Hondaline heated grips trouble shooting

KCC

Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
16
Location
Helena, MT
Hi folks, haven't posted on the forum for quite a while; nothing ever breaks on my '03 ST13. Just ride it and change the oil, right? It's a Honda.

But.... I've lately been having intermittent loss of heat from the heated grips. They are Honda's (HondaLine) grip kit and were installed a few years ago by the local Honda dealership.

Have checked the most accessible connections at the bullet style connectors running along the handle bars, and can find no obvious problem.

Reading the posts on heated grip failure leads me to believe the heated grips may be a problem for more than a few of us.

So thought I'd ask for some tips on what common problems the membership has found with the heated grips, and where to go next in troubleshooting the loss of power to the grips.

One thought I've had is that the battery is the original OEM, and after 9 years of service it may be time to replace it. I'm aware of the grip controller load shedding function if battery voltage drops beyond a certain threshold.

Have no problems with cranking/starting the engine, and I see about 14.1 volts with the grips on and engine running at idle. I will check the cranking voltage to see if under load the battery voltage drops below 10.1 as suggested in one of the posts on batteries. Probably time to replace the battery anyway, just for peace of mind reasons if nothing else.

Am going to stop by the dealership today to see if they have any experieince with grip heat failure.

Thanks for the help.
 
You probably have a grip on its way out. They're wired in series, so if one goes, the other does, too. (Search for "heated grip failure" and you'll find several threads about it.)

Rumor his it that dealers can order the individual grips as a replacement part so you don't have to replace the entire set.

--Mark
 
Thanks, Mark. That's going to be one of my first checks; to see if I have continuity through the grips, will disconnect the bullet connectors located along the handlebars and see if current flows thorough the grips. Suspect if it is a bad grip it is probably the throttle side since it is always moving when riding the motorcycle.
 
The only issue I ever had was the wire connecting the two grips in series got pinched & damaged. I did my own continuity check using the wiring schematic to find that problem, then I merely replaced the wire.
 
Thanks for the heads up. Do you recall where it was pinched? I'll pay particular attention to that spot when I check that all the wires are still keeping the smoke in 'em.
 
KCC said:
Do you recall where it was pinched?
Click to expand...
No, because once I identified the problem, I wanted to affect a quick fix without removing the Tupperware. I installed a "jumper wire" until I had the plastics off at a later date. When I did finally get around to removing Tupperware to install my cruise control, I removed the original faulty wire without looking for where it failed.
 
I don't remember the amp draw on these. Putting an ammeter in the circuit and then wiggling the wires might produce an answer to the problem. Current drops to 0 as soon as an open is detected. Most any multimeter will handle 10 amps, some will do 15.

Tom
 
Thanks, that tells me it was accessible without pulling all the bodywork, must have been pinched somewhere between the grips and near the bullet style connectors where the wires disappear under the fairing pocket/bodywork. I'll look for a fault in that area. Checked the voltage drop on starting today and the voltage drops to 10.5 when cranking the engine. Am seeing 14.2 volts at idle with grips on high and high beams on. Of course the grips worked fine while I was checking them with the motorcycle stationary, gotta love these intermittent failures. I did wiggle and pull on the exposed wires accessible between the grips and the connectors and where the wires disappear. No luck. Next step is checking continuity through the grips, then pulling plastic to check for current all the way through the system.

Had another thought, the 5 (?) amp fuse just may be making poor contact in its 'mount', maybe thats whats causing the intermittent failure when riding the motorcycle; can't seem, yet, to make the grips fail with the motorcycle stationary. Will check the fuse contacts to see if that might be the problem. Of course that requires pulling the plastic, grrr. Anyone had poor contacts at the fuse as a cause of intermiitent failure?
 
Thanks, Tom, was going to use the continuity function of the multimeter, but just may try the amps method too. Good thing winter is just about here in Montana, gives me an excuse to spend hours in the garage since winter is not the best time of the year here for two wheels.
 
