Recommend Me a GPS

[Uncle Phil]

Now what was I doing before I saw that little snippet from @ST1100Y ? Ah yes - I was browsing to find the name of this Chinese satnav that @Uncle Phil is using. I'm curious.

That'll wait 'til tomorrow now !

You used to could buy them from Fodsport.
I found them directly from the manufacturer on Alibaba at $75 each -

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...m=a2700.details.you_may_like.2.74c268a5XEUmYl

A riding friend of mine has his BT'd to his Sena 30K and that works fine.
I have mine BT'd to a music receiver which is wired into a 4 into 1 amp I used to run my other devices through into my wired Sena 30Ks.
I preferred my wired setup as I rotate through my bikes and I don't want to do the 'BT' tap dance every time I switch bikes.
I just like to turn the key on the motorcycle and everything electronical comes up on it's own.
They are waterproof (I've proved that many times) and glove friendly and the same screen size as a ZUMO (5 inch) so not a bad deal.
Because they are so inexpensive, I have one on all of my motorcycles and in all of my 4 wheel vehicles.
And I have several 'spares' in a box in case I ever need one.
Buyer beware - they do not survive a 75 mph crash or exodus - BTDT.
It's just another option for someone who wants a GPS but doesn't want to drop a wad of money on one.
I have taken a lengthy trip with someone running a Garmin ZUMO and we were able to compare side by side during the trip.
At one spot, mine said to take a road and the Garmin said take a different road.
So we stopped (we had comms) and compared to the map (yes we had one of those! ).
The Chinese one had actually picked a better route in our opinion.
They don't do all the fancy stuff like weather and traffic, but they do the GPS stuff really well - which is all I want.
I have used them all over Europe, the UK and New Zealand without a hitch.
And since everything 'lives' on a microsd card, if the unit did fail, you'd just put the card in another unit and be good to go.

 

[Daboo]

I'm still missing what the difference is between 'breadcrumbs' and waypoints but it's probably beyond me anyway.

I made my route to Kamiah, ID a couple hours ago. I have I think 4 waypoints for a 400 mile trip. 6 if you count the start and end points. Bread crumbs would be hundreds.

Chris

 

[Uncle Phil]

I made my route to Kamiah, ID a couple hours ago. I have I think 4 waypoints for a 400 mile trip. 6 if you count the start and end points. Bread crumbs would be hundreds.

Chris

Well, then on a lot of rides I guess I use 'breadcrumbs' because I use a lot of 'whatever they are called' to follow the roads that I want to ride. I've not been known to ride in very many direct routes unless necessary.
For example on one of my BRG rides of about 220 miles I have 45 waypoints.
There is no way the GPS would 'take' me where I want to go with only 4 because I am on non-primary roads named after people.
I understand now how you could do 4 waypoints on the screen so that makes sense.
At the end of the day, we do what works for us - and that's why Baskin Robbins has 3(wonderful)1 flavors.

 

[ST1100Y]

It was me that identified and named the RUT issue - and having identified it I was able to make it happen on any route. That was important - because I need it to be predicatable. If I wasn't certain that it would do it every time, I couldn't know whether I had fixed it or not. One early success was coming across it when previous rides along the same route had behaved Ok. I sat at the side of the road, sidestand down, drinling a coffee from a flask, trying to recall the last two hours. What had I done that was different ? Later another success was when I discovered that on the same route, it didn't happen. But on that day I had I stopped at the side of the road to get screen shots and managed to delete the active route. So I rebuilt it using the saved waypoints. So I had things - something that seemed to trigger the behaviour. Something that prevented it from happening even when the same trigger was employed. And that after lots of testing, lead to the solution.

