ABS II problems,(yes another one)

[jim'll break it]

if your sure the sensors done theres an easy way to remove it just looks kinda brutal take a drill through it in ever bigger sizes till you can colapse the outer and saves the mounting bracket from breaking

thats what i was doing but with a dewalt 13mm self piloting bit, it jammed in the neodymium magnet behind the hall IC and i had the torque limiter on the drill locked up,
the bracket just spun right off,
the alloy in that casting just wasnt designed for any kind of loading

 

[George]

Good news George. Glad one of us has ABS now.

Thanks to your sensor, Mark.

 

[George]

Well, I spoke too soon,,, (and probably jinxed myself when I said I hoped I wouldn't have any more maintenance issues for a while.) First, throttle linkage was hosed up when I first started the bike at about 1:15 PT. I was all packed and geared up, so took it all off and fixed the minor problems...

All packed and geared up again, took off from The CattHouse, at the first intersection, NO BRAKES!!!!! I had pumped up the front and pushed the bike around the garage without noticing any negatives, but had forgotten to pump up the back! BUT!!!...

...that wasn't the problem. Front brake lever was/is totally HARD with no braking. Roll a few more feet and it's working fine. Then, locks up again! Plus, the rear pedal feels very mushy.

I, of course, had all the calipers and associated bolts hanging loose when I had the forks off for rebuild. Also put in new front pads (pump the pistons out a little, clean'em with ScotchBrite and brake fluid, push'em all the way back in.) A little aggravation getting all the bolt holes lined up but it all went back together okay.

Now, I have the parts all unbolted from the forks again, and the front fender removed. Looking for an obvious foul-up, like wrong bolts in wrong holes, etc. Nothing obvious. Any hints?

In the meantime, I'm not going anywhere. Looks like early departure tomorrow if at all.

 

[Bigmak96]

Crap George that sucks,
If all checks out but the lever is still "wooden" just pull the fuzes. That's what I eventually did when I was having the wood problem. It must be bad connections on the electrical components.
Hope you can get on the road soon.
Please be safe.
Mark

 

[George]

I knew I'd read that symptom before, didn't realize it was you, Mark. No solution yet?

Seems weird this would happen to two bikes so close together. I'm not getting any lights or flashes, ABS shows all normal. How 'bout yours?

 

[George]

I found the rear master cylinder low on fluid but not empty,,, added some... Gonna bleed'em all to make sure there's fresh fluid in there.

I may have had sumpin' not installed correctly, just went thru the whole procedure to reattach all the valves on the front forks. The tail end of the front fender is a biatch! Test ride without the fender, all seems well, not to get it back together and try it again...

 

[George]

All appears to be okay now... Disassembled the brake elements on the front forks, looked for things out'a place, etc. Reconnected it all and things seem to be okay after two test rides. Re-packed, things are ready for an early AM departure...

 

[Digiamo]

Glad you got it sorted, George. After you get some sleep,
................GO RIDE!


Hopefully we'll see you in Twistyland, OH. after the wake.

 

[George]

Aaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgh!!! Abort, Abort, Abort!

Made it about 4 miles when the brakes locked again. Weird feeling to try to pull the brake lever and it's like someone put a stick in there! Get slowed to almost zero, and it release and operates normal 'til the next time, which might be the next time or 10 times out... When it releases, there's a definite <CLICK> (feel, not noise) and all returns to normal.

Secondary symptom: my rear pedal keeps going to zero, but pumps back up quickly. No ABS codes or faults, lights go out as normal and don't flash or nothin'.

Guess I gotta call Norm again.

It's something in the ABS, and Big Mac Mark has already done some trouble shooting on his without finding a solution. I'm gonna follow his lead and just pull the ABS fuses 'til I get home from the (already aborted twice) current trip.

Aaaaarrrrrgggggggh!

