Pontiac buddy who insists it can not be original, however, I've subjected it to a few of my friends who beg to differ, long way around, maybe this Shell Oil is pretty good.
 
Chris09 said:
...long way around, maybe this Shell Oil is pretty good.
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I was using Delco Diesel oil from Costco in a Suzuki Burgman 400 for years. I'd read from forum participants that Shell Rotella was good, but this was cheap, in the right viscosity and the bike didn't have a clutch to worry about.

It's been many years now, but I spent an afternoon perusing "Bob is the Oil Guy's" forum. In the end, I realized a couple things.
  1. Experts on the Bob is the Oil Guy's forum are as much of experts on oil as any of us. They talk a good line, but few if any have ever run their engines for 200,000 miles and torn the engine down to see if the oil they used caused damage or not. But they know how to sound like experts.
  2. Something they said did make sense. Commercial diesel owners aren't influenced by fancy advertising on the outside of oil containers. Taking a big diesel rig down for an oil change costs them a lot of money, whether it is a diesel engine on a ferry, on a bull dozer on a job site, or on a long haul Kenilworth. So they stick with what they know works. Shell Rotella is one of those oils. Kenilworth and other semi trucks will sometimes go 30-50K between oil changes. Granted they use special filters, but they again, stick with what they know works. Show me a car oil that survives that kind of abuse. Or a "motorcycle" oil.
We tend to baby our motorcycles like they are something that needs to be pampered. I was traveling through Wyoming and came across a BMW GS owner who pulled into a MacDonald's at the same time. He was on the phone immediately trying to find a certified BMW mechanic to change his oil because it was due and couldn't go on till he found one. :rolleyes: That's dumb unless you're going around the world. Change it before you go, or when you get home.

What's the difference between "diesel" oil, "car" oil and "motorcycle" oil? Car oil may have friction modifiers that could mess up the clutch. I've heard that...not sure how bad it really can get. Diesel oil has great shear strength and has strong cleaning additives. Motorcycle oil has a JASO certification label on it and says "motorcycle". The last, allows them to double the price per quart you're charged. But hey...remember your bike is so fragile, you can't take a chance with it. Shell Rotella also has the JASO designation...but doesn't say "motorcycle", so it is fairly inexpensive...especially compared to "motorcycle" oils. But then again, it has great shear strength and strong cleaning additives. That can't be good for a motorcycle engine. ;)

Plus, it says "diesel", not "motorcycle" on the container. Can't be good.

I'm not an expert, despite posting on the Internet. :D But I know what has worked for years on my bikes. And I know what most motorcycle owners recommend, and for good reasons.

I just saw something on YouTube where someone was comparing the various Shell Rotella oils. If I remember right, the T5 Synthetic Blend has a high amount of molybdenum. That might be what the owners with clutch slipping were using that Igofar saw. But the T4 and T6 had virtually none.

Chris
 
While I couldn't agree more with your comments.....all except the last paragraph....The Rotella that was used in both bikes was the straight on dino, or full synthetic versions.
I don't buy into the BLEND versions, is because they won't disclose what the amount is etc. and I've heard over the years, from folks that worked for some of these companies, that they simply put about a cap full of synthetic stuff in a normal jug of the standard stuff so that they can upsell it as a blend and ask more money for it.
urban myth? disgruntled ex-employees? or fact? your guess is as good as mine ;)
If you start perusing the diesel forums, whether its small trucks, or semi's, you'll see that Chevron Delo, Mobil Delvac 1300, and Valvoline sell more HDEO's than shell....is it because they know it works better?
I've done UOA's on just about every brand available, and Delo and Valvoline have always returned much better numbers than Shell.
YMMV
 
Daboo said:
I was using Delco Diesel oil from Costco in a Suzuki Burgman 400 for years. I'd read from forum participants that Shell Rotella was good, but this was cheap, in the right viscosity and the bike didn't have a clutch to worry about.

It's been many years now, but I spent an afternoon perusing "Bob is the Oil Guy's" forum. In the end, I realized a couple things.
  1. Experts on the Bob is the Oil Guy's forum are as much of experts on oil as any of us. They talk a good line, but few if any have ever run their engines for 200,000 miles and torn the engine down to see if the oil they used caused damage or not. But they know how to sound like experts.
  2. Something they said did make sense. Commercial diesel owners aren't influenced by fancy advertising on the outside of oil containers. Taking a big diesel rig down for an oil change costs them a lot of money, whether it is a diesel engine on a ferry, on a bull dozer on a job site, or on a long haul Kenilworth. So they stick with what they know works. Shell Rotella is one of those oils. Kenilworth and other semi trucks will sometimes go 30-50K between oil changes. Granted they use special filters, but they again, stick with what they know works. Show me a car oil that survives that kind of abuse. Or a "motorcycle" oil.
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Big difference here it semi trucks take 12 to 15 gallons of oil. Mercedes Benzs recomend 10-12k on many of the models that take 8-9 quarts of oil
 
Shell Rotella also has the JASO designation...
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Not a statement of whether or not Shell Rotella is a good oil, just a clarification for anyone who may be reading this;
As of this writing, none of the Shell Rotella oils have the JASO MA certification, which is the specification called out for wet clutch operation.

The only JASO MA certified Shell oils are their motorcycle specific Shell Advance 4T line of oils.
 
