Honda ST1300 Speed Wobbles / Weaving?

Stylo Steve

Stylo Steve

Joined
May 23, 2019
Messages
257
Age
54
Location
Casa Grande Arizona
Bike
Yamaha Tracer 900 GT
I am currently riding a restored 95 ST1100 and have decided to give this one to my son and purchase a Honda ST1300. Is there any truth to the issue of wobbles or weaving? if so what speeds does this happen and why? I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this issue.
 
Read up on that subject by searching wobble or weave. Lots of input. It appears when the bike isn't tuned properly in the suspension..... Or overloaded.
ToddC
 
Stylo Steve said:
I am currently riding a restored 95 ST1100 and have decided to give this one to my son and purchase a Honda ST1300. Is there any truth to the issue of wobbles or weaving? if so what speeds does this happen and why? I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this issue.
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I get the wobble, but at appr. 115mph.
I nolonger travel at those speeds so it's not important to me.
YMMV
 
Also, the weaving didn't start until ~120-130 mph
 
There are truths, but I have a simple experiment: lower the rear suspension a bit, which alters the steering geometry in the more-stable direction.
 
Stylo Steve said:
I am currently riding a restored 95 ST1100 and have decided to give this one to my son and purchase a Honda ST1300. Is there any truth to the issue of wobbles or weaving? if so what speeds does this happen and why? I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this issue.
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SS, the problem was and is real, wobble or weave is no fun. Wobble is the low speed version when the bars flap about and weave occurs at high speed and it will feel like Honda fitted a hinge in the middle. Later bikes seem better and if you PM John Heath of this parish he may put you straight on dates etc. I think post 2008 bikes are better sorted but I could be wrong. Weave will not be an issue at speed up to around 100 mph but can be exacerbated by worn tyres, bearings, road conditions, tyre pressures etc.
Search on you tube for the Murray walker and Dunlop video on the subject.
Good luck.
Upt'North.
 
As a slight aside, most if not all bikes wobble and weave.
The ST1100 does too.
I once picked up a brand new ST11 on Dunlops and you couldn't keep it in one lane at 85 plus.
Next day it was fitted with Bridgestones and was steady to 120 plus.
Strange things bikes.
Upt'North.
 
I had three ST1300s (2007, 2008, 2010) ridden aggregately over 240k miles. All of my wobble experiences, except one, were due to tire wear over time. Changing air pressures due to rider laziness and changing elevations, weight load distribution being carried, road types and how those factors affected varying brands of tires all contribute to uneven tire wear which at varying higher speeds resulted in "the wobble." It never occurred with new tires and when experienced . . . went away when the tires were replaced.

My only exception to this was the 2010 which at 99k+ miles wobbled at about 75-80mph on I-10 in harmony with the specific stretch of road due to . . . the original rear shock only functioning at about 10%. I've learned a lot about shocks since then.

Just my experience and 2 cents, FWIW,
Shuey
 
They can weave at speed but at triple digit speeds and even then when the weave manifests it does not suddenly turn into an uncontrollable oscillation. The weave (if and that is a big if you ever experience it, not all 1300s do it and it depends largely on motorcycle condition and load configuration) starts slowly and increases in magnitude only as speed increases. A prudent rider slows from 120-125 mph to 110 mph and carries on.
 
Thank you all for your input. all very good information on helping me make a decision whether to purchase an ST1300 or move onto a Kawasaki Concourse 1400 or BMW K1300GT. I would prefer an ST1300 from the reliability standpoint of things.
 
The 1300 is not as stable when approaching trucks on the interstate. It will wiggle some in the turbulence. You eventually get used to it. My 1100 was rock solid in the wake of tractor trailers.
 
I would go for 2006 models and later. 2008 and later models have further improvements which are worth having.
From what I can gather just from observations, some 2004 models had the new style of swing arm mount, some didn't.

st11ray said:
The 1300 is not as stable when approaching trucks on the interstate. It will wiggle some in the turbulence. You eventually get used to it. My 1100 was rock solid in the wake of tractor trailers.
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That I find to be manageable on the 1300 - I think it is, as you say, getting used to it. I found the 1100 much caught cross winds much more than the 1300. I had 2 ST1100s for 120,000 miles and never really got used to that. It has never been an issue on the 1300.
 
