Considering to buy a 2002, but with a stalling / electrical issue

[Sadlsor]

That's what I was trying to say, clumsily.
@Andrew Shadow said it more eloquently.
So read his post, ignore my vain attempts to convey the same.

 

[roxteady]

A little different perspective for consideration.

Everything on the above list, with the exception of the first line, I consider to have a high degree of probability that they will need to be done on any used ST that is purchased. These are known issues that need to be dealt with on any used ST1300, the exception being those that have a combination of very low mileage and/or proof of scheduled maintenance having been meticulously accomplished. Those types of ST1300's exist, but they are not always available when a person is in the market, and they usually command top dollar. For that reason, I would take all of those items off of the list of strikes against purchasing this motorcycle. These items would have to be considered as potential required maintenance expenditures that will need to be done to any other used ST that might be looked at as well. In that sense, this one is no better or no worse than any other used ST1300 that you might be considering, as it will have the same degree of possibility of needing these same repairs. That kind of levels the playing field, leaving only issues with this motorcycle that are not considered routine to analyze and decide how they influence this as a potential purchase.

That leaves the electrical issue to be decided upon. From your description, it sounds like a ground fault. That is something that is easily fixed even if it might be difficult to find. If that is the case, you will have found a good motorcycle at a ridiculously low price. The considerable amount of money that you stand to save on the purchase price will cover the cost of any routine repairs and maintenance items that are normally needed on any used ST1300 that has accumulated average mileage. You would most likely have to spend at least some of that same money on any other used ST1300 that you might purchase on top of a much higher price.

A recommendation to purchase this motorcycle or not can not be given as we can not evaluate it. What I am suggesting is that this electrical fault, based on your description, is probably easily fixed. This purchase should be evaluated based upon the condition and merits of the whole motorcycle, the same as you would evaluate any other potential purchase. It should not be disregarded simply because of the electrical issue. If the rest of the motorcycle appears to be a good purchase, then you must decide if you want to tackle fixing the electrical issue. If you do, you quite possibly might end up with a good ST1300 for a ridiculously low price.

Thanks for this extensive reply on this topic and I went ahead and bought the bike. Will pick her up on Sunday and will use the coming fall and winter to inspect and hopefully find any error and faults. If all goes well, she will be a good tourer for the few long trips I have during a year, with the VFR 800 acting as the bike for daily use. Thanks again and I trust I will be needing your professional opinions and knowledge again when I know more about the bike.

Cheers from Norway.

 

[ad.hom]

I'll buck the trend...

Assuming the faults are limited to what we know here, I probably would buy the bike. Then I'd pull the nose cone & left fairing, sort the electrical issue in the yellow 9P near the right headlight, then the 24P that resides in the left fairing. That sounds like it'd cure what we know about the electrical gremlins. Maybe a look at the other ground points and swap the battery.

Then I'd take stock of what else needed doing, and either flip it on to someone else earning a bit of money on the sale (because the electrics should be solved, and the rest is just age related for any bike), or fix it up & ride it.

 

[roxteady]

Thanks again for all the input from everyone. I picked up the bike yesterday and it does not give the impression of being ridden close to 100k miles at all. Really tight and well served, so believe I got a good deal. Manage to ride it for about 300 miles without any issues (other than the headlight having to be disconnected before start due to the ground-issue).
Will aim for removal of nose cone and left fairing and follow ad.hom's guide above and report back.

 

[mjc506]

Find/fix the ground fault(s), and run through the 'suggested maintenance for a new (old) bike' article, and you should have an excellent investment

 

[roxteady]

So, I have so far pulled off the left fairing and have attached some pictures. Will investigate further with some voltage measurements and remove nose cone to inspect 9p behind right headlight. Any input on this so far?

 

[Sadlsor]

"Crusty" comes to mind, whilst viewing the once-white 24-pin connector block.
Some might suggest you clean and inspect the connectors for evidence of burning / melting / shorting.
There are other threads, as mentioned, about the places to check for such problems.
Thus far, I've only been a lurking witness to such gremlins, as I got a young one with a still- healthy nervous system.
I recall there's a ground wire going into the 24-pin block, but if I say much else, I might steer you wrong.

