Another high speed wooble accident

Rob Hephner said:
If your ST1300 wobbles or weaves it is 99.99999% of the time because YOU made it do that.

If your ST1300 wobbles or weaves and then doesn't under different roadway conditions it is 100% because of what YOU the rider are giving the bike as input.

Now, that being said the ST1300 does get pushed around a bit in the wind and may not be as easy to ride in wind as some other bikes, but a full on weave or wobble must start as an input from the rider.
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Next time your in MKE I'll let you try out my bike (under "you break it you buy it" terms). You will crap your pants above 110MPH. Funny thing is the bike was stable as all get out untill I had the tires replaces... now I don't enjoy my bike very much :(
 
h0nd4r1d3r said:
Next time your in MKE I'll let you try out my bike (under "you break it you buy it" terms). You will crap your pants above 110MPH. Funny thing is the bike was stable as all get out untill I had the tires replaces... now I don't enjoy my bike very much :(
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Curious, what kind of tires did you go to?
 
h0nd4r1d3r said:
Next time your in MKE I'll let you try out my bike (under "you break it you buy it" terms). You will crap your pants above 110MPH. Funny thing is the bike was stable as all get out untill I had the tires replaces... now I don't enjoy my bike very much :(
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Do you honestly spend that much time running above 110mph - so much so that you now don't enjoy your bike very much?

Just curious.

Steve
 
stellarpod said:
Do you honestly spend that much time running above 110mph - so much so that you now don't enjoy your bike very much?

Just curious.

Steve
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Yes... I usually commute at 90+ and when I want to have fun I open it up... so my fix is to buy a second bike for short highspeed days and keep the ST for longer trips where I typically don't abuse speed limits. I don't suspect the tires (I love the new tires), they are Pilot Road 2s.
 
h0nd4r1d3r said:
Yes... I usually commute at 90+ and when I want to have fun I open it up... so my fix is to buy a second bike for short highspeed days and keep the ST for longer trips where I typically don't abuse speed limits. I don't suspect the tires (I love the new tires), they are Pilot Road 2s.
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Hmmm, a V-shaped profile on a sport touring bike that feels twitchy? That's the issue.

And...

Since you chose to go with a tire not designed for the ST1300, the result is directly related to you. ;)
 
Re: Another high speed wobble accident

I don't think it's the PR2s. I have 10K on my set, regularly hit WFO out in the boonies, and like most riders in the last ST owners poll, https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22109 , I have never experienced the weave.

I'd be checking all factors, though: I personally wouldn't ride a motorcycle that felt dangerous at speed.
 
I've had my ST1300 since Summer '02 and the wobble was initially a severe issue until one of the factory recalls sorted it out. Prior to that, the bike was, frankly, scary.

Nowadays, I will very occasionally get it as I pass from 90-92 mph (indicated) with the bike heavily loaded, tyres over halfway worn, no pillion and the top-box fitted. It doesn't happen for me under any other circumstances. For reference, I am an ultra-conservative rider doing a lot of motorway miles so I really do end up squaring off the tyres through wear.

As soon as I get a hint of it, I just slow down/speed up as conditions dictate.

The well-documented Police variant wobble would certainly fit the same broad pattern as the approach seems to be to take a perfectly serviceable bike and load it down with about 100kg of kit, all way below the waterline...
 
Once again, that recall and ISSUE was related to the 2002 Pan European bikes and was never an issue in the US.

Bottom line, if you are not comfortable on a bike you should sell it and get something you like.
 
I experience the wooble two times on my bike in 3 years. When I was TESTING the final speed on the bike a mild wooble started at 137+ in a open windy road.

The other time was when I was caring some stuff on the back sit like tent, pipes, backpack etc... It started mild at 100+.

On the freeway I never have any problem with trucks, SUV's etc...

Average speed 80+. No topbox, 42PSI, middle adjusted back suspension, 170 Pounds guy.
 
Truth be told my 2006 st 1300 feels scary at speeds above 80 mph in any wind with just me on it.I could see this bike getting out of control with the wobble mine has !!! factory tires in great shape,pressure set to 42psi.
 
My '06 runs rock steady at speeds in excess of 100 (on a closed circuit track of course).
There must be something askew. Does it track at lower speeds with light touch on the handlebars? (I would never suggest hands free) Is it with the windscreen up or down? Do you wear those funny helmet enhancements? I once had trouble with my Beemer after having the front tire balanced by someone who did not know what they were doing. Perhaps it is something as obvious as a wheel weight missing. I'm just sayin'...
mike
 
While I do not doubt other folk's experiences with the weave, I simply have not found it in 16k of riding my '08. I ride solo, weigh 280, have varied the load and ridden to 145 indicated. I have installed a Corbin Smuggler trunk, and on my last trip a lunch box sized cooler on the rack. In this and other configurations I have ridden standing on the pegs at 90 mph, with no stability issues. Yes there is buffeting in dirty air, but no more than I'd expect of any vehicle on 2 or 4 wheels. I suspect that a large top box might contribute to instability, as would suspension pre-load settings.

What I really am wondering about concerns dealer assembly. From the start my bike pulled to the right, no matter what load, tire pressure or road conditions. At 14k I had the front tire replaced at an independent shop. The tech told me that the front axle bolts had been severely over tightened. He was very meticulous in his work, and I must conclude his assesment was correct, the bike no longer pulls to the right, tracking dead straight. If a dealer can't/won't get this right, what's to say they are not screwing something else up?
 