It happens with any imported route - ie one that has been put on the XT1 2 or 3 as a GPX file. The XT imports the data from the XT file, changes the names of points and treats it as though an idiot has prepared the route - with route point being badly located in nearby fields etc. If you go off route and the entire route is recalcluated - the zumo decides that it cannot trust the route - so it treats it as if it hasn't got any route points. Instead of heading for the next route point plotting a new route on different roads, it finds the place on the plotted route that is closest to your current position and heads for that. If you have just had to make a detour by heading off at right angles, that closest point is behind you. Ignore the u turn request it plots a new route to get you to go back - not to where you left the route, but to the palce where it last asked you to turn back. And it can never escape from that model. In my tests, it was still asking me to go back and follow its ariadne's thread of turn back points to where I left the original route and then pick up the way thata it intended to go in the first place. I was only a mile from meeting my original route. It was taking me 12 miles bakc and then anoher 18 miles to reach the point whic was only a mile ahead of me.

But there are a couple of solutions - both of which fool the XTs into thinking that the route has NOT been imported as a GPX file, and that it has been created on the zumo screen:

On the XT1, ​

Load the route, select Go ! and immediately go back to the main screen and select the Trip Planner APp, and choose 'Saved Trips'. That gives alist of trips (routes) available on the XT - Saved Trips (those created on the XT) and Imported Trips (those imported as GPX files). But also at the top is 'My Active Route'. Select that and click the 'Save' button. Give it a new name - I use the old name with an @ or asterisk * in front.​

​

Then go back to the trip planner and your new route will be listed under 'Saved Trips'. Load it in. Note that it has a new first route point - that is where you are now. Say Go ! Select the next destination. Ignore the one labelled coordinates - your position when you performed this little trick. Ignore closes entry point. Choose the thrid point - the start point of the original route. Run that.​

​

That route cannot be forced into displaying RUT behaviour. It behaves perfectly.​

One the XT2, T

There is an easier method to get the same result. Apps -> Routes -> Select a route. (Yes Garmin have at long last stopped using the word 'Trip' and started using the word 'Route'.​

No need to say Go ! Just tap the spanner / wrench and select Copy. Give it a name, and load that route. Same result - cannot be forced into a RUT situation.​

I don't know whether or not the XT3 has the same copy facility. I guess that it will.​

The other solution ..

.. is one that FrankB from ZumoUserForums has develped with a very modest amount of research and testing help from me and a few others. It is a windowss based program which takes a GPX file and places it (using the USB cable) in the .System/Trips folder as a trip file - which is what the garmin uses. So the Zumo never sees the GPS file. When you start up the zumo after using Trip Manager - the route is there in the menus. Providing you don't allw Drive or Tread to synch via your phone, your route remains unaltered. Route points are not moved, they are not renamed, and I have carried out a number of tests on routes on which I know how to provoke RUT behaviour - and they refuse to do it.​

​

Brilliant. It's what I use all of the time now for transferring routes, tracks, waypoints to the Zumos. All free. Frank is a professional programmer who does this sort of stuff for fun. He has made it and the source code freely available.​

If you want to know any more about any of this - probably best to start a new thread to avoid hijacking this thread any more. Mention my @name so that I am alerted and I'll point you to various sources of research, information, videos or help.

Now what was I doing before I saw that little snippet from @ST1100Y ? Ah yes - I was browsing to find the name of this Chinese satnav that @Uncle Phil is using. I'm curious.

That'll wait 'til tomorrow now !

uhm... errr... by the time one has taken all the steps described, me and my old crap are already 100 miles down the road... am I

 

[Uncle Phil]

@jfheath - Funny story - I was riding with someone who had the latest Garmin Zumo gadget.
He had built the route and he sent it to me as a GPX.
I translated it to .KML and loaded it in my Chinese GPS.
During the ride (we had comms) I had to help him as the Garmin kept sending him down unrelated dog paths.
I wonder if it was because he built the route originally in the GPX format.

 

[chmotard]

Over 20 years ago, I started using a modified car GPS on my motorcycle (a MIO c510 based on WinCE). I improvised various ways to make it waterproof.
Back then, map updates were prohibitively expensive, so I unlocked my GPS and installed the iGO8 software on an SD card.
This allowed me to prepare several routes in advance and save them, which was very practical for road trips.
Since then, I've never stopped using this software, keeping up with its updates (iGO Primo, iGO Nextgen).
For me, it's the best in terms of visual and voice guidance. (It's the factory-installed GPS system in my Mazda CX30).
Currently, I use a 6-inch smartphone (Redmi Note 11). Like many smartphones, it's splash-proof, which is sufficient in the rain, and the maximum brightness is more than adequate in sunlight. I installed an Android version of iGO on it; it's not legal, but I downloaded it from the "GPS Power" website, along with the map updates.
The mount is a RAM mount that adapts to all sizes; it holds very well, even off-road with my Africa Twin, and dampens vibrations well.