 

[mjc506]

You wouldn't want to eat your dinner off of that

But it looks like they've been well greased, which is good (keeps water out etc, but does attract muck as you can see) Pins look ok from here, but it wouldn't hurt to clean it all up and apply fresh (dielectric/silicone) grease. Any corroded pins should be cleaned (or replaced if too far gone). The 'common' one is the ground pin - if this is burnt (doesn't look like it from the photos), it can be easier just to bypass it (cut the wire each side, crimp another connector, done )

There's another ground block up behind the dash/behind the right hand headlight. I reckon you'll be able to see it (although it may be wrapped in black tape with the rest of the harness) by removing the dash (8 screws, 2 push pins) but you'll probably need to remove the screen and panel beneath to actually work on it (screen is a few screws, the panel beneath is just push pins I think, but remove the dash as well for better access). If this ground block is damaged/burnt, probably the easiest fix is to cut it off, crimp ring terminals to each ground wire (14 I think, maybe 16), and connect together with a suitable bolt. You can 'belt and braces' this by adding another (larger) wire from the bolt to the frame somewhere - this provides an additional good ground connection, therefore you're not relying on the ground in that multiway connector above remaining good.

I'll go take a photo or two of my 'fix'... back shortly...

 

[mjc506]

Here we are:

Sorry, I lied. Dash removal is two push-pins (at the top), 10 screws (2 each side of the dash, 2 under each 'pocket', and one behind each mirror housing) and a bit of fiddling with the rubber infill pieces and the connections behind (if you leave the dash disconnected for too long, you lose time and trip meters. I don't know how long 'too long' is)

Under the dash. Top centre, you can see a bolt which attaches the power windscreen assy to the front subframe, attached to which is my large ground wire (ring terminal with yellow cover) The earth block is (was) underneath the 'corner' in the frame just to the right of those two relays (where the bundles of cables are headed) If you go here and zoom in on the relays, you'll just see a green wire with yellow strip emerging from the harness just to the right of the relays and going behind the frame. The ground block is (was) right by this.

This is peering down between the front of the frame and the plastics, with the rubber mat pulled up out of the way. That yellow ring terminal visible in the previous image is visible on the left, and you can see the wire heading to another on the right, connected to the shiny bolt with lots of ring terminals (red covers). I should note that while leaving the bolt uncovered is probably ok (a ground connection touching the frame isn't going to be a problem...), I did paint mine in (clear) conforming compound, more from corrosion concerns than anything else.

 

[roxteady]

Thanks for this mjc506. Having assembled everything, it seems as though everything now works. What we essentially did was to clean the 24p connection and re-attached it to the plastic bay where it should sit. I put a small plastic bag over it to be sure - might be a bad idea?
I now heard from the previous owner in that the cooling reservoir have previously given the impression of being clogged, so I will re-remove (is that even a word?) all plastics on left side once again and flush the cooling system and add new coolant. I thought of this thread https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/fixed-my-electrical-problem-headlights-dash-lites-horn-turn-signals-windshield.124335/#post-2327765, and will for the sake of good order lift the tank and look at the main ground point to see whether this might have contributed to the issues I had previously. In addition I am thinking of adding a new earth connection from below the 24p connection and route this straight to the frame to be certain.
Again, I bow in respect to all the fantastic knowledge here on this forum -I believe I ultimately did a very good purchase of the bike as it is now running smooth. I am again and again thinking that such forums as this are actually the most valuable side of the whole internet, as the "rest" of the internet seems to be one large marketplace intended to make you buy things you do not need (and this comes from a guy that just added his 3rd bike to his garage - oh, the irony!).

 

[roxteady]

A side question worth asking when I have a lot of good competence available: any one here know if there is an easy way of getting "US-type turn signals" which you remain constant with the park/driving light switch on and flash if the turn signal switch left or right is turned on? Is there a relay of some sort or any larger operation needed to get this. I like the looks of the constant orange lights when after all the turn signal housings are incorporated into the body of the bike.

 

[mjc506]

Glad you got it running

Plastic bag shouldn't be needed, but so long as any water that gets in (there will be water that gets in somehow) can drain, unlikely to cause issues.

It'd be worth running through this article: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/maintenance-items-needed-for-a-new-old-bike.176679/ and any problems you do find are probably covered in one of the other fine articles available here!

