I am very curious what solutions your students find. As maintenance procedures go, swapping the 'stat is not a big deal, but yanking the front wheel, fender, radiator, and frame brace simply to get to the thermostat housing is a tad more involved than doing so on a car with the thermostat on the front or top of the engine. In fact, I would describe it as a pita. Let us know what they decide is the best thing to do.
"Get me home switch" - list of bypasses
- Thread starter aSTerix
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Here are the ideas so far:
- inline thermostat 'Y', (see photo) normally in open mode, divert at higher temperature than normal thermostat set to. So if the normal thermostat jams closed this will open after a delay.
- Install an oil cooler at oil filter with manual ON OFF, normally not using oil cooler radiator but can be switched in if needed
- install an electromagnet on the thermostat housing to pull the thermostat diaphragm open
- Remove existing thermostat and install an inline one in a more accessible location
- Remove existing thermostat and install an actuated valve triggered by a temperature sensor
They are just brainstorming ideas at the moment, its nice to see them thinking out of the box
Andrew Shadow
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It sounds as if his goal is not simply to disable an inoperative item or circuit. My understanding is that his goal is to have the ability to disable it while at the same time activating a bypass to take over that items electrical feed and/or function. Simply removing fuses will disable the inoperative item's circuit, but it will not introduce any functional bypass to take over the affected functions.
Bmacleod
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Did any student come up with the idea of simply changing the defective thermostat for a brand new factory one and enjoy years of trouble free operation?
if you're going to use common sense, this isn't the thread for you.
more like this in reality , its the Police spec harness, now on a pin board ready for labelling then will be opened and modified. The teenagers love doing this analogue stuff, it makes a nice change from hacking CANBUS but I am getting a lot of requests to integrate a digital bus system and have a hybrid. We will see !!
everything you are planning to do have one thing in common ,, they all have failure rates. And isn't this a description of a thermostat "Here are the ideas so far:
They also want to install a clear filter in the radiator line to see the flow and if the coolant is contaminated
- inline thermostat 'Y', (see photo) normally in open mode, divert at higher temperature than normal thermostat set to. So if the normal thermostat jams closed this will open after a delay.
- Install an oil cooler at oil filter with manual ON OFF, normally not using oil cooler radiator but can be switched in if needed
- install an electromagnet on the thermostat housing to pull the thermostat diaphragm open
- Remove existing thermostat and install an inline one in a more accessible location
- Remove existing thermostat and install an actuated valve triggered by a temperature sensor
They are just brainstorming ideas at the moment, its nice to see them thinking out of the box
- actuated valve triggered by a temperature sensor " ?? The spring being the temp sensor ?
How about a manual ball valve that bypasses a stuck shut thermostat? One of those 90deg turn type valves (like a petcock).
So back in the mid 80's I passed through Dubai on my way to India. So I do understand your "hot" predicament.
Since you are in a very, very Hot environment the need for a thermostat is not necessary.
The thermostat is needed for cold environments so that the motor can get up to operating temperature. you are almost there before you turn on the key.
So for you, to keep it simple, is to completely remove the thermostat. if you do the fluid will flow faster, which is better for you, and nothing to fail.
Maybe put on a larger radiator or better, extra radiators in the back to keep the heat off your feet.
The oil cooler should cool all the time, no need for on/off valve and mounted in the back.
Run all led lights to lighten the load on the 1100 alternator.
but you will need to add a refrigeration pump for your cooling vest......
or use a Thermo-electric cooling vest that uses the Peltier effect....
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The bikes are both ex-police and when I got them both thermostats were removed. I asked the dealer and they said that is normal here and mentioned that it improves cooling.
The first suggestion was to remove the thermostat and eliminate the problem, which is how the bikes came from the police. The purpose of the exercise though is for the students to learn how to think out of the box, a lot of them assist on special off road vehicles , so thinking through the possible failures and having a simple mitigation is a useful skillset.
Thermostats have a very short life here and also in Africa which is why the tend to be dispensed with
The ST1100 is proving a very useful training bike because it has a lot in common with the off road vehicles (system wise)
In terms of context, there is no-one who has been in this environment who wants to do any road(desert)-side repair in the summer
I'll give them another week to brainstorm and feed this into the discussion as a good example of how something very simple can be overlooked ,although they did come up with eliminating the thermostat as the first solution !
It does depend on perspective. From a normal day to day motorcyce riding perspective I totally agree.if you're going to use common sense, this isn't the thread for you.
The whole point of the training though is for the students to balance common sense practicality with thinking out of the box and help them with designing solutions for the special purpose vehicles (2 wheel and 4 wheel) they assist on.
The thread though is specifically about the ST1100 (because thats what they are working with on the course) and at the end of the course the best designs will be implemented and tested in real life.
I get a side benefit, it means that when I ride the ST1100 and have a failure I won't have to roast in the heat to try and fix it, I either push the "get me home button" or I send a Whatsapp message (or Garmin sateliite inreach message) to the course group and they can come and fix it !!!!!
I believe this to be less than great advice, and here's why I say that:
A thermostat operates by making sure only hot coolant leaves the engine. This is obvious with a cold engine, but think of an engine at operating temperature. After removing the thermostat, the coolant will flow freely through the system and get cooled by the radiator and fan, but while in the engine, it may not stay in contact with the engine long enough to absorb heat.
Now, I admit that I do not speak from motorcycle experience, as the ST is my first liquid-cooled bike (as well as my first shaftie), but from my general automotive knowledge, kinda like Lisa in My Cousin Vinny.
why do you think a clear filter would tell you is the coolant is contaminated and with what? What is the need for a filter? What size filtering material would you use?
This is the clear perspex filter the students found and want to experiment with https://ganofilters.com
This is what the manufacturer says:
"The Gano Auto Coolant Filter is a patented device that prevents radiator and coolant system damage. It removes rust scale, gasket material and other foreign particles from the cooling system before they can build-up and clog or block radiator cooling tubes. It is also used as a diagnostic tool for analyzing overall coolant system operation by providing a “window” into the over-all flow of coolant. The Gano Filter is an accessory to the cooling system, designed to be installed in the upper radiator hose of your automobile. It is a full flow device, which traps foreign particles thus avoiding radiator repair or replacement due to clogging."
Would be beneficial to get your technical analysis and I will feed that back to the course
This has been discussed many times over the years and shows how many different parameters engineers have to consider when designing an engine. I remember this discussion about removing a thermostat completely from a Smokey Yunik column more than a few years ago. If anyone chimes in, 'hey, I remember that guy', fair warning, you are revealing your age....
Bmacleod
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Smokey was a legend
But all the new parts you're adding into the mix have the potential to fail in some way or another, just like the parts they're bypassing. In some cases that may not have any overall negative effect, but in some cases it will. For example, all the items being added to the cooling system plumbing are new potential leak sources that didn't exist before.
The engine will run just fine without a thermostat in his environment. Air cooled bikes have no thermostat.
The main reason the thermostat was added to cars was so that the heater and most importantly the defroster will work quickly.
long ago, I had a mini pickup that over heated while out in the woods. We removed the thermostat so that we could get home.
I drove around for a long time without it and did notice that it took a long time before the heater would work......
The main reason the thermostat was added to cars was so that the heater and most importantly the defroster will work quickly.
long ago, I had a mini pickup that over heated while out in the woods. We removed the thermostat so that we could get home.
I drove around for a long time without it and did notice that it took a long time before the heater would work......
The thermostat also controls thermal expansion. Engines perform better in a consistent temp range. Engine temp has to reach a predetermined temperature for the computer to go to closed loop operation on EFI vehicles.