1300RT Reveal 4/29

The $31K price doesn't see out of line compared to similar flagship bikes. Being a long time since someone bought a new high-end ride I can see some justification for sticker-shock. I'm sure someone once said "What's next? Electric starters? Reverse gear? Fuel gauges? Adjustable wind shields? Linked brakes? Fuel Injection? Nobody needs a bike bigger than 640cc." Just more things to go wrong. Reserve levers were simple. Use your odo to monitor fuel level. Worked great. Unless you forgot to put the lever back after fill-up.

So it's doesn't surprise me that a manufacturer will add features to help sell a new model. Old men can sit around crabbing about how this or that "was good enough for me and should be for anyone smart as me" and "if you can't kick start a bike you shouldn't be riding anyway dad-gummit!" It doesn't sell bikes.

There's nothing wrong with being happy with what you have. It's a comfort zone. Doesn't mean someone else can't want something different or new. The older we get the more foreign the laws of economics seem. To that end I think we'll see another spike is prices that could be with us for quite awhile. Me I don't care. I'm not in the market for a new bike yet. I'm selling my T-bills for next month's food budget.
 
the Ferret said:
Just curious? What does the 1300 BMW twin do, that the less than 1/2 the price Honda NT 1100 twin doesn't do, besides make you manually shift it?
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If it is like previous BMW/Honda comparisons it has better suspension, better brakes, better handling, more rider machine interface tech. That apparently is worth something as BMW still sells a sport touring bike in numbers that Honda aspires to achieve.
 
dduelin said:
If it is like previous BMW/Honda comparisons it has better suspension, better brakes, better handling, more rider machine interface tech. That apparently is worth something as BMW still sells a sport touring bike in numbers that Honda aspires to achieve.
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That makes a lot of sense I guess for some people. For me who's just a "good enough" kinda guy, that has never in 60 years and 31 motorcycles ever bought a custom seat, or custom suspension and just uses oem brake pads, the extra $ in initial purchase price is just money I could have spent on tires, gas, mediocre meals and motel rooms.

Isn't the NT the largest selling sport touring bike in Europe?
 
the Ferret said:
Just curious? What does the 1300 BMW twin do, that the less than 1/2 the price Honda NT 1100 twin doesn't do, besides make you manually shift it?
Click to expand...
I can remember when I was in college, a friend bought a brand new Honda 750 and toured the USA. The internet says it had 58 hp. That was considered a big bike back then. I think it might've even had electric start. ;)

And now, the R1300 RT is out and of course, it is the bike you need for touring. Bigger, faster, more expensive...and more profitable. It's also heavier (portly) and will set you back as much as a house payment will...and maybe be far more than you need for the purpose.

There's not many reviews in the magazines about the next rung down. The NT1100 will do everything a R1300RT will do ...except better in many ways. Lighter. Pretty sporty. And it will leave you a few pennies in your pocket when done. But it doesn't help the company's profit margin nearly as much.

Chris
 
Priorities

My younger brother is a "Cadillac" man, and by that I don't mean he drives a Cadillac (when we were young a Cadillac was something to strive for and to own to show that you had "made it" .... Me? I'm a Good Enough man". (He actually drives a C8 Corvette while I drive a 4 cyl Toyota Camry). But my brother buys nothing but top shelf stuff. He'll spend $100 on a shirt at Duluth and since it's expensive, he calls it "Cadillac". I on the other hand will spend $30 on a shirt at Target. It may not be as well made as the Duluth one, but it serves the same purpose as the Duluth shirt, for me, and I have money left over for other stuff. Maybe a better example...we both went to Iron Pony in Columbus to buy new helmets together. We split up in the helmet section of the store. When we met back up he had picked out a $650 Shoei... me a $250 HJC. To match his dollars spent, I was also able to pick up a new Tourmaster jacket and new a pair of Tourmaster gloves and STILL had money left over. Just the way we are. Both grew up in the same household, both knowing what being poor is like. We learned different lessons from it apparently.

