Fuel pump

RichKat

RichKat

Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
555
Age
66
Location
Rhome Texas
Bike
2011 ST_1300 PA
Back when it was warm (108 f) I was having an issue where if I parked my 1300 and, say ran in the store, when I took off the bike would loose power and almost stall. This happened when the fuel level was low (2 bars or less). Would only happen for a second, and then be ok. I got in the habit of keeping my tank topped off. From what I've read it's probably my fuel pump, so I went ahead and ordered a new pump, and will install it this weekend. My question is should I change the filter at the same time, my top tank is VERY clean, and if my bottom tank is as clean, do I really need to spend $60 more on the filter. are there any replacement filters I can use? feels like a lot of money for a filter. My bike has 38000 miles on it
 
With all the crap in our fuel nowadays, it may be a good idea to replace the fuel filter, as well as the packing (gasket) and fuel hoses.
DO NOT use ANY aftermarket fuel bits (such as the ones supplied with aftermarket pumps) as they are NOT designed to be submerged in fuel etc.
Use ONLY Honda OEM fuel line hoses etc.
These have commonly been known to fail after a few months, or a couple thousand miles.
And just because you hear the fuel pump wind up, does not mean that its still holding pressure etc.
The lines inside that you don't see, can fail and bleed off pressure.
Be sure to follow the service manual's torque sequence as well, as they are different between years (read the small print)
Do NOT over torque the cover nuts, or you'll be removing the entire swingarm and ass end of the bike to remove the lower fuel tank.
*These are another members pictures*
VideoCapture_20210102-142916.jpg20220424_194344.jpgthumbnail_image0.jpgthumbnail_image4.jpg
 
Igofar said:
With all the crap in our fuel nowadays, it may be a good idea to replace the fuel filter, as well as the packing (gasket) and fuel hoses.
DO NOT use ANY aftermarket fuel bits (such as the ones supplied with aftermarket pumps) as they are NOT designed to be submerged in fuel etc.
Use ONLY Honda OEM fuel line hoses etc.
These have commonly been known to fail after a few months, or a couple thousand miles.
And just because you hear the fuel pump wind up, does not mean that its still holding pressure etc.
The lines inside that you don't see, can fail and bleed off pressure.
Be sure to follow the service manual's torque sequence as well, as they are different between years (read the small print)
Do NOT over torque the cover nuts, or you'll be removing the entire swingarm and ass end of the bike to remove the lower fuel tank.
*These are another members pictures*
VideoCapture_20210102-142916.jpg20220424_194344.jpgthumbnail_image0.jpgthumbnail_image4.jpg
Click to expand...
Igofar said:
With all the crap in our fuel nowadays, it may be a good idea to replace the fuel filter, as well as the packing (gasket) and fuel hoses.
DO NOT use ANY aftermarket fuel bits (such as the ones supplied with aftermarket pumps) as they are NOT designed to be submerged in fuel etc.
Use ONLY Honda OEM fuel line hoses etc.
These have commonly been known to fail after a few months, or a couple thousand miles.
And just because you hear the fuel pump wind up, does not mean that its still holding pressure etc.
The lines inside that you don't see, can fail and bleed off pressure.
Be sure to follow the service manual's torque sequence as well, as they are different between years (read the small print)
Do NOT over torque the cover nuts, or you'll be removing the entire swingarm and ass end of the bike to remove the lower fuel tank.
*These are another members pictures*
VideoCapture_20210102-142916.jpg20220424_194344.jpgthumbnail_image0.jpgthumbnail_image4.jpg
Click to expand...
You mention not to over torque fuel pump cover bolts. Changed out fuel filter with new fuel pump cover gasket. Filled main tank fuel started weeping out from under new gasket. Made a mistake by tightening bolts very stug, to try to stop the leak. Leak just got worst. Must have deformed the rubber gasket. If the over torqued bolts are not stripped. Is the tank still good. Why is there different torque pattern on 2004 + on? Have 03 + think tank may have been replaced. How to identify year of secondary fuel tank
 
You mentioned not to over torque fuel pump cover nuts. Changed out fuel filter with new fuel pump gasket. Filled main tank. Fuel started weeping from under new rubber gasket. Made a mistake by tightening very snug, to try to stop the leak. Leak got worse. Must have deformed the rubber gasket. If the over torqued bolts are not stripped, is the tank still good. Why is there a different torque sequence in 2004 + on fuel tank nuts? Have 03 + think tank may have been replaced. How can you identify year of secondary fuel tank?
 