I use it for simple visual guidance or with audio using Sony WF-C510 Bluetooth headphones.

The advantage of a smartphone is the price and the ability to install any navigation software you want; I also use OsmAnd for off-road navigation and managing GPX files.

 

[Uncle Phil]

IGO Primo is what the Chinese GPSs have installed on them - works fine over here also!

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Well, then on a lot of rides I guess I use 'breadcrumbs' because I use a lot of 'whatever they are called'

You are using way-points, via points, or shaping points to create your routes, not breadcrumbs. You can not manually create breadcrumbs in a GPS receiver.
See the below definitions of each type of point that have been provided by John Heath.

In simplistic terms breadcrumbs are multiple points placed on a map by the device's software as a means of keeping a precise record in real time of where the GPS receiver has been as it moves along. When multiple breadcrumbs are strung together they form a track, which is a visual representation of where the GPS receiver has been. This is something that the GPS receiver does on its own as it moves along and is not influenced by input from the user, it is simply a record of where it has been. Depending on the capabilities of the receiver/software a track can be saved and then followed as is. i.e. A track can be followed in the opposite direction to take you back to where you came from. Also depending on the software a track can be converted in to a route and saved for future use.

When you create a route yourself in your mapping software you do so by placing a combination of the below listed points on the map to create a route. You use these points to create a route that goes where you want it to go. As you later travel along that route the GPS receiver is leaving breadcrumbs that it strings together to create a track as a digital record of where it has been. As an example, if you deviate from your route the saved version of that route will not change. The next time that you load that route it will be exactly the same as you programmed it. The track that was created when traveling that route will show all of the detours off of your planned route that you took because it shows everywhere that the GPS receiver went, not where it was supposed to go.


From John Heath:

Waypoint: A term for any saved location on your GPS. This could be your favorite fishing spot, a scenic overlook, or even your home. Waypoints are named and may have additional information attached. When first created, they are individual, saved locations which do not form any part of a route for navigation, but may be added to a route subsequently .

Via Point: A Route Point that is included in a planned route. When you create a route with multiple stops, the via points act as intermediary destinations that your GPS will guide you through on the way to your final destination. Via points are usually announced by your GPS as you approach them. Any Waypoint can be used in a route as a Via Point.

Shaping Point: A Route Point that is included in a planned route. It helps to define the route path but doesn't get announced by your GPS. Shaping points are useful for forcing your GPS to take a specific road or path during your journey. They are essentially silent Route Points that only influence the route calculation. Any Waypoint can be used in a route as a ShapingPoint.

 

[jfheath]

You have to be aware that a number of route planning utilities use the term 'waypoint' to refer to any point on a route - which causes confusion. MyRouteApp does this for example.
But Garmin and the people that designed the GPX file format use the term as described above.

 

[Uncle Phil]

I reckon then I use waypoints (which is what I've always called them) and they work for me on my GPS so I'm a happy camper!
Are Shaping points peculiar to Garmin devices or the same on other systems?
Just trying to get edjumacated at this point.

 

[chmotard]

IGO Primo is what the Chinese GPSs have installed on them - works fine over here also!

Yes, absolutely. The advantage of Igo Primo is that you can modify its content to personalize it. Nothing is coded like in most navigation software.

 

[Uncle Phil]

Yes, absolutely. The advantage of Igo Primo is that you can modify its content to personalize it. Nothing is coded like in most navigation software.

I have a Win CE version modified especially for motorcycles which I really like.

 

[jfheath]

Garmin introduced the shaping point and via point distinction when their 590 came out, although the term via point had been used for the point to point routing (ie route needs to go through here) for much earlier Garmin satnavs and was used in Mapsource - the route planning utility before Basecamp.