In relation to this thread....my brother would undoubtedly opt for the BMW because, being more expensive, it's got to be "better". Cadillac man! and he would feel proud having people see him on the better, more expensive motorcycle..... but I undoubtedly would opt for the NT because it will go anyplace the Beemer will, maybe it's not as high tech and maybe not as comfortable, but I will get there all the same and I will have money left over for other things... a LOT of money. For me, that's Good Enough. ...and I don't care what people think when they see what motorcycle I am riding lol.
 
the Ferret said:
Priorities

My younger brother is a "Cadillac" man, and by that I don't mean he drives a Cadillac (when we were young a Cadillac was something to strive for and to own to show that you had "made it" .... Me? I'm a Good Enough man". (He actually drives a C8 Corvette while I drive a 4 cyl Toyota Camry). But my brother buys nothing but top shelf stuff. He'll spend $100 on a shirt at Duluth and since it's expensive, he calls it "Cadillac". I on the other hand will spend $30 on a shirt at Target. It may not be as well made as the Duluth one, but it serves the same purpose as the Duluth shirt, for me, and I have money left over for other stuff. Maybe a better example...we both went to Iron Pony in Columbus to buy new helmets together. We split up in the helmet section of the store. When we met back up he had picked out a $650 Shoei... me a $250 HJC. To match his dollars spent, I was also able to pick up a new Tourmaster jacket and new a pair of Tourmaster gloves and STILL had money left over. Just the way we are. Both grew up in the same household, both knowing what being poor is like. We learned different lessons from it apparently.

In relation to this thread....my brother would undoubtedly opt for the BMW because, being more expensive, it's got to be "better". Cadillac man! and he would feel proud having people see him on the better, more expensive motorcycle..... but I undoubtedly would opt for the NT because it will go anyplace the Beemer will, maybe it's not as high tech and maybe not as comfortable, but I will get there all the same and I will have money left over for other things... a LOT of money. For me, that's Good Enough. ...and I don't care what people think when they see what motorcycle I am riding lol.
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Your point is taken. However, it doesn't matter if you can buy many things for the same money your brother can buy just one thing, because if he can spend 10x more money on stuff and it does not hurt his budget as it hurts yours, that all what's matters.

Some people spend money on the most expensive things because they can, and this is the world they live in. (Not merely related to bikes) and I respect this.

However, some will get out of their way just to brag and to show-off just to prove others (and themselves) that they made it... these are pretty pitiful people.
I have riding friends who ride late models BMW's Ducs, KTMs Wings etc. and they wait on me to ride a new GS instead of my 2003 ST1300 which I love to ride. They don't get that it is not about showing a new shiny bike, but what you're happy with.
 
There are some that do want the newest thing all the time. Those are probably not what we here would call riders. I would say most here are those that really want to tour and ride as much as their personal situation allows.

For me, I've been looking for the best bike, for me, for the past 25 years since I started riding...

I tried a couple wings - they always felt too heavy and not sport enough... a couple ST1300s, they actually felt heavier than the wings but were nice and sporty... yes the weight disappears once you start moving but it comes back when you go into a turn aggressively.

I tried a vstrom 650 - very affordable but for touring it wasn't good for me.. lacked wind protection and the alternator was weak if you needed extra lights or heated gear... but, good feature for a good price.

I tried a Super Tenere.. not bad at all.. a little tall but not terrible and it was almost perfect... the only thing I really didn't care for was the gearing in twisties had me searching for the right gear a lot. That could just be me but this bike was almost perfect. I could easily go back to one of these some day but Yamaha stopped making them LOL

Then came the Tracer... wow, what an engine.. That triple is like a drug and the handling was awesome, you didn't feel like you ever had to hit the brakes going into a curve, it had over 10k redline so shifting in the twisties was minimal as the power band was really nice. However, when it came to touring, I never solved the wind management.