20221018_114526.jpg

Here is the sequence. Did mine twice with no leaks. Check to make sure there is nothing between the gasket and tank. Go easy . Use torque wrench. I done mine in 2 steps. Make sure the inside wire goes inside not on the gasket, mine stuck there for a bit.

It says not to use old gasket but I'd retry it
 
For a task with such onerous consequences if you damage the threads, and such a low torque setting on the wrench, I'd test the wrench on a bolt held in a vise. First of all, torque wrenches are most accurate in the middle of their range, so don't use a 1/2" drive wrench with adapters down to 1/4" drive sockets. Select the appropriate torque wrench, put a scrap bolt in the vise and put the wrench on it. Nine ft-lbs means you are pulling with a force of 9 lbs on the end of a 12" long wrench (distance from center of socket to center of your hand on the handle). You should be able to estimate this easily.

Not sure how to ID a replacement tank, but hopefully the appropriate tank was installed for the year of the bike. My manual shows both torque sequences but makes no mention of the visual differences of the tank's cover. The only difference is for early tanks, you begin tightening the bolts with what is shown above (post #7) as bolt #3, then follow the same pattern. Here is the '03 sequence:

IMG_6961.jpg
 
Tdinova said:
20221018_114526.jpg

Here is the sequence. Did mine twice with no leaks. Check to make sure there is nothing between the gasket and tank. Go easy . Use torque wrench. I done mine in 2 steps. Make sure the inside wire goes inside not on the gasket, mine stuck there for a bit.

It says not to use old gasket but I'd retry it
Click to expand...
Appreciate your advice.
 
I have a couple of fuel pump questions and this seems the place to do it.

1) what is the ground wire "thing" that looks like the end of a light bulb? Mine is denigrated. (Edit 1) I figured it out,. This is the thermistor for the low fuel indicator.

2) the wires pulled away from the pump connector. Are these polarity specific? (Edit 2) I studied the pictures and looked at the pump and figured this out as well.

My pump was/is nasty having been stored for a long time with an empty tank. All the plastic shielding, around the wiring, has denigrate.
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You might want to keep an eye on Ebay for replacements, a rust free pump assembly to rebuild. Might want to look for a rust free tank and fuel level assembly as well, but likely your tank can be cleaned and sealed.
One of my hobbies was restoring hopeless bikes since I was much younger. Can't seem to get out of the habit.
 
Oldbikefixr said:
You might want to keep an eye on Ebay for replacements, a rust free pump assembly to rebuild. Might want to look for a rust free tank and fuel level assembly as well, but likely your tank can be cleaned and sealed.
One of my hobbies was restoring hopeless bikes since I was much younger. Can't seem to get out of the habit.
Click to expand...
The strange part is I am not seeing a lot of rust in the tank. It's as if the pump and to a lesser degree the fuel filter acted like a sacrificial anode.

I too have a soft spot in my heart for old bikes. When I was a kid I wanted a motorcycle so bad that I cashed out my entire college savings of $90 and bought a non-running Honda SL125. I have been buying bikes in boxes ever since. Mostly I have built Triumphs and Nortons which, when compared to the ST1300 are a bit like ox carts compared to the Space Shuttle. I am used to seeing bikes and what the ravages of time can do. I am having a hard time with the ST1300. The last one made was over 10 years ago and my 2006 model was built almost 20 years ago. I remember these bikes as new and to some degree they are still new modern bikes in my eyes. It's just that time marches on much to my shock and amazement.