10.5 volts when cranking doesn't sound like a battery issue and with the alternator running at speed the load shedding shouldn't come into play.
Doesn't the controller blink or something when it see a low voltage anyway?

If it was the fuse pulling it and reinserting would probably fix it unless it was pretty corroded.
Intermittants can be a pita. Don't overlook a crimp lug going bad including the supply side of the controller.
My local "service" station replaced a battery lug on my truck and didn't get it right. Lights on all is well turn the key to engage the starter and everything went and stayed dark. 10 minutes later lights back on and the same thing.

iirc grips are about 3amps.
 
Thanks, Carl, I checked the installation instructions that came with the grip kit and it says the LED lights in the switch may sometimes flash when the engine is started and that this is normal. Also have noticed that when stopping the engine, with the engine cut-off switch, that the LEDs flash and then extinguish. The flashing must indicate an undervoltage situation, which probably does occur on voltage drop at start up and shutdown. Am unable to find any reference in the instructions as to what voltage is considered to be undervoltage by the contoller, however.

Also, was giving some more thought to the fuse contact idea. I think I had the, ah, dumb light lit on that idea, as the LEDs are still illuminated in the controller when the grip heat fails. Since the lights are still illuminated in the controller, I can assume the fuse is still flowing current, or the lights would not be on with no power to the controller. Still looking like I get to pull the plastic off and check connections, etc. Oh well, am about due for a coolant change anyway.

Oh yeah, the dealer troubleshooting chart in the installation instructions says to check for resisitance between the grip heater wire teminals. Says you should see 2.2 ohms +/- 10%.
 
Don't forget that the Honda heated grips do not operate when the bike's engine is running at "normal" idle. Only when the RPMs rise is power transferred to the heating elements. Fast idle during initial start-up/wram-up will light the LEDs until the RPMs drop to "normal" idle, then the LEDs (and grips) turn off.
 
Thanks, didn't know that, and don't think I have noticed the LEDs turning off at normal idle. I'll start the motorycle and pay attention to that.
 
Just started the engine, turned the grips on, let the engine warm to the normal three bars, shut the engine off with the engine cut-off switch. The LEDs stayed lit until about 12.4 volts at the battery, at whuch point they extinguished. Restarted the engine, LEDs illuminated to the previous setting after engine start. LEDs remain lit at normal idle speed, approx 1100rpm.

Even thought the LEDs were lit, this time the grips were cold; last time I ran the engine (yesterday), at idle, as well as higher rpm, they were warm at all heat settings. Geez I love these intermittent electrical gremlins.

Guess it's time to bite the bullet, start pulling plastic off the motorcycle, and trace current flow/continuity. As John Wayne used to say: "This is startin' to irritate me".

Any more ideas will be appreciated. Will let the forum know what I find when done troubleshooting.
 
Oh yeah, forgot to mention in the last post; at idle, 1100rpm, engine warm, I see 14.2 volts at the battery. Should be enough voltage to keep power to the grips, I would think, since on engine shutdown (using engine cut-off switch, ignition still on) the LEDs don't go out until battery voltage drops to about 12.4 volts.
 
UPDATE to Hondaline heated grips troubleshooting (from 11-12-11)

Hi folks, here's an update on the heated grips troubleshooting process.

After removing the throttle side grip, the one that was intermittent, I started to look for the cause of the open circuit. Connected leads from the volt-ohm meter, on continuity check function, to the leads from the grips. Found that twisting the grip in my hands would cause the continuity to come and go. Seemed the open circuit was near the inboard flange of the grip. Peeled/rolled the grip flange back a bit, and found what appeared to be a poor/cold solder connection at one of the 'terminals', for lack of a better term for where the wires inside the grips are connected. Aha! Thought I had found the culprit.

Took the grip to a guy here in town who enjoys doing small, intircate solder jobs, such as on printed circuit boards. He re-soldered the connection, I checked for continuity, and found current would flow through the grips. Problem solved. I thought. Put the grip back on the handlebar, started the motorcycle, and had heat. Allright! Rolled the throttle on and off a few times, and hmm..., the grip seemed to be cooling off a bit. Checked for continuity through the grip leads again and found an open circuit.