I started wondering if there was a perfect bike for me. I looked at the wings, test rode a manual and dct and they just felt too big and not sporty-ish enough, again... for me.. for some it's perfect and that's great.. just wasn't gonna work for me.

I've always been Anti-BMW... mostly due to all the talk about high maintenance costs but I never had any experience with them... I decided to take a look.

The k1600s I looked at but dang, they felt very heavy as well... I wanted something I can move around the garage as well as on the road and it's nice some of them have reverse but they still just felt to heavy to me. I never took one of those for a ride.

Then, I looked at the RT and sitting on it and just getting it off the side stand the thing felt A LOT lighter than The K bikes, the Wings and STs... hmmmm.. I've heard about folks not liking the vibes from the engine... I took one for a ride and I know what they feel but I liked it, I could feel the engine and hear it... AND... I liked it...

I went home and investigated maintenance as I would not get something I had to bring to the dealer to get anything done. I found it was easier than just about all the bikes I've had in the past, only the Valkyrie was easier and not by much. A little expense for some special valve check tools and a hex911 tool and unless there's some recall or warranty repair - only had one of those in the past on a wing - it will never see a dealershipxs service department.

I rode the 1250RT for 3 years and saw they were coming out with a 1300 engine... I was at a dealership just looking around and killing time... and sat on a low-suspension R1250 GSA... wow, it felt like sitting on the RT.. It would be the last year of the 1250 engine and I always liked the GSA but they were always WAY too tall... I already know all the maint needed for that engine and have all the tools.... I figured with 2 bikes that have the same engine/drive train I can alternate my riding and make those 2 go a long way in my riding career...

I finally feel like I found the perfect bike(s) for me.

The RT is more perfect so if I had to give one up, it would be the GSA but I'm not planning on that happening.

Why are they perfect?
- Incredible and intuitive tech - The RT has Adaptive Cruise Control that works really well on those long stretches but I don't really use CC much on any of the bikes I've had. You would think all the settings and screens would make it complicated but it's very intuitive and you get used to it faster than you'd think.
- The digital display - very nice on my old eyes and configurable to whatever you want to see.
- Range.. that's been an issue an all bikes as the ST1300 spoils you... well, the RT is very close at a 250 range at sea level and the the range display is conservative giving you warnings way before you need them and even when it's zero... you have enough left to go further... The GSA range is just insane lol
- Vibes - Sounds like a negative but I like that I feel like I'm riding a motorcycle.. that is a tough thing for anyone that's ridden V4s or Flat 6 motorcycles as those are likey the smoothest engines ever.. but I like it.

There's lots of other positives, FOR ME, and I finally feel like I have the PERFECT bike for me in the RT.. the GSA is simply an off-road capable version of that bike.. I'll never go off road with it as I don't have enough experince with that and it would just get me hurt- plus, I don't care to go off road.. .I basically have 2 road-touring bikes that are PERFECT for me.

I just turned 61.. my plan is to ride into my 80s... I would imagine there may be a time in 10 years when the current bikes are getting heavy for me and I want a lighter one and I ride shorter distances.. but I plan on these 2 bikes to get me to that decision point.

As for the costs... well, very little in life ever gets cheaper... well, except for riders.....
 
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the Ferret said:
Priorities

My younger brother is a "Cadillac" man, and by that I don't mean he drives a Cadillac (when we were young a Cadillac was something to strive for and to own to show that you had "made it" .... Me? I'm a Good Enough man". (He actually drives a C8 Corvette while I drive a 4 cyl Toyota Camry). But my brother buys nothing but top shelf stuff. He'll spend $100 on a shirt at Duluth and since it's expensive, he calls it "Cadillac". I on the other hand will spend $30 on a shirt at Target. It may not be as well made as the Duluth one, but it serves the same purpose as the Duluth shirt, for me, and I have money left over for other stuff. Maybe a better example...we both went to Iron Pony in Columbus to buy new helmets together. We split up in the helmet section of the store. When we met back up he had picked out a $650 Shoei... me a $250 HJC. To match his dollars spent, I was also able to pick up a new Tourmaster jacket and new a pair of Tourmaster gloves and STILL had money left over. Just the way we are. Both grew up in the same household, both knowing what being poor is like. We learned different lessons from it apparently.