BigTom said:
Dayum.

I wish we could get a "collective body of knowledge" about this. I mean first person type, not "I heard..." or "The article said..." or "I read on the internet..."

We all know that the ST's we ride are rock solid. At least mine is and the ones I ride with are. What are the variables? Tire pressure? Tire Condition? Loading? Aerodynamics?

For every condition I can think of, I can already think of an exception. I mean, I've seen George and Mac on the road with tires lashed on their other stuff:) I've been known to ride a tire until just before the air shows...

What causes the condition?
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I agree Big Tom.
Even the original guys that assemble the ST when it arrives can make an error with the front shock fitting - recently heard of some guy in SA where that was the case...his bike handled like an epileptic pig...after the shocks were sorted and the rebound screwed in a tad , his bike handles well like the rest of ours...

And then of course there's the rider him/her self that can give rider feedback through tense arms...

and also the ST has a short wheel base ,so that it corners better than most but if not set-up correctly will "weave" at high speeds...(Very rare). And that's the real thing: IT"S A TOURER with speeding abilities NOT A SUPER-BIKE with touring pretensions.....
:rimshot1:
 
mpgar said:
.... Perhaps it is something as obvious as a wheel weight missing. I'm just sayin'...
mike
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Da Ace said:
And that's the real thing: IT"S A TOURER with speeding abilities NOT A SUPER-BIKE with touring pretensions.....
:rimshot1:
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A tourer without a top case ???? :rolleyes: ..... Perhaps it's just that the ST is unstable under certain conditions.

I posted this "obvious" question under the parallel UK police thread but will repeat it here: Won't get Honda to admit anything, but why do you think the top-case (rear trunk) ISN'T available in the US for the ST????

http://powersports.honda.com/2010/st1300/build.aspx

...... and don't give me any "distribution problems", or "limited sales", etc. when one IS available from the factory for the VFR1200 and NT700.... " I'm just sayin'..." ;)

http://powersports.honda.com/2010/vfr1200f/build.aspx
http://powersports.honda.com/2010/nt700v/build.aspx
 
TPadden said:
Perhaps it's just that the ST is unstable under certain conditions. I posted this "obvious" question under the parallel UK police thread but will repeat it here:

Won't get Honda to admit anything, but why do you think the top-case (rear trunk) ISN'T available in the US for the ST????

http://powersports.honda.com/2010/st1300/build.aspx

...... and don't give me any "distribution problems", or "limited sales", etc. when one IS available from the factory for the VFR1200 and NT700.... " I'm just sayin'..." ;)

http://powersports.honda.com/2010/vfr1200f/build.aspx
http://powersports.honda.com/2010/nt700v/build.aspx
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Obviously any top box will change the dynamics.

I have the Hondaline Topbox installed on my 2005 ST1300A. My son, James, has one on his 2006 ST1300A. Ordered both from the UK. We completed a big trip returning from TexSTOC in Los Alamos, NM to Houston last month.

This is what my GPS read the next morning:
2010_09_0222.jpg


No hint of any wobble on either bike. Just my 2c :rolleyes:

Andy :biker:+:amflag:+:ukflag1:+:CanFlag1:
 
amorley said:
Obviously any top box will change the dynamics.
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You didn't answer my question though.... why do you think the top-case (rear trunk) ISN'T available in the US for the ST????

Unless you are saying Honda thinks the dynamics of the ST are closer to the edge for the ST in the US (and Canada?) than the VFR or NT? :D???
 
amorley said:
Obviously any top box will change the dynamics.

I have the Hondaline Topbox installed on my 2005 ST1300A. My son, James, has one on his 2006 ST1300A. Ordered both from the UK. We completed a big trip returning from TexSTOC in Los Alamos, NM to Houston last month.

This is what my GPS read the next morning:
2010_09_0222.jpg


No hint of any wobble on either bike. Just my 2c :rolleyes:

Andy :biker:+:amflag:+:ukflag1:+:CanFlag1:
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The "Pan Weave" doesn't usually start under 115, sometimes more like 130, depending on load configuration and crosswind. That's may experience anyway.
 
My experience on my 03 WITH the top-box is a persistent side-to-side steering head movement which begins at about 110+ mph. This movement does not happen if we are riding two-up.

WITHOUT the top-box it seems very steady at whatever speed I have ridden.

I think this experience is consistent with some other owners and suggests aerodynamics are a significant factor here. Honda should have spent more time wind-tunnel testing.
 
I have ridden thousands of miles,
in all weather conditions,
with and without the top box,
and on two different ST1300's,
side boxes very unequally packed,
and the top box has not been an issue for me...

The basic dynamics of the bike is a short wheel-based machine that can corner very well.
This might be the only unstabilizing factor that a nervous rider could telegraph back through the handlebars...
Problems on any short wheel-based bike I hasten to add!!! eg Superbikes,
Let's not talk about long wheel based bikes (Harleys etc) at slow speeds......

Set up correctly, the bike will pretty much do more than most riders can do...

And most guys with little to no experience will be OK on them.

The more you ride the better it gets....

I have seen Gold Wing wobble - and if the rider was a novice he would also have hit the ground..

And virtually all super bikes will shake their heads at you ...hence the need for stabilizers on them!
I still don't believe that an ST needs one but if you're really scared get one fitted and let us all know.....
 
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