Article HID Install with Time Delay Relay

[gepol]

Where I was confused is part 3 where you said the L is connected to the Red/Black which is connected to the lights. The Red/Black however doesn't go to the lights. It goes back to the + on the battery. It is the hot side of the switch. With it wired like that I don't see how you would get a delay with the headlights. So maybe it is hooked up to the Blue/white and you just mistyped that part.

It was the only diagram from their site that I could make it work...


....where it shows that the L goes to the head lights.

 

[sennister]

Hey George.

That is the diagram I used but it is very generic showing things that we don't have.

Now you are right L goes to the headlights. The problem is that the Red/Black wire doesn't go to the headlights. It goes back to the + side of the battery eventually. The wire that goes to the lights is the Blue/White which is why I was I am confused. It seems like you have two Red/Black wires and I don't know where you found the other one.

Basically you have to cut the Red/Black wire and the Blue/White wire. Then you just leave them hang on the side that goes to the starter switch. Those are not used. This is done to isolate the starter interrupt switch. You take the wires on the bike side and run the Red/Black to the 1 and +12 as these are a switched power source. The Blue/White goes to the L. This is where the load is output. Then hook up a ground wire to the G.

 

[Throttlejockey]

Just got done mounting mine and it works great. Mine is a TDR-PS though, there is only one screw to adjust. I didn't see the TDR-P listed.

Here's where I mounted it. I also made a gasket for the back out of some drawer liner material.

 

[gepol]

Hey George.

That is the diagram I used but it is very generic showing things that we don't have.

Now you are right L goes to the headlights. The problem is that the Red/Black wire doesn't go to the headlights. It goes back to the + side of the battery eventually. The wire that goes to the lights is the Blue/White which is why I was I am confused. It seems like you have two Red/Black wires and I don't know where you found the other one.

Basically you have to cut the Red/Black wire and the Blue/White wire. Then you just leave them hang on the side that goes to the starter switch. Those are not used. This is done to isolate the starter interrupt switch. You take the wires on the bike side and run the Red/Black to the 1 and +12 as these are a switched power source. The Blue/White goes to the L. This is where the load is output. Then hook up a ground wire to the G.

No, you got me wrong I am having a bit of difficulty of expressing my self correctly, since English is not my mother tongue. (sorry

What I did is almost as what you did in the first post.

1. I cut the Black/Red and Blue/White wires as per your post.

2. To the side of the plug (to the left, as per your photo) I connected the the Black/Red to the 1 and +12 of the TDR(after making a 2 lead cable as per your photo)

3. To the side of the plug (to the left, as per your photo) I connected the Blue/White to the G of the TDR.

4. To the other side of the cut wires (the side that goes to the front of the bike, to the right as per your photo) I connected the Black/Red wire to the L of the TDR.

5. To the other side of the cut wires (the side that goes to the front of the bike, to the right as per your photo) I connected the Blue/White wire to the G (2 wires now on the G) of the TDR.

Maybe this picture gives you a better idea of what I have done



I have not used the SPDT switch as yet, I am just trying to see how to make the TDR work correctly. Also I am not sure that the 9Amps load from the Halogens is so hugely different from the 6 Amps load of the HID's and the TDR will also get heated. I still think I am connecting something wrongly.

As you have previously said the TDR works as a normal relay. Do you know what is the relation between the numbers found on a normal relay (30,85 etc) to the ones on the TDR?

I am also thinking, that if the heat problem continues, to use the TDR to trigger another normal relay. You think this is correct?

 

[sennister]

Just got done mounting mine and it works great. Mine is a TDR-PS though, there is only one screw to adjust. I didn't see the TDR-P listed.

Here's where I mounted it. I also made a gasket for the back out of some drawer liner material.

If you look at the TDR you will see that the PS is hand written. Mine said P yours PS. From what I know about the product it just means Positive Switching and the P and PS are the same it is just if he put an S after the P or not.

Glad it worked for you. Another tip if you would like, the blade style connectors are made with a heat shrink material so you could heat them with a heat gun or torch and tighten the insulation around the connector. I don't know if it helps anything but I did it.

How long of a delay did you go with?

 

[Throttlejockey]

If you look at the TDR you will see that the PS is hand written. Mine said P yours PS. From what I know about the product it just means Positive Switching and the P and PS are the same it is just if he put an S after the P or not.

Glad it worked for you. Another tip if you would like, the blade style connectors are made with a heat shrink material so you could heat them with a heat gun or torch and tighten the insulation around the connector. I don't know if it helps anything but I did it.

How long of a delay did you go with?

I went with a 15 second delay for now. I may extend it depending on how it works out. The insulated terminals I have are already heat shrunk. I know because I tried to get one of the terminals out of the insulation.