In relation to this thread....my brother would undoubtedly opt for the BMW because, being more expensive, it's got to be "better". Cadillac man! and he would feel proud having people see him on the better, more expensive motorcycle..... but I undoubtedly would opt for the NT because it will go anyplace the Beemer will, maybe it's not as high tech and maybe not as comfortable, but I will get there all the same and I will have money left over for other things... a LOT of money. For me, that's Good Enough. ...and I don't care what people think when they see what motorcycle I am riding lol.
Click to expand...
I enjoy riding my Beemer for some of the reasons you mentioned and I bought it for $3500 six years ago. It’s been cheaper to buy and ride these last 72,000 miles than my ST1300 & Goldwings were and cheaper than the NC700X after buying windshields, seats, and luggage for the NC which still lacks cruise control, premium suspension, and long distance range and comfort.
 
Mellow said:
There are some that do want the newest thing all the time. Those are probably not what we here would call riders. I would say most here are those that really want to tour and ride as much as their personal situation allows.

For me, I've been looking for the best bike, for me, for the past 25 years since I started riding...

I tried a couple wings - they always felt too heavy and not sport enough... a couple ST1300s, they actually felt heavier than the wings but were nice and sporty... yes the weight disappears once you start moving but it comes back when you go into a turn aggressively.

I tried a vstrom 650 - very affordable but for touring it wasn't good for me.. lacked wind protection and the alternator was weak if you needed extra lights or heated gear... but, good feature for a good price.

I tried a Super Tenere.. not bad at all.. a little tall but not terrible and it was almost perfect... the only thing I really didn't care for was the gearing in twisties had me searching for the right gear a lot. That could just be me but this bike was almost perfect. I could easily go back to one of these some day but Yamaha stopped making them LOL

Then came the Tracer... wow, what an engine.. That triple is like a drug and the handling was awesome, you didn't feel like you ever had to hit the brakes going into a curve, it had over 10k redline so shifting in the twisties was minimal as the power band was really nice. However, when it came to touring, I never solved the wind management.

I started wondering if there was a perfect bike for me. I looked at the wings, test rode a manual and dct and they just felt too big and not sporty-ish enough, again... for me.. for some it's perfect and that's great.. just wasn't gonna work for me.

I've always been Anti-BMW... mostly due to all the talk about high maintenance costs but I never had any experience with them... I decided to take a look.

The k1600s I looked at but dang, they felt very heavy as well... I wanted something I can move around the garage as well as on the road and it's nice some of them have reverse but they still just felt to heavy to me. I never took one of those for a ride.

Then, I looked at the RT and sitting on it and just getting it off the side stand the thing felt A LOT lighter than The K bikes, the Wings and STs... hmmmm.. I've heard about folks not liking the vibes from the engine... I took one for a ride and I know what they feel but I liked it, I could feel the engine and hear it... AND... I liked it...

I went home and investigated maintenance as I would not get something I had to bring to the dealer to get anything done. I found it was easier than just about all the bikes I've had in the past, only the Valkyrie was easier and not by much. A little expense for some special valve check tools and a hex911 tool and unless there's some recall or warranty repair - only had one of those in the past on a wing - it will never see a dealershipxs service department.

I rode the 1250RT for 3 years and saw they were coming out with a 1300 engine... I was at a dealership just looking around and killing time... and sat on a low-suspension R1250 GSA... wow, it felt like sitting on the RT.. It would be the last year of the 1250 engine and I always liked the GSA but they were always WAY too tall... I already know all the maint needed for that engine and have all the tools.... I figured with 2 bikes that have the same engine/drive train I can alternate my riding and make those 2 go a long way in my riding career...