 

[Digiamo]

I assume you are NOT hearing or feeling the pump pulsate when the brakes lock...and if that's true I would start thinking it's the pump not releasing.
Then again, if you have issues with both front and rear on a non linked system, what's the common denominator? Front won't let go while the rear won't grab.
HHMMM. Could be in the ABS brain CPU.
Sorry, with all my early (93') ABS issues I have never seen this set of symptoms. Although I have solved issues by cleaning ALL ABS connections as this system is vulnerable to low voltage.

Check your battery connections

 

[Digiamo]

The "click" could be the ABS finally letting go as a natural result of the system never functioning at slow speeds even when it's working right...so it just turns itself off.

Those pulser rings need to be spinning at the same speed to "set" the ABS into "on" mode.

...all stuff you prolly figured out by now. I just wanna help.


I know! Let's just change the engine! I'll right over.

 

[George]

Thanks for the input, Danny. No simple resolutions at this point.

Fuses are pulled, I'm gonna GO RIDE!!!!

 

[Bigmak96]

I assume you are NOT hearing or feeling the pump pulsate when the brakes lock.

Just to be sure you understand what is happening Danny, the brakes don't lock as in full on breaking power. they act as if the lever and peddle are locked in position and applying no brakes. The pistons are staying in the "cover the orifice" position instead of momentarily covering and instantaneously getting out of the way so fluid can pass.
I is real freaky the first time it happens, then it just pisses you off!

 

[Bigmak96]

I hope pullong the fuzes does the trick for you too George.
See you in Ohio, unless I see you in Wisconsin first. Damn I wish Wisconsin was not on the possible itinerary. :censored

 

[Digiamo]

Thanks for enlightening me, Mark.
I suspect that as it is and since we don't know exactly whats causing the issue, YOU, George will BE CAREFUL OUT THERE...and check your brakes regularly even with the ABS fuses out. Maybe lock up the rear at slow to see if it lets go and all lever positions are correct.

I know, I sound like a nervous dad. Well, I guess it's obvious why. Among other things, I love you, George. :lucky:

 

[sofawizard]

just a thought is it the linked brake system mod if so its a plumbing issue there is a compensator valve in there someplace could be sticking

 

[Bigmak96]

just a thought is it the linked brake system mod if so its a plumbing issue there is a compensator valve in there someplace could be sticking

The "modulator" sends pistons to, cover the fluid path till it knows the wheels are turning. If locked up, the pistons keep the flow blocked. This all happens without us feeling it. What seams to be happening to George and me earlier is the pistons don't get the signal to retract and we have "wooden" controlles that offer no braking. it is a bit disconcerting the first time forn sure.
No spell check at work, sorry.

 

[jim'll break it]

I rebuilt the rear pump on mine bigmak and the pistons dont cover any holes on my one, the pistons vary the volume of the fluid transfer system, with the power off the system is at minimum volume,
when the abs activates the motor pulls back the pistons (two per pump), the angle sensor tells the abs ecu how much
on the abs II model the abs cant cause a solid lever, possibly a broken pump return spring might cause a spongy lever,

@george maybe a master cylinder problem or something wrong with the delay valve or proportional control valve

 

[George]

Wow, can't believe I have been back on this thread in months. Anywa, my "locked up brakes" problem turned out to be the smaller circumference car tar. Once a full size MC tar was back in place, no more problems...

On to the next "fix". I installed the Honeywell speed sensor unit on lipSTick this morning, replacing the loaner OEM unit borrowed from Mark last summer. Upon initial roll, lights went out, then started flashing with a a hundred feet. Recycled everything and tried again. No go. Getting #6 and #7 flashes, indicating rear speed sensor and/or power problem. It's possible I crossed a couple wires but I don't think so...

More to come.

 

[George]

Well, I tried the Honeywell again after checking the wiring (correct). No go. Everything worked fine before removing the loaner I have from Big Mac. Installed the Honeywell, rolled, lights went out (Hooray!) then flashed a bunch and came on solid. (Boo-Hoo!) Diagnostic check got me 6 flashes, rear speed sensor again. Reinstalled Mark's sensor and all is good again.

So, can't recommend the Honeywell unless someone else comes up with a solution.

By the way, this is the same model (1GT101DC) Jim installed successfully back in post #29.