Rear brake binding

[ST1]

Removed left caliper.

Blow out pistons with air line.

Separate the caliper body.

Will continue tomorrow and measure the pistons.

 

[ST1]

I wished that you had said that was in your plan, I could have armed you with the information.

Just for your info (in case they say that it doesn't matter), The left bearing needs to be driven in first - that is the single race bearing on the brake disc side.

The right bearing (double race) is driven in until it meets the spacer - no more - because that will push out the other bearing - putting an unnecessary load on the centre races.
The flange plate (with the male spline) has to be removed to get to the right hand bearing - so while they are at it- they might as well replace the two flange bearings.

THe issue is that the hub has a shoulder on each side - and it looks as though the bearing is supposed to seat on that shoulder. The first bearing to be driven in will seat on that shoulder.
The distance collar - the long tube through which the axle slides - goes in next and sits on the inner race of the first bearing. This tube is slightly longer than the distance between those two shoulders. So if the person fitting the bearing is hammering it in until he hears the charactersitic ring - he will be driving out the first bearing by its center race - which will ruin the bearing.

So for the rear wheel the left bearing goes in first (brake disc side, single race). Then the distance collar / tube, then the right bearing - double race goes in last and it is driven until it meets the distance collar. Before I knew this, I had taken my 1100 wheel in for a tyre. He couldn't balance it 'cos the bearings were binding - so I asked him to fit new bearings and I watched him do it. He just hammered them in - and I didn't know at the time that this was wrong. But those bearing needed changing again at the next tyre change - 5000 miles. So I looked it all up.

The Honda common service manual (applicable to all Honda bikes) says: "Right and left bearings have a specific installation order. Refer to the model sepcific manual for which bearing to install first.". For the ST1300, the order for the front wheel and rear wheel is different. Rear wheel is left first. Front wheel is right first.

I've pm'd an extract of the manual. (It has an error, which I have corrected. The original says to drive in left first, then drive in the left !


====

Call Fowlers and tell them. Yes you can use the old ones, but that isn't the point. Someone has opened the pack at some point, removed the backing plates and landed you with the incomplete set.

Thanks for this, I spoke to them about the fitting procedure and they agreed to fit the bearings this way.
As for the difference in the front pistons, all the seals have arrived from David Silver. I will measure and work my way through this tomorrow. I will compare to your explanation above, I found this most confusing when ordering the seals.
And lastly the opened package for the front pads have been returned to Fowlers.

 

[ST1]

Picked up the back wheel with refined rear bearings.

These are the old bearings, the double one is the brake disc side.

 

[SMSW]

I (It has an error, which I have corrected. The original says to drive in left first, then drive in the left !

Of course, it should say, "drive in the left first, then the other left". (Same as referring to one's feet when learning to dance....)

 

[SMSW]

Picked up the back wheel with refined rear bearings.

These are the old bearings, the double one is the brake disc side.

Did not John say the single race bearing goes on the disk side?

See post #27:

Article [13] - ST1300 - Maintenance - Fitting Wheel Bearings - What the manuals don't tell. | ST1300 Articles

Very confusing as to why the spacer isn't a few mm shorter, to prevent the problems you made us aware of..... I still have the same question, why is the spacer not shorter or equal as the hub shoulders distance? Is the spacer acting as a seal, preventing dust and water to get from the hub to...

www.st-owners.com

 

[jfheath]

I sent @ST1 an image of the page in the manual with my correction to the text. It's a full page so didn't want to post it here - (copyright). Although I believe a limited number of pages of copyrighted documents are allowed for educational purposes.

Yes the dual race is underneath the drive spline flange - I guess to support the stresses and strains of the final drive. The single race goes on the disk side with a dust seal on top. The bearing that you can see in this shot Is the outer of two relatively small flange bearings.

The bearing on the disc side should have the oil / dust seal on top of it. If the double bearing has been put in there, there will probably be no room for the dust seal.

@ST1. Just to be sure - Please post a photo of the wheel focusing on the disc side and bearing without the final spacer in place. The spacer just lifts out of the seal - or it falls off and rolls under the bike, if you are not careful.

 

[ST1]

This is the disc side when i removed the disc to clean under on the 28/08/25.

These photos have been just taken.


So if if Iam am understanding this correctly the photo below shows the correct sequence of bearings from right to left. (Brake Disc/rotor side).
I have a new seal ready to fit also.

 

[jfheath]

This does not look correct to me. But I am only looking at photos. And I cannot tell which is the double width bearing -
but I can see other things that make me suspect that they have put the double bearing on the brake disk side.
And therefore I assume that they have put the single race bearing that carries a much heavier load, behine the drive splines.