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jfheath said:
I would go for 2006 models and later. 2008 and later models have further improvements which are worth having.
From what I can gather just from observations, some 2004 models had the new style of swing arm mount, some didn't.
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To be clear to the OP and others reading this thread, ST1300s sold in the USA all have the same parts in the swing arm from 2004 models to 2012 models. The 2003 right hand swing arm pivot bolt was revised in 2003 part diagrams but the revision was not a different part number. The ST1300 was released for sale in the UK and EC as a 2002 model and that model was recalled summer 2002 as Honda worked out a revision including retorqueing the torque engine mounting bolts and reportedly to the swing arm pivot bolt torque values. The ST did not import into the USA until mid 2003 after the revisions went into production models.

I think John was speaking to other revisions including heat shields, the ECU, and the front brake caliper.
 
Not mentioned yet, but police forces in the UK stopped using all 1300's when the first police model issued killed one officer because of the wobble. Maybe Up't can elaborate on what happened to the police bikes after that.
 
Bush said:
Not mentioned yet, but police forces in the UK stopped using all 1300's when the first police model issued killed one officer because of the wobble. Maybe Up't can elaborate on what happened to the police bikes after that.
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They sent them back to Honda. After sitting around getting dusty for ages. Interestingly the same thing happened to the K100RT and they sat undercover awaiting collection from BMW. Now they were scary when they got out of shape. I don't think anyone ever comments on their similar issues though.
The coroners decision was pretty damning on the ST13. I can't remember the exact details but it's well documented online.
That's when the RT pretty much captured the UK and EU market.
Upt'North.
 
PC David Shreeve (above right) was crushed to death under a lorry after falling from his Honda on the M58 in Lancashire.

An April 2007 inquest into the death of the dad-of-two found that the bike began shaking violently at high speed - rendering it uncontrollable.

The motorcycle also exhibited the same 'high speed weave' difficulty during a later training check - causing an examiner to be flung from the vehicle, breaking his leg and fracturing both wrists.

Coroner Dr James Adeley said that the bike posed a "serious and continued" threat to police officers' lives.

He wrote to all chief constables and recommended that it should not be used in excess of 80mph for fear of a "catastrophic result". The bikes were removed after recommendations by the Association of Chief Police Officers.

But the inquest also heard that the high speed weave problem only affected the police version of the Honda, due to the fitting of an extra kit, affecting its centre of gravity.

A police spokeswoman told Sunday Life last week:"The motorcycles are now in the possession of the PSNI and have not been crushed. These bikes have been permanently suspended."

A Honda UK spokesman said: "In our opinion, the machines are fit for purpose. But we respect both the coroner's decision and the Association of Police Officers' decision to withdraw the machines."
Upt'North.
 
dduelin said:
I think John was speaking to other revisions including heat shields, the ECU, and the front brake caliper.
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Partly. You have filled in the detail @dduelin about the mountings - thank you. You can get a good idea by looking at the swing arm pivot bolts. Although the shop manual addendum for the Uk is aimed at 2002 and 2003 models, and implies 2004 all have the new hardware. However, I have seen 2004 models over here with the earlier setup. ( And they were the 2004 model with the ST1300 A4 label and the correct colour red for that year, rather than just being 2004 registered) . So I am unclear about what happened and when. Hence my suggestion of going for 2006 and later. There was no 2005 model in the Uk.
 
Bush said:
Not mentioned yet, but police forces in the UK stopped using all 1300's when the first police model issued killed one officer because of the wobble. Maybe Up't can elaborate on what happened to the police bikes after that.
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The Coroner's Report was written by a Dr. and not a vetted accident investigator. After his report some UK forces immediately pulled ST1300 police models from service but not all did and the bike continued to serve for many years with police forces on both sides of the Atlantic. I believe that today the good doctor's report would be called fake news. RIP Officer Shreeve
 
jfheath said:
Partly. You have filled in the detail @dduelin about the mountings - thank you. You can get a good idea by looking at the swing arm pivot bolts. Although the shop manual addendum for the Uk is aimed at 2002 and 2003 models, and implies 2004 all have the new hardware. However, I have seen 2004 models over here with the earlier setup. ( And they were the 2004 model with the ST1300 A4 label and the correct colour red for that year, rather than just being 2004 registered) . So I am unclear about what happened and when. Hence my suggestion of going for 2006 and later. There was no 2005 model in the Uk.
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The OP is in the USA and the parts diagrams for all US model years tells the tale. I won't comment on UK bikes.
 
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