My Route App uses via points and shaping points in exactly the same way as Garmin. In the Zumos, via points announce as you approach and arrive - and you MUST pass through them.
Shaping points do not announce - at all, and the route will recalculate to visit both vias and shaping points if you deviate from the plotted line on the map - but if you happen to by pass shaping points and subsequently rejoin the plotted route - it will navigate ahead and not insist that you visit them once you are back on the plotted route.

 

[ST Gui]

Thanks Andrew and John. I can finally stop worrying about marshal points. <whew>

 

[ST1100Y]

Garmin introduced the shaping point and via point distinction when their 590 came out, although the term via point had been used for the point to point routing (ie route needs to go through here) for much earlier Garmin satnavs and was used in Mapsource - the route planning utility before Basecamp.

Yeah, and that is just the dreaded horse-leg with those Zumo's...

They can't/won't distinguish anymore between actual way-points (i.e. Start - Stop, icon displayed, with alarm), via-points (like way-points, icon displayed, crossed by the route) and shaping points (no alarm, no icon displayed, created by dragging and dropping the bearing line onto a different road as selected by the automatic in your plotting software on the PC...)
I usually create only Start and Stop as actual way-points, rest is forcing my desired route by drag & drop in MapSource... my Quest-I displays and navigates those *.gdb files correctly as designed, perfect...

Those Zumo's not so much though...
First of all they don't take a prepared *.gpx route 'as is' upon import anymore, but prioritize their internal routing preferences, hence always recalculate during the import, thus always alter the previously planned route... whilst running identical mapsets as MapSource or BaseCamp, eliminating the need for any recalculation...
During this suddenly all points created get displayed as stupidly large flag icons, covering the entire preview display on the Zumo, can't see crap...
And even more annoying, are suddenly all points handled as full way-points now, with alarm... so with my start - stop plus like 15~30 shaping points in between, those things just won't stop yapping, announcing every single shaping point as via-point with proximity and arrival alarms, plus will not accept 'circumventing' even a single one, thus insisting on u-turns if you (need to) divert... like you're pulling over for gas, upon leaving the station again, [if possible make a U-turn!]... pfffff...
And even when I use that dreaded BaseCamp and (manually!) set every single shaping point properties to [no alarm] in order to "bite-size" the routes for those Zumo's, above faults occur...

I've given up sharing routes with others, in partucular leading any group on a ride, sick of those constant complaints voiced towards me that I'm the one taking wrong turns/roads...

The only exception is the old Zumo 220 I got for ze GF, also suffering that flag-bug and also converting shaping points into a full WP, but at max only diverts in minor things like going left or right around a block when crossing through a village/city... so she doesn't get lost, she's always behind, pretty much right on the intended route, and not leaving a village east/westbound instead north...
That I've to double check the routes, once on OSM maps for my Quest, then on the NT maps for her 220, is SOP and the least of my issues, at least that 220 sticks to what I have designed...

We sometimes ride with a befriended couple who each have a 396, and even those two Zumos units can't agree on displaying nor performing identical routing... despite being fed with the same *.gpx file
And that at least one of those 396 always seizes for unknown reasons within the first 20~30 minutes into a ride over whatever reasons, is the icing on top...

And the Garmin support doesn't care, they explain it away by stating that there no such issues/reports in their US market and that one better design a route directly on the device itself anyway... great, thanx for nothing...

As the logical results more and more riders over here quit Garmin and shift to sollutions with rugged Andriod phones...
I (still) refuse such over the fact that those things always have my routes out there "in the cloud", and always rely on some WLAN/UMTS connection...

 

[Gus1300]

Just ordered two of the units at the link above in UPs #61 post; since I don't need two, if anyone wants a 'cheaper' experiment, I'm willing to forward one of the units for half of my total cost plus shipping to you. Just let me know and I'll get it in the mail when I receive them from China. (someone already has spoken for the second unit) I also will probably stop using my Zumo 660 at that point since it's basically only been an MP3 player for me its entire life since I never mounted it.