Read on and follow through with my logic. See if it makes sense.




1. This photo (above) shows that the spacer and the seal are protruding too far out.




2 This photo above shows the bearing with the red seal inserted into the side of the wheel with the Brake disk (left side).





The above photo of parts have codes which are visible

Black = 6204RS
Red = 6204 LUV14 (or V1A)



And the above photo is what I get when I search for part number 91053-MN5-003 - the code for the doube race bearing - image from the partzilla website.
This has the same marking 6204LUV14 as your red bearing.

Note that it is much wider than the 6204RS - that is because it has 2 races of ball bearings in one shell. It is also a deep groove intended for heavy load bearing.

That double race bearing is supposed to fit in the wheel hub on the drive spline side (after the spline flange has been removed).

Armed with that information and the info that I provided earlier - and on the sheet taken from the manual -
They seem to have put the bearings into the wrong sides of the wheel.

You could confirm that by prying out the circlip holding the flange plate. Get a small screwdriver behind one edge and ease it away (it has an angle leading edge to make that easy). When eased away enough, slip another tiny driver blade between the ring and the cast alloy of the wheel and move it round to ease the reast of the ring away. Angle the blade so that it lifts the ring up slightly so that it can slip back into the groove.

The double bearing should become visible once you have lifted the flange off. There is no dust seal, and the face of the double bearing should be about flush with the casting of the wheel.
But I think that thye have put the single beraing in there and it will be set well back.

Maybe they have just copied what was already in the wheel - which might explain why your brake was dragging. The wheel would have been forced over to one side.

If what you find matches with what I have said then that is a serious error and the service department will need to drive out the bearings and replace them. That double race bearing is quite expensive. They must not re-use bearings once they have been driven out. Driving them out damgages them. I can get you the quote from the Honda Workshop manual if you want.

And since they seem to have got it wrong once I'd want to be there to watch them do it correctly - with brand new bearings that you see them open.

I'll try to colour in a digram to help clarify what it should look like,

Maybe someone else can look at these photos and agree / disagree with me. @Igofar @aniwack @SMSW ????

If it your wheel bearings are wrong, then they have done something which would at some point in the future could result in a catastrophic collapse of the rear wheel bearing.


Edit. I've taken the workshop manual diagram - added in the other side of the axle and turned it round so that left and the brake disk is on the left hand side of the picture.
And coloured in the key components.

 

[ST1]

This does not look correct to me. But I am only looking at photos.

Read on and follow through with my logic. See if it makes sense.




1. This photo shows that the spacer and the seal are protruding too far out.




2 This photo above shows the bearing with the red seal inserted into the side of the wheel with the Brake disk (left side).





The above photo of parts have codes

Black = 6204RS
Red = 6204 LUV14 (or V1A)



And the above photo is what I get when I search for part number 91053-MN5-003 - partzilla website.
This has the same marking 6204LUV14 as your red bearing.


Note that it is much wider than the 6204RS - that is because it has 2 races of ball bearings in one shell. It is also a deep groove intended for heavy load bearing.

That double race bearing is supposed to fit in the wheel hub on the drive spline side (after the splin flange has been removed).

Armed with that information and the info that I provided earlier - and on the sheet taken from the manual -
They seem to have put the bearings into the wrong sides of the wheel.

You could confirm that by prying out the circlip holding the flange plate. Get a small screwdriver behind one edge and ease it away (it has an angle leading edge to make that easy). When eased away enough, slip another tiny driver blade between the ring and the cast alloy of the wheel and move it round to ease the reast of the ring away. Angle the blade so that it lifts the ring up slightly so that it can slip back into the groove.

The double bearing should become visible once you have lifted the flange off. There is no dust seal, and the face of the bearing should be about flush with the casting of the wheel.

Maybe they have just copied what was already in the wheel - which might explain why your brake was dragging. The wheel would have been forced over to one side.

If what you find matches with what I have said then the service department will need to drive out the bearings and replace them. That double race bearing is quite expensive.
You must not re-use bearings once they have been driven out. Driving them out damgages them. I can get you the quote from the Honda Workshop manual if you want.

And since they seem to have got it wrong once I'd want to be there to watch them do it correctly - with brand new bearings.

I'll try to colour in a digram to help clarify what it should look like,

Maybe someone esle can look at these photos and agree / disagree with me.

If it is wrong, then they have done something which would at some point in the future result in a catastrophic collapse of the rear wheel bearing.

I have removed the drive spline.