By the way, I always store my bikes with a full tank of gas. I feel the the lack of fuel led to the oxidation.
 
tnbill said:
Jom do you spend any time on access norton or briitbike. Com?
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Yep, I spend time on AccessNorton.com although I have been remiss since I got the ST project. I have a long association with Norton's specifically and British bikes in general. This is my "74 *50 Commando keeping my Guzzi Quota company. (The Guzzi was sold last year.)
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I have bern a member on there since about 2004 but almost never post anymore. I go by bill on there and bill50cal on britbike. You remember hobot ? He was a true character

:rofl1:
 
tnbill said:
I have bern a member on there since about 2004 but almost never post anymore. I go by bill on there and bill50cal on britbike. You remember hobot ? He was a true character

:rofl1:
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I post some but I do not use my Norton as much as I should. I have a 50 mile twisty loop I ride (twisty for Texas) and I do this once every two weeks. The bike is bullet proof but I know that my days of pushing it up in the truck are numbered so I am a bit apprehensive when I ride. I miss Hobot. He stories and comments were first rate. No one seems to know what happened. He just vanished.
 
Big_Jim59 said:
The strange part is I am not seeing a lot of rust in the tank. It's as if the pump and to a lesser degree the fuel filter acted like a sacrificial anode.

I too have a soft spot in my heart for old bikes. When I was a kid I wanted a motorcycle so bad that I cashed out my entire college savings of $90 and bought a non-running Honda SL125. I have been buying bikes in boxes ever since. Mostly I have built Triumphs and Nortons which, when compared to the ST1300 are a bit like ox carts compared to the Space Shuttle. I am used to seeing bikes and what the ravages of time can do. I am having a hard time with the ST1300. The last one made was over 10 years ago and my 2006 model was built almost 20 years ago. I remember these bikes as new and to some degree they are still new modern bikes in my eyes. It's just that time marches on much to my shock and amazement.

By the way, I always store my bikes with a full tank of gas. I feel the the lack of fuel led to the oxidation.
Click to expand...
Cool!! Most of my rebuilds were 1960's Honda. My biggest challenge was a 1967 305 Super Hawk that I found completely disassembled. No two parts remained stuck together and what would fit was all in boxes. Parts were sorted into these boxes by assembly, sort of.....hardware in one box, lights in one, and so forth. We had a large old farmhouse at that time so I used the spare/empty bedroom and arranged the entire stash out on the floor, mimicking the part explosions from the repair manual. I just flagged the really bad parts and replaced them in my layout with new parts as I got them. It turned out well....not a single left over part. One of my ex co-workers still has it, he called me last week to let me know the kick starter seal was leaking, first problem he's had with it.

I sold my old bikes right after I retired. Started on a 1970 Kaw H1 that needed only a bit more than paint and polish. One day I realized I had been sitting on my stool beside it daydreaming for hours. The thrill never returned. So, sold all my old collection and I bought two ST's, the older one needed some attention.

I found the rust in my 1991's tank when I removed the pump assembly and fuel level units for inspection and gasket replacements. There was absolutely no rust visible through either the filler neck or pump assembly hole but the filter was full of it. It was all growing from the top of the tank and I could wipe off some large flakes with my finger. Didn't trust a rust remover/sealant (from a local auto repair supply shop), since I wouldn't be able to see the result, to fix the problem so I replaced it. If that area is clean, yours is fine.

Gott'a learn to be brief and not ramble.
 
Oldbikefixr said:
I found the rust in my 1991's tank when I removed the pump assembly and fuel level units for inspection and gasket replacements. There was absolutely no rust visible through either the filler neck or pump assembly hole but the filter was full of it. It was all growing from the top of the tank and I could wipe off some large flakes with my finger. Didn't trust a rust remover/sealant (from a local auto repair supply shop), since I wouldn't be able to see the result, to fix the problem so I replaced it. If that area is clean, yours is fine.
Click to expand...
I plan on scrubbing the inside of the ST tank with a Scotchbrite pad and maybe a brash brush. I looked last night and all was dry and there is no visible rust on the tank walls or floor. I do see a pile of dry flaky bits but I am sure that this comes from the pump itself or it is the remains of the factory wire wrap that perished at a touch. Oh. . . it seems that the big rubber boot, at the base of the pump assembly, that holds the pre filter mesh turned gooey. There is a black residue on the bottom of the tank that is an indication of where it rested. The mesh filter sock, at the base of the pump, was half blocked with a sticky tar that was a remnant of the rubber boot. I ordered another one plus I ordered two OEM Honda hoses. I also ordered a new thermistor for the low fuel indicator from a different vendor.

I am lucky, I have never had to seal a tank but that's probably a result if doing only British bike rebuilds and restorations. British tanks tend to be much heaver than their oriental counterparts.
 
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