My TDR is definitely different than yours. I only have one adjuster screw for the delay on. There is no other screw for delay off.

 

[sennister]

No, you got me wrong I am having a bit of difficulty of expressing my self correctly, since English is not my mother tongue. (sorry

What I did is almost as what you did in the first post.

1. I cut the Black/Red and Blue/White wires as per your post.

2. To the side of the plug (to the left, as per your photo) I connected the the Black/Red to the 1 and +12 of the TDR(after making a 2 lead cable as per your photo)

3. To the side of the plug (to the left, as per your photo) I connected the Blue/White to the G of the TDR.

4. To the other side of the cut wires (the side that goes to the front of the bike, to the right as per your photo) I connected the Black/Red wire to the L of the TDR.

5. To the other side of the cut wires (the side that goes to the front of the bike, to the right as per your photo) I connected the Blue/White wire to the G (2 wires now on the G) of the TDR.

Maybe this picture gives you a better idea of what I have done



I have not used the SPDT switch as yet, I am just trying to see how to make the TDR work correctly. Also I am not sure that the 9Amps load from the Halogens is so hugely different from the 6 Amps load of the HID's and the TDR will also get heated. I still think I am connecting something wrongly.

As you have previously said the TDR works as a normal relay. Do you know what is the relation between the numbers found on a normal relay (30,85 etc) to the ones on the TDR?

I am also thinking, that if the heat problem continues, to use the TDR to trigger another normal relay. You think this is correct?

I figured your native language wasn't English and was going to mention that you are doing pretty well.

Anyhow that drawing helps a lot. I need to go back and modify the directions. I have been talking with another member here via PM that was also a little confused around the same thing.

Where part of your problem is has to do with the fact that I failed to mention that the wires going toward the front of the bike (they actually don't go to the front of the bike) should be left. I wasn't very clear on where these wires go. They actually go to the right switch pod to the starter switch. The Red/Black and Blue/White wires are kind of the same. What happens is that electricity flows down the Red/Black wire to the starter switch in the right switch pod. From there it comes out of the starter switch as the Blue/White wire and flows down back to the connector and into the main bike harness and eventually to the headlights through another path. The way the lights work by default is when you switch on the ignition power flows to the starer switch via the Red/Black wire and when the starter button isn't pressed the power is allowed to flow back through the Blue/White wire. When you press the starter button this breaks that connection and the lights go out as long as you are holding the starter.

When we do this install we want to take the stater interrupt out of play. So we cut the red black wires. Because we don't want the interrupt in the mix we will leave these wires hang. This is the part that another member was confused about so I will go back and edit the directions to mention that these wires are no longer used. They are available for other uses if you want but I didn't use them. I cut these wires here at the connector rather than inside the right switch pod because it is kind of hard to get in there to run new wires or make modifications.

So on to your diagram. It did help me understand what you did when you wired it up and you have some changes to make.

So disconnect (cut) the wires (Red/Black and Blue/White) that go toward the front of the bike. Remember they are not going to the lights but if you were to trace the harness you would see it goes to the right switch pod.

Of the remaining wires you need to take the Blue/White wire and move it from the G connection and move it to the L connection. The Blue/White wire on the plug side (toward the back of the bike) actually is what is going to the headlights, so this is where they load needs to go. Then you should run a dedicated wire from G to Ground. Either ground it to the frame somewhere or better yet run it back to the battery. Wherever you can get a good ground. When you do the HID install you need a good ground anyhow so I would run a wire to the (-) terminal on the battery and leave some extra wire so it reaches up into the headlight area as the ground on the HID kit isn't very long. If you mount the TDR in the front of the bike it will pass within reach.

You asked for a translation as to how the TDR outputs would be like that of a traditional relay.

1 = Pin 85
2 = (this is for neg switching and not part of a relay)
+12 = Pin 30
L = Pin 87
G = Pin 86

Could you use the TDR to trigger a relay to operate the lights. Sure. It would be a little complex to make but anything could be done. Let me know if you want me to draw up something for you. I would have to think about it for a minute but no reason it can't be done. I would start by wiring it right and check the stock fuse on for the headlights. I don't remember how big it is. If it is bigger than 10 amps (it may be) then I would say you need to do another relay or just use the manual switch until you get the HID kit in.

Let me know if you have more questions or want me to draw up a design with another relay.

 

[sennister]

I went with a 15 second delay for now. I may extend it depending on how it works out. The insulated terminals I have are already heat shrunk. I know because I tried to get one of the terminals out of the insulation.

My TDR is definitely different than yours. I only have one adjuster screw for the delay on. There is no other screw for delay off.