Yes I agree with. On the face of it I need th two wheel bearings.
Fowlers have them listed as no:19 disc side at £26.29 and the flange side double bearing no:20 at £26.29. Which seems odd as the bearing is twice the width.

 

[jfheath]

That is odd. It must be Honda that have hiked up the price - I've just checked on David Silver same price more or less. The double race used to be about 3 times the price of the single race. But the double hasn't increased much in price since I last did mine.

So these incorrectly installed bearings have been installed by the dealer in the last few days ? If so, the cost should be their problem.

 

[ST1]

That is odd. It must be Honda that have hiked up the price - I've just checked on David Silver same price more or less. The double race used to be about 3 times the price of the single race. But the double hasn't increased much in price since I last did mine.

So these incorrectly installed bearings have been installed by the dealer in the last few days ? If so, the cost should be their problem.

Yes it should be their problem, i was trying to speed things up by outsourcing a subassembly and just taking the wheel on and off.
As a way foreword I have ordered two new wheel bearings from Fowlers, which I will be fitting myself.
The flange bearings look OK.
In the meantime I will carry on rebuilding the two from calipers and re bleeding.
Below is how the bearing the orientation in the wheel before new ones fitted so I cannot understand how this was mixed up, I will be contacting the dealer Tuesday when they open.

I am have been looking on amazon at bearing drivers in readiness for Bearing install and reading guides.

 

[jfheath]

I used to manage without the proper drivers. I used the outer shell of a couple of old bearings and ground a gap in the side:
a) to remove the balls bearings and b) to provide some spring so that I could take them out after I had used them to drive them in.

Important to:

• Drive in the correct first bearing using the outer shell only - until you get the change in the ringing noise as it meets the shoulder in the hub.
• Put in the distance coller.
• Drive in the second bearing intil the inner race meets the distance collar. No more. If you drive it in any more, you will be driving the first bearing out which will put a side load on the bearing and damage them.

Also - have the wheel in a warm place and the bearings in the freezer (in a poly bag) before fitting the bearings. It makes life a tad easier.

I posted two videos of me doing my front wheel bearing a few years back - (edit 12 years ago - strewth) before all of my Honda removal tools had arrived.

Scroll down to the bottom of the first page - you can see the tools that I made from old bearings before buying the proper tools.

Article [13] - ST1300 - Front wheel bearing replacement [VIDEO] | ST1300 Articles

Front Wheel Bearing Removal Note the 'official' Honda tools - but other methods work just as well. Small taps work best for me. Larger ones knock the tool straight out of the bearing. -------------------------------------------- Front Wheel Bearing Installation Note that for the second...

www.st-owners.com

Bearing driver tools - the solid discs of metal - usually work for two sizes of bearings - one slightly larger than the other. Hence the lip or shoulder that you see on some of them.

 

[Igofar]

An easy trick to installing bearings into cases and wheels is to put some dry ice in a cooler, and place the bearings in there for a couple minutes, the bearings will almost drop into place by hand, the expand into place.
I believe there is a good video of this from REVZILLA, in the SERVICE MANUAL videos where he is rebuilding an old Yamaha trail bike.

 

[ST1]

I used to manage without the proper drivers. I used the outer shell of a couple of old bearings and ground a gap in the side:
a) to remove the balls bearings and b) to provide some spring so that I could take them out after I had used them to drive them in.

Important to:

• Drive in the correct first bearing using the outer shell only - until you get the change in the ringing noise as it meets the shoulder in the hub.
• Put in the distance coller.
• Drive in the second bearing intil the inner race meets the distance collar. No more. If you drive it in any more, you will be driving the first bearing out which will put a side load on the bearing and damage them.

Also - have the wheel in a warm place and the bearings in the freezer (in a poly bag) before fitting the bearings. It makes life a tad easier.

I posted two videos of me doing my front wheel bearing a few years back - (edit 12 years ago - strewth) before all of my Honda removal tools had arrived.

Scroll down to the bottom of the first page - you can see the tools that I made from old bearings before buying the proper tools.

Article [13] - ST1300 - Front wheel bearing replacement [VIDEO] | ST1300 Articles

Front Wheel Bearing Removal Note the 'official' Honda tools - but other methods work just as well. Small taps work best for me. Larger ones knock the tool straight out of the bearing. -------------------------------------------- Front Wheel Bearing Installation Note that for the second...

www.st-owners.com

Bearing driver tools - the solid discs of metal - usually work for two sizes of bearings - one slightly larger than the other. Hence the lip or shoulder that you see on some of them.

The bearings have arrived today.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

An easy trick to installing bearings into cases and wheels is to put some dry ice in a cooler, and place the bearings in there for a couple minutes, the bearings will almost drop into place by hand, the expand into place.