Daboo said:
But hey...remember your bike is so fragile, you can't take a chance with it. But then again, it has great shear strength and strong cleaning additives. That can't be good for a motorcycle engine. ;)



Chris
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So why do you think cleaning additives and great shear strength is bad for motorcycles? Shear strength it great for camshafts and whats so fragile about a motorcycle engine? or was that some sarcasm I missed.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
Not a statement of whether or not Shell Rotella is a good oil, just a clarification for anyone who may be reading this;
As of this writing, none of the Shell Rotella oils have the JASO MA certification, which is the specification called out for wet clutch operation.

The only JASO MA certified Shell oils are their motorcycle specific Shell Advance 4T line of oils.
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I wonder if its a Canada thing....Every bottle of Rotella T at Autozone last night had JASO MA on the back of the bottle?
I don't think its old stock, as they refill this stuff weekly around here with all the trucks etc.
 
Igofar said:
I wonder if its a Canada thing....Every bottle of Rotella T at Autozone last night had JASO MA on the back of the bottle?
I don't think its old stock, as they refill this stuff weekly around here with all the trucks etc.
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Actually Larry, the information is from Shell USA, and they do not list JASO MA certification on the bottle, they never have with the Rotella line of oils.
It is one of the marketing tricks that the oil companies employ, and that I have been trying to make people aware of for a while now. They mix the specifications and the approvals all together in one paragraph so that it is difficult to tell which is which. It confuses the consumer so that we think that their product has industry approvals that it does not actually have.

In the case of the Rotella T6 oils;
The below is taken directly from Shell's USA website. This is what they list for Shell Rotella T6 15W40 oil. This is also what I have always seen on every bottle of Rotella T6 that I have ever looked at.

They list JASO DH-2, MA/MA 2 under the SPECIFICATIONS AND APPROVALS.
In this case, JASO MA is one of the specifications that Shell claims that this oil meets. However, that is their claim, and it is a claim that is not supported by any JASO certification.
They do not list any JASO certification number to authenticate and back-up that claim, which is a labeling requirement. This is because they do not have JASO MA certification for this oil- I looked it up again this morning. I have also looked it up many times over the years and have never seen a JASO MA certification for this oil.

Shell also confirmed to me themselves in writing via an email that the Rotella line of oil was never submitted to JASO for MA certification.

I am by no means claiming that using this oil in a wet clutch will result in clutch slippage. I simply want people to be aware that the marketing departments play fast and loose with the words sometimes. Having actual JASO MA certification is different from simply claiming that your products meets the requirements of JASO MA.

With all of the changes to labeling for engine oils that have taken place since 2007, it is more difficult than ever to know what we are using when we are not using motorcycle specific oil.
Not using motorcycle specific oil is fine if you know what you are using is not harmful, but it is increasingly more difficult to know that as the labeling requirements continue to change.
Its the old adage- trust, but verify.


1649703956611.png
 
Igofar said:
I wonder if its a Canada thing....Every bottle of Rotella T at Autozone last night had JASO MA on the back of the bottle?
I don't think its old stock, as they refill this stuff weekly around here with all the trucks etc.
Click to expand...
It might be, I've bought T4 the past few years with the JASO MA on the back, but this year it seems to be gone?
 
Like I said, I wonder if its different in Canada?
I agree with you 100% that it was NEVER certified (kind of dishonest and misleading if you ask me)
But the print of the bottle(s) here stateside are still confusing folks.
Why would an oil company care, or spend money to certify something that is not in their target market.


Product description
Product Description
Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 Diesel Engine Oil is a full synthetic motor oil that features exclusive Triple Protection Plus technology, formulated with fully synthetic base oils plus advanced additives to protect against wear, deposits and oil breakdown PLUS better low temperature flow and increased fuel economy performance, without compromising durability, compared to conventional SAE 15W-40 oils. Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 engine oil provides:

Better Fuel Economy
This full synthetic heavy-duty engine oil offers enhanced fuel economy capability of 1. 5% that can save money in fuel consumption, without compromising engine protection or durability.

Improved Wear Performance
Full synthetic CK-4 heavy duty engine oil provides a significantly increased level of protection against harmful engine wear when compared to previous generation API CJ-4 engine oils.

Improved Deposit Control
The advanced multi-functional dispersant additives in combination with synthetic base oils provide an enhanced level of protection against the effects of soot, dirt and other contaminants.

Improved Heat Resistance
Full synthetic heavy-duty engine oil resists breakdown by heat to provide continuous protection throughout the service interval.

Emissions System Compatibility
Advanced low-ash formulation helps control blocking of or poisoning of exhaust after-treatment devices, helping maintain vehicle emission compliance and engine fuel efficiency.

Outstanding Shear Stability
Shell Rotella T6 synthetic oil resists viscosity loss through shear and will maintain optimal pressure in the engine.

Specifications, Approvals and Recommendations

API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4
ACEA E9
Allison TES 439
Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3
Cummins CES 20086; 20081
Detroit Fluid Specification (DFS) 93K222, 93K218
Ford WSS-M2C171-F1
JASO DH-2
JASO MA/MA2
MAN M3575
MB-Approval 228. 31
Volvo VDS-4. 5, 4
 
And this is from a shell page, tell me this is not misleading….
 

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