I don't consider myself that technically challenged but I still have yet to figure out how to get Google Maps to 'START' (no icon ever appears) on my Pixel 8a so have used mostly Waze for directional information and Google to try to find things better, look at satellite overlay, etc that Waze doesn't do. Hopefully this GPS will both help with directions when out of phone service as well as be able to carry some of my music and with what appeared to be the included mount and sun shield, I'll finally get my GPS out of my tank bag and up where I can see/use it better!



If someone wants to try the Zumo, make me an offer! The on/off switch stopped working several years ago but it still powers up and down fine when plugged in/unplugged and the battery holds power but probably not as long as when new (it's still the original). I have replaced the power socket from a cigarette lighter 'slip-in' style to a powerlet style so it wouldn't drop out on me with vibration but other than that it's factory standard, including the harness, RAM power adapter and box that it all came in. I have had it apart to identify the power switch, but just never got into sourcing a replacement and trying to solder it in where the rest of the SMDs live. Otherwise, it'll join the other misfit toys in my collection until my kids trash it all upon my death!

 

[Sadlsor]

Some older Zumo units still have batteries available, both OEM and 3rd party.
I bought a used 550(?) some time back, only because it was a price at a steal.
Ordered a new Garmin battery, and it works just fine -- for a 550.
As I have a couple newer units, I almost never use it.
signed, "not a Garmin hoarder."

 

[ST1100Y]

signed, "not a Garmin hoarder."

pfffff... back in the day I precautionary got myself two(!) additional Quest-I units as spares...
But the darn thing just won't die... ticking along like a Swiss watch since 2004...

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I started using a Zumo 550 back in 2008. I still use the 550 primarily but I also have a Zumo 595. After reading all of these complaints about misbehaving Garmin units I started thinking that I must be really stupid or really ignorant because I really haven't noticed all of these problems with my units. I am smart enough to realize that I don't have special units. If these problems exist they must be present with my units as well. So, while reading this thread, I was thinking that the next time that I use my GPS I should pay more attention to see if all of these things are happening to me. Then I realized that if I haven't noticed these issues in 18 years of use they can't be causing me much grief. I am not saying that they aren't present, just that they obviously haven't caused me much grief if I haven't been bothered by them to any degree thus far.

Of course all of you guys know that now I will notice that all of these issues are present, and I will be pissed off at all of you guys for bringing them to my attention.
Ignorance WAS bliss.

 

[Uncle Phil]

Just ordered two of the units at the link above in UPs #61 post; since I don't need two, if anyone wants a 'cheaper' experiment, I'm willing to forward one of the units for half of my total cost plus shipping to you. Just let me know and I'll get it in the mail when I receive them from China. (someone already has spoken for the second unit) I also will probably stop using my Zumo 660 at that point since it's basically only been an MP3 player for me its entire life since I never mounted it.

I don't consider myself that technically challenged but I still have yet to figure out how to get Google Maps to 'START' (no icon ever appears) on my Pixel 8a so have used mostly Waze for directional information and Google to try to find things better, look at satellite overlay, etc that Waze doesn't do. Hopefully this GPS will both help with directions when out of phone service as well as be able to carry some of my music and with what appeared to be the included mount and sun shield, I'll finally get my GPS out of my tank bag and up where I can see/use it better!



If someone wants to try the Zumo, make me an offer! The on/off switch stopped working several years ago but it still powers up and down fine when plugged in/unplugged and the battery holds power but probably not as long as when new (it's still the original). I have replaced the power socket from a cigarette lighter 'slip-in' style to a powerlet style so it wouldn't drop out on me with vibration but other than that it's factory standard, including the harness, RAM power adapter and box that it all came in. I have had it apart to identify the power switch, but just never got into sourcing a replacement and trying to solder it in where the rest of the SMDs live. Otherwise, it'll join the other misfit toys in my collection until my kids trash it all upon my death!

I am more than willing to help with any question once you get the unit.
I would also be interested in how the tariffs end up affecting your purchase (just thought of that).
If I can be of help just PM and I'll tell what little I know about it ...
BTW, I've never tried playing music on it as I have a dedicated MP3 player for that.
The software will probably be installed on the 'internal' drive but I always add a microsd card and run my version.