Use liquid Nitrogen and you'll think that you bought the wrong diameter bearings.

 

[jfheath]

Read carefully how to do this.

Put in the first bearing - (Left ?) - Go back and check.
Put your hammer further away from you than the spacer.
Don't forget to put in the spacer.
Take care with the second bearing not to get it cock-eyed


BEFORE you start tapping in the second bearing ask yourself the question. Have I put in the spacer ?.


One trick that you can use to make sure that it goes in square - insert the axle through the first bearing from the opposite side and drop the spacer and the first bearing down the axle. Tap evenly around the outer shell one tap one side one tap the opposite side. Work round. The two bearings will keep the axle centred and the axle will help prevent the bearing from going in one side further than the other. But you have to remove the axle to determine how close to the spacer you are - so don't drive the second bearing in all the way without checking progress towards the spacer. As soon as it touches all the way round, any more taps are transferred straight through to the first bearing, knocking it out by its inner race.

===============

How did your conversation go with the dealer - or have you decided to let it go ?
nb - I just checked your earlier photos before you had the dealer fit them. The single race bearing was on the correct disc side when he got the wheel.

He needs to know - because whoever he set on doing the task didn't have a clue and never bothered to ask or find out.

 

[ST1]

Read carefully how to do this.

Put in the first bearing - (Left ?) - Go back and check.
Put your hammer further away from you than the spacer.
Don't forget to put in the spacer.
Take care with the second bearing not to get it cock-eyed


BEFORE you start tapping in the second bearing ask yourself the question. Have I put in the spacer ?.


One trick that you can use to make sure that it goes in square - insert the axle through the first bearing from the opposite side and drop the spacer and the first bearing down the axle. Tap evenly around the outer shell one tap one side one tap the opposite side. Work round. The two bearings will keep the axle centred and the axle will help prevent the bearing from going in one side further than the other. But you have to remove the axle to determine how close to the spacer you are - so don't drive the second bearing in all the way without checking progress towards the spacer. As soon as it touches all the way round, any more taps are transferred straight through to the first bearing, knocking it out by its inner race.

===============

How did your conversation go with the dealer - or have you decided to let it go ?
nb - I just checked your earlier photos before you had the dealer fit them. The single race bearing was on the correct disc side when he got the wheel.

He needs to know - because whoever he set on doing the task didn't have a clue and never bothered to ask or find out.

Update the bearing driver ariver arrived today.

The owner of the shop us on holiday.

 

[jfheath]

Update the bearing driver ariver arrived today.

The owner of the shop us on holiday.

Brilliant. What make is that / where from ? I never managed to find one like that in the uk, and waited ages for the Honda ones to arrive. I had another look earlier this year for a pressie for my brother without success.

 

[ST1100Y]

Brilliant. What make is that / where from ? I never managed to find one like that in the uk, and waited ages for the Honda ones to arrive.

OT (kinda), can recommend this set:

HASKYY Pressure Piece Drive Set 52 Pieces 18-65 mm - Bearing Bowls, Bushings & Seal Ring Press Tool with Mounting Washers for Bearings, Sealing Rings & Rubber Bearings : Amazon.de: Automotive

HASKYY Pressure Piece Drive Set 52 Pieces 18-65 mm - Bearing Bowls, Bushings & Seal Ring Press Tool with Mounting Washers for Bearings, Sealing Rings & Rubber Bearings : Amazon.de: Automotive

www.amazon.de

Made of steel, sorted in 1mm steps, comes with the appropriate handle/striking piece... all for a reasonable price...

 

[ST1]

OT (kinda), can recommend this set:

HASKYY Pressure Piece Drive Set 52 Pieces 18-65 mm - Bearing Bowls, Bushings & Seal Ring Press Tool with Mounting Washers for Bearings, Sealing Rings & Rubber Bearings : Amazon.de: Automotive

HASKYY Pressure Piece Drive Set 52 Pieces 18-65 mm - Bearing Bowls, Bushings & Seal Ring Press Tool with Mounting Washers for Bearings, Sealing Rings & Rubber Bearings : Amazon.de: Automotive

www.amazon.de

Made of steel, sorted in 1mm steps, comes with the appropriate handle/striking piece... all for a reasonable price...

Brilliant. What make is that / where from ? I never managed to find one like that in the uk, and waited ages for the Honda ones to arrive. I had another look earlier this year for a pressie for my brother without success.
I got them from ebay made by motion pro.
This make tends to be sold by motocross suppliers on eBay.

This is the link to the set on ebay

Pardon our interruption...

They also have a similar set made by Factory image racing.