Re running lights - how about this sort of thing: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153738218174?hash=item23cb830abe:g:eh4AAOSwE0def27t

 

[Hound]

A side question worth asking when I have a lot of good competence available: any one here know if there is an easy way of getting "US-type turn signals" which you remain constant with the park/driving light switch on and flash if the turn signal switch left or right is turned on? Is there a relay of some sort or any larger operation needed to get this. I like the looks of the constant orange lights when after all the turn signal housings are incorporated into the body of the bike.

US bikes use dual filament turn signal bulbs (7443) in contrast to single filament on European bikes (7440). They're 21W/6W. If you only want amber running lights and amber turn signals and want to do the mod on the cheap, you'd need to buy 7443 sockets (about €11) and amber 7443 bulbs (about €6), which unfortunately don't have quite the same keyway in the turn signal lens housings - you'd have to tweak with a file. Next you would need to wire the ground and live socket wires to your signal feed, either with new Honda connectors or 2-pin alternatives. To power the running lights you'd then have to plumb the third wire (white/black) from the socket to the live feed to your sidelights. You then have 21W turn signals and 6W running lights.



It sounds complicated but isn't too bad, plus you'd then have the option to run white/amber switchbacks if you wanted if you had clear lenses.

mjc506's link is expensive but makes the job far easier as all the connections are provided, with clear lenses. Plus it converts all your turn signals/stop/tail/sidelights to LED, with an LED flasher unit and harness tap to the sidelights. You end up with bright white daytime running lights in your mirror lenses which change to amber when you operate the turn signal.

Sorry for the thread derail!

 

[roxteady]

Many thanks for this and no worries about derailing - instead of opening 100 new threads, I feel the silly small questions from my side might as well be asked in this thread since I seem to be having the attention of some very experienced people.
Turning back to the 24p connection, does anyone know the part number for the rubber cap visible on this picture?

 

[Bmacleod]

Many thanks for this and no worries about derailing - instead of opening 100 new threads, I feel the silly small questions from my side might as well be asked in this thread since I seem to be having the attention of some very experienced people.
Turning back to the 24p connection, does anyone know the part number for the rubber cap visible on this picture?

Considering that the "boot" would need to be installed before installing the plugs at the ends, I would bet that isnt available and is a part of the harness

 

[roxteady]

Considering that the "boot" would need to be installed before installing the plugs at the ends, I would bet that isnt available and is a part of the harness

Makes a lot of sense - thanks!

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Turning back to the 24p connection, does anyone know the part number for the rubber cap visible on this picture?

US vendor. He charges $14.00 USD for international shipping.
Wiring Harness Connector Covers

 

[Chris09]

FWIW, these are complex bikes; if I could weigh out... well, it might be a bit like that scene in No Country for Old Men, you know, just before Woody Haralson gets his guts splattered all over the carpet. In my opinion [now vs before I took that first fateful ride] I kind of liked my CB650, no, not that one, the first one... or was the second one... either way, life was easy.
Having said that, they're a bit bigger, easier to handle and take the dirty wind, I pulled in behind a fellow rider passing on the 7, glanced down and caught the needle dropping below 160k, you just don't notice these things after a while on this bke.

 

[roxteady]

So, a little update on the bike I ended up buying. And again I am seeking help and problem seems to be similar as the one mention further up this thread.
Now I have managed to isolate the issue:
- if I have the headlight switch in off-mode (furthest to the right), the fuel pump starts and the bike starts without any issues. If the headlight is turned to middle or left the bike stalls
- If started and the switch is turned to middle or left, the bike stalls. Only way to get it to start again is to set the switch to off, unplug battery, reattach battery and start.
- the fuel pump will not run if light switch is on
- setting the switch to left will keep the park lights, neutral and red oil pressure-light on, even when removing the ignition-key!! Only way to reset is by putting back in "off"-mode and unplug battery and re-attach.

Any thoughts to what the issue could be? Thanks a lot for any input.

 

[Al st1100]

With out turning the light reach in there and grab the wire loom anywhere it moves when turning. . give it a wiggle test and try to isolate where it's shorted , broken or loose. there are a few grounds or earth, bolted to the frame near the headlight that have been an isue.