I finally feel like I found the perfect bike(s) for me.

The RT is more perfect so if I had to give one up, it would be the GSA but I'm not planning on that happening.

Why are they perfect?
- Incredible and intuitive tech - The RT has Adaptive Cruise Control that works really well on those long stretches but I don't really use CC much on any of the bikes I've had. You would think all the settings and screens would make it complicated but it's very intuitive and you get used to it faster than you'd think.
- The digital display - very nice on my old eyes and configurable to whatever you want to see.
- Range.. that's been an issue an all bikes as the ST1300 spoils you... well, the RT is very close at a 250 range at sea level and the the range display is conservative giving you warnings way before you need them and even when it's zero... you have enough left to go further... The GSA range is just insane lol
- Vibes - Sounds like a negative but I like that I feel like I'm riding a motorcycle.. that is a tough thing for anyone that's ridden V4s or Flat 6 motorcycles as those are likey the smoothest engines ever.. but I like it.

There's lots of other positives, FOR ME, and I finally feel like I have the PERFECT bike for me in the RT.. the GSA is simply an off-road capable version of that bike.. I'll never go off road with it as I don't have enough experince with that and it would just get me hurt- plus, I don't care to go off road.. .I basically have 2 road-touring bikes that are PERFECT for me.

I just turned 61.. my plan is to ride into my 80s... I would imagine there may be a time in 10 years when the current bikes are getting heavy for me and I want a lighter one and I ride shorter distances.. but I plan on these 2 bikes to get me to that decision point.

As for the costs... well, very little in life ever gets cheaper... well, except for riders.....
Click to expand...
I would echo these words and I would add that the RT vs. the ST is not that big a difference, as I have stated before. The ST is still a very capable tourer. I find every aspect of the RT is refined though. I wouldn't give up the RT, but if I was to, hypothetically, the ST is still possible, although the NT1100 would seem better for me. So, IMHO it comes down to money. Do I think it was worth the price to upgrade... maybe. I am on the fence on that one, only because the ST is still relevant in the class. Worth/value is different to everyone.
The RT is lighter, but more importantly, the center of gravity is much lower, making it much more agile at lower speeds. People are always going on about how the weight disappears once you get going and yes it does, but it seems as I get older, I dont get going as much, meaning I seem to notice the times more that I am going slow and the lighter bike just seems more more noticeable more often, if that makes any sense. Also, because the cylinders are much lower, you don't have the massive heat sink in front of the riders crotch. While I was never too bothered with heat on the ST, the RT is a HUGE improvement. I have been riding early this year and for the first time, I have bought heated gear to combat the cool spring temps. The ST always kept me warm in the cool weather, with the obvious effect of keeping you warm in the warm weather. While the ST handles decent, the RT is in a different class. This thing just loves to corner. The tech is very advanced and for now, this is good. If it remains reliable, great. The one area that the ST excels at is the engine. It is hands down much smoother than the RT, but I have learned to live with the vibration of the RT's twin and it doesn't faze me now . The RT continues to be very relevant in its class and continues to grow and refine. That has to say something, regardless of negative opinions of cost/worth/value. I cant believe everyone buys it just so they can work the word "BMW" into most sentences. I know I didn't. I bought it to try something new and hopefully improved and to me, it is... I am definitely impressed.
The new NT1100 intrigues me as it seems to address the ST shortcomings, such as weight and COG, mostly. I think that will be a step forward for Honda. I think it will tour almost like a Goldwing (while not cutting into GW sales) and offer commuting potential in a smaller, lighter package. I think it will be a good all-arounder, but that is just my opinion.
So, do I like the RT... absolutely. Is it worth it... only you can decide that. To me it was worth it, but like I said, everyone's idea of worth is different, which is what makes everyone's opinion relevant. If you enjoy your time in the seat and you are happy with your bike, then it is the right bike for you.
 
