If not now, then..... when?

[Moto-Charlie]

A "guided tour" isn't a democracy... and any group larger then 3 bikes is "transport"... especially in alpine terrain...

While it's true that most guided tours are not democracies, I think the tour operator can certainly make it more flexible. I engage my tour members every day (and during the day) offering a couple of routing options and letting them pick if they want a route with narrow roads, high open passes, perhaps a cable car stop, etc. I poll them every day as to whether they want an early lunch or want to keep riding, do they want to cut the day short due to intermittent rain or keep riding, etc. My groups are small enough that we are very flexible.

"larger than 3 bikes is transport" may be true if you live and ride there as you do - we have Euro riders go by us frequently, but if you're from North America you appreciate the opportunity to ride some of the best riding in the world, be it 3 bikes or 8 bikes. I've seen outfits like Edelweiss ride with everyone essentially in a line with a leader and a sweep. On my tours the faster riders are in front, the more relaxed riders in the rear, everyone goes at their own pace. We tend to stay within sight of each other in the valleys transiting from one pass to another and then get strung out a bit enjoying the riding up and down the passes based on each rider's skill and pace, but if everyone is experienced it only takes 1 - 3 minutes to regroup, not a big deal at all.

 

[the Ferret]

but if you're from North America you appreciate the opportunity to ride some of the best riding in the world, be it 3 bikes or 8 bikes. I've seen outfits like Edelweiss ride with everyone essentially in a line with a leader and a sweep.

Agree with this 100%. I wasn't there to race anyone, and I wasn't there to test my cornering skills. I was just there to see the sights and the cities, enjoy the mountainous scenery, ride relaxed and enjoy the whole experience. On our tour with Edelweiss, we were as described, in a line, with a leader and a sweep. It was definitely not an issue for me. YMMV

 

[FastST]

Looks like you had a very enjoyable hike. I think Austria sometimes gets under rated, somewhat like a less pretentious, less fussy Switzerland (which I love) - but it is a beautiful country with a lot of wonderful nature spots to enjoy. For some reason it did not occur to me until I chanced upon an article in my news feed that Austria, Switzerland, etc. also have significant tick (and their related pathogen issues) populations like here in NH and hikers have to take care when in the woods (although Vienna supposedly has them too). I'm guessing that any you might have inadvertently picked were left floating in the glacial water.

It was nice to see your pics of Lienz. We stayed there in June and are going back in September, partly as a base for the Grossglockner.

Only Austria has tolls on its mountains passes. And draconian ones I should add.
Switzerland has plenty of beautiful mountains and roads.

 

[ST1100Y]

... the faster riders are in front, the more relaxed riders in the rear...

Nah, just the opposite...
newbies/slow folks right behind the guide, they determine his pace* there...
Experienced ones always at the rear, they won't have much of a problem to catch up; i.e. after passing vehicles/other obstructions...
And everyone is responsible for the fella behind him (drop off method), if that "convoy" in front of me makes a turn, and those behind me are not in my rear-view, I have to stop at that junction (as a marker) and wait for them!

* as said: groups is "transport"... common sense applies and rules to follow...

If its previously agreed on "next stop at..." and then the last four bikes in a group of seven (hence hard to spot/observe in my rear-view) have suddenly disappeared into thin air, I'll stop, walk to the third bike behind me to inquire where those behind him are... and all I get is a blank stare...
So I've to instruct them to stay here while I rush back doing a search party... there could have been an accident after all... so I've my eyes peeled for skid-marks and debris...

And then I find those four knuckleheads peacefully lounging at a pup because "... yeah, we have decided to go for a beer..." ... ah-ha...

And that right there was it for me with any "group rides"...

 

[FastST]

Nah, just the opposite...
newbies/slow folks right behind the guide, they determine his pace* there...
Experienced ones always at the rear, they won't have much of a problem to catch up; i.e. after passing vehicles/other obstructions...
And everyone is responsible for the fella behind him (drop off method), if that "convoy" in front of me makes a turn, and those behind me are not in my rear-view, I have to stop at that junction (as a marker) and wait for them!

* as said: groups is "transport"... common sense applies and rules to follow...

If its previously agreed on "next stop at..." and then the last four bikes in a group of seven (hence hard to spot/observe in my rear-view) have suddenly disappeared into thin air, I'll stop, walk to the third bike behind me to inquire where those behind him are... and all I get is a blank stare...
So I've to instruct them to stay here while I rush back doing a search party... there could have been an accident after all... so I've my eyes peeled for skid-marks and debris...

And then I find those four knuckleheads peacefully lounging at a pup because "... yeah, we have decided to go for a beer..." ... ah-ha...

And that right there was it for me with any "group rides"...

Yeah, if the riders not at the same skills level it is a nightmare.

 

[drrod]

My first trip to the Alps, I went with a tour outfit. We were given a route book before we even left home. Each day outlined a least 3 routes. Each route carried a description regarding length, skill level, what to see. Each morning the tour leader would say which route he was riding and those that wanted to join him could. Others could go their own choosing. Everyone knew the hotel at the end of the day. It didn't take more than a day for the group to split up into small (2-4) bikes. Worked great. Sometimes there were "late" arrivers at the hotel but nobody got lost.....for long. Still not as good as just winging it on your own or with a couple of other riders.

 

[Uncle Phil]

Yeah, if the riders not at the same skills level it is a nightmare.

That is rare occurrence if the group is of any size at all.

 

[Donk]

One of the reasons I ride alone. That and I have very few friends and would prefer to keep the few, ok one or two that I have.