Hmm. Actually I was expecting a relay like what you got with only a time on delay not both. I ordered it from the link that I posted in the directions. Maybe he shipped me the wrong one. I am not sure. Either way it will work because we want a power on delay not a power off delay. When I got the one with both on and off delays I figured maybe he includes both. I guess it is possible that he didn't have any on hand with just the power on delay so he substituted the one that I got as it did what I needed so he could get it out to me. I just assumed that they were all the same.

 

[SteveST1300]

George good luck with your install I am the other member Dave was helping I was hung up on what to do with the forward side of the red/black and blue/white wires. Dave got me on the right track I should have them up and running later today just have to wait for the garage to warm up a bit.

 

[sennister]

George good luck with your install I am the other member Dave was helping I was hung up on what to do with the forward side of the red/black and blue/white wires. Dave got me on the right track I should have them up and running later today just have to wait for the garage to warm up a bit.

Yeah, I went back and added a note that these wires are not used. I can see where it was a little confusing. In one of the photos you can see where I stripped the wires and it looked like I was going to use them for something, which I was. I just didn't show what I did with them as they are bing used for heated grips so they are unrelated to this project.

I had also mentioned that I used the Blue/White wire on the ground as a test. The more I think about this, I wouldn't do that. Run a dedicated ground. You need to do this anyhow for the HIDs so just tap into that for the ground as I did.

 

[gepol]

@ ThrottleJockey

I got the same part as you. What we have is the TDR-PS instead of the TDR-P(that Dave has) which looking at Wolstentech's site is used for other applications.

@ sennister

I can't thank you enough Dave for all the effort and info :bow1:. As to the next relay, I am going to need that if I finally decide not to use the HID kit, and if the TDR cannot withstand the load of the Hallogens.

I will do try to do it in couple of hours and report back.

@SteveST1300

Thanks man, I will wait for your report too

 

[sennister]

I checked the fuse size for the headlights and they are 10 Amp. This is at least on the US version of the 1300. I don't know if the European version is the same. Another thing I should mention is that the European version of the 1300 may be different in other ways. Some I know have a manual headlight switch. Does yours?

 

[gepol]

No, there is no manual headlight switch and I think that manual headlight switch was produced in older models and for some specified markets. I believe tha European and US models are the same in the electric/electronic part.

 

[gepol]

It worked fine. I left the lights on for 5-7 mins, the TDR as cold as ice, it seems it can withstand the load just fine. I set it for 10 secs and will see during use if it's OK for me.

Thanks again Dave

 

[sennister]

No, there is no manual headlight switch and I think that manual headlight switch was produced in older models and for some specified markets. I believe tha European and US models are the same in the electric/electronic part.

I know that some of the earlier 1300s and I think all 1100s in the UK have the manual switch.

If you go here there are examples of the wiring diagrams for the 1300 (US standard and ABS as well as European). I just haven't examined them to see how they differ. I have read that the newer 1300s now have an automatic headlight like we have always had in the US.

 

[sennister]

It worked fine. I left the lights on for 5-7 mins, the TDR as cold as ice, it seems it can withstand the load just fine. I set it for 10 secs and will see during use if it's OK for me.

Thanks again Dave

Glad it is working for you. I think I have a 30 second delay and might bump it out a little more. Typically the bike fires right up the first time unless it has been sitting a long time but I figure a little more time won't hurt if it doesn't fire right away. Besides, I fire the bike and let it warm up for a bit while I get all my gear on so even a 45 second to 1 minute delay would be fine. It doesn't take that long for HIDs to warm to full output and while you are on halogen you don't have to worry about the delay. If I were you I would not seal the back of the TDR. Maybe see what you can come up with the water proof it a little better. Inside a bag or something. Once you convert to HID you can seal up the back of the TDR. I would be concerned about heat if you did it while on Halogen.

Anyhow, glad it is working out for you. With feedback from you and others I have tweaked the article a little so it is a little more clear.

 

[gepol]

I have finished the installation of the electrics and now I just need to reinstall the tupperware. I did not seal the TDR, and I am not planning to. I like to keep my options open on the delay time. What I did is cut a piece of rubber(soft one) to the exact shape of the TDR, and screwed it on the outside part of the right hand pocket as per the photos below.



Sorry for the quality of the pics, they were taken on the iphone..

 

[sennister]

That looks pretty good.

 

[SteveST1300]

Well after a couple of phone calls to Dave and much thinking I still do not have mine working. I will get back to it tonight after work. I know it is just something I did wrong witht the wiring. First thing I am going to try is moving the ground. I used the frame I will run it back to te battery. If that isn't it I will start over.

 

[SteveST1300]

Doh I just went back to Dave's instructions and looked at the schematic he drew. I saw my mistake. I will let you know later I am so challenged with this type of stuff I overcomplicate things. Couls someone smack me on the back of ther head!