dduelin said:
I enjoy riding my Beemer for some of the reasons you mentioned and I bought it for $3500 six years ago.
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Yea, if the new Beemer were $3500 we wouldn't be having this discussion lol, but at close to 10 times that out the door, it becomes a relevant conversation topic. In MY world, once a motorcycle gets above say, $20 grand, it's in the "I would never pay that much money for a motorcycle" category, no matter how good it is. The most expensive motorcycle I have ever bought was my 2018 FJR for $14,500. Then again in retrospect a $31,000 BMW is way cheaper than a 2025 Harley Davidson CVO Road Glide RR.

Everything has a certain value to me, and I have trouble paying more than I think something is worth. I quit drinking soft drinks in restaurants once they got to $3 for a glass, or more expensive than a whole 2-liter bottle of the stuff, besides, water is better for me I've been told by my wife and family doctor. ;)
 
If the people who had money didn't spend it where would we be? You wouldn't have a job if someone didn't strive to make better things and improve life styles. The factory workers, designers and engineers at BMW all have families the take care of too. We all don't have Shoei helmets but we don't have $40 Vevor helmet either.
 
I've never bought a bike because of what someone else thought about it aside from reviewers in various bike publications. A review that pointed out mechanical design flaws would be worth considering. Otherwise I like a bike enough for whatever reasons I buy it. It's pretty simple. Nobody else's opinion really matters. Except to "them".

Too bad the opposite is seldom true – nobody cares about what anyone else rides. It often comes down to some "my bike is better than your bike" – kind of measuring contest. That's just sad. Even if it were/is true it's petty and sad. Pathetic even.

"My Timex is as good as your Rolex" isn't really a statement of someone who doesn't care what anybody else thinks. It's a flex. It's a passive-aggressive way of saying "You're a status seeker because you own a Rolex and I'm a better person because I'd never own a Rolex".

My ST is in my Good Enough Category. I can afford a Wing or even a 1300RT but that's not in my Desired Category. My ST does all the things the RT does and was < a third of the cost. Except it doesn't really but is still Good Enough for me. Just because someone may like the RT (or any BMW) enough to pay the price of admission doesn't mean they made a bad choice. If they don't care what anyone else thinks why should I.

If someone buys any item because of its supposed status and wants to reel me into a measuring contest or attribute some elevated status to them because of the car/truck/watch/bike they drive/wear/ride they're wasting their time. But if someone bought something that truly gives them pleasure to drive/wear/own exclusive of seeking status then I'm not about to shame them for their choice.

But that's really not how the world works. We're humans and basically flawed to varying degrees. "My Good Enough should be your Good Enough or your just showing off" is all too common.

I have an MTB that ways maybe 40lbs without a few farkles I've added. It wasn't particularly expensive new and I got it on closeout. It's a thing of beauty to my eye and more sturdily built than a traditional "10-speed". It wasn't a good fit but I still have it and still like it a lot.

Back when I rode it any distance (but not on trails or mountains) I meet a trio of some serious riders of road bikes. Kitted out I was looking at maybe $9000 a copy. These guys didn't act like it. They said some nice things about my bike. They answered a lot of questions about theirs. I learned a lot. It was a great rest stop.

The RT would be a bad choice for me for two reasons— 1) it doesn't appeal to me on any level except that it is a bike and b) there's no way I'd ever appreciate all that it is. That's probably beyond my ken. But if someone rolls up on one and loves it and wants to talk about it I'm all too happy to listen.

He or she's a rider and I'm a rider. The degree or category of each may differ but that we can both appreciate that commonality makes for a comfortable and pleasant discourse. The joy of riding.

Sharing that joy is the only exception to me caring about what others think.

TL;DR? There are no bad bikes only bad riders. Oversimplified a scosh. Maybe.
 
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