Took the grip back to the guy who soldered it for me and we checked the solder joint. It looked good, but was re-soldered again anyway. We then checked for continuity through the grips and found we could cause an open circuit by twisting the grip one way or the other while holding one end stationary.

So.... I concluded that the open circuit was probably in one of the heating elements molded into the grip. Virtually impossible to repair.

Checked with Honda; nope, heated grips are no longer available. Checked with David Silver Spares in England; nope, heated grips are no longer available. Figured that Honda is fairly smart, they want their products to be dependable, and there's probably a reason they discontinued them.

Started looking for replacement grips. Decided on Hot Grips, through AeroStitch.

My ST13 has a Throttle Meister throttle lock installed. The Throttle Meister kit I used with the Hondaline grips has components designed specificaly for those grips, not the Hot Grips.

Took a few phone calls to Hot Grips, and AeroStitch to get the right grip length, and proper open-end size. The Hot Grips, Model 525-875, is too long, at 5 1/4". The Hot Grips Model 475-875, at 4 3/4", is shorter than the Hondaline grips (which are 5", or maybe 5 1/16"), but is more expensive on their website than the AeroStitch Hot grips #1891.

Looking at the Aerostitch website, it looks as though the outboard end of the grip
(#1891) is smaller than the 7/8" and 1" (left and right) needed for the open end of the grips to enable installation of the Throttle Meister. Checked with AeroStitch and they measured the open end(s) at 7/16". That's OK for standard bar end weights, but not for Throttle Meister use. They did say that they could get them enlarged by Hot Grips to the required 7/8" left, and 1" right. I called Hot Grips and was told they already ship the 7/8"/1" open-end grips to Aerostitch. They said their correct model number is 475-876. Called AeroStitch back, they looked for the 475-876, and sure enough, had the 475-876 in stock. That part number grip is shipped to them drilled out at the ends to 7/8" left, and 1" right. Should work with the Throttle Meister installed.

Have not yet installed the new grips. Am waiting on a modified "friction sleeve" from Throttle Meister that I will install on the end of the throttle tube, between the outboard end of the right grip and the "bronze piston" in the throttle lock. The "friction sleeve" will give the "bronze piston" better friction characteristics than if it applied force directly to the end of the grip/throttle tube. The "friction sleeve" will also help take up some of the gap between the inboard end of the grip and the switch housing, that would be caused by the reduced length of the new grip (4 3/4" vs stock 5" - 5 1/16").

Have to say that the folks at Hot Grips, AeroStitch, and, especially, Marker Machine (Throttle Meister) have been exceptionally helpful in helping me with this process.

Will let the group know more after I get the whole thing put back together. Hopefully the smoke stays inside the wires when I'm done. And I have warm grips again. Good thing it's not riding weather here in Montana, (minus 8f this morning on my deck).
 
Re: UPDATE to Hondaline heated grips troubleshooting (from 11-12-11)

Here's an interim update on the progress.

I got the cut down "friction sleeve", it fits nicely over the end of the throttle tube, should work well with the Throttle Meister.

Attached an auxillary 12 volt battery to the hot grips (AeroStitch) and saw 125 degress in short order (measured with an infrared thermometer).

Attached bullet-style connectors to the wires from the heated grips. Plugged them into the existing Honda wiring from the Hondaline grips. Started the engine, 14.2 volts at idle, selected the low position, one LED illuminated, on the Hondaline temp controller. Didn't feel a lot of heat so selected high, four LEDs lit. Noticed the grips sure didn't get warm as fast as the Hondaline grips. Nor did they get as warm. After 10-15 minutes of idling the engine, grips on high, I checked the grip temperature with an infrared thermometer. 89-90 degrees. Hmm... Looks like the new hot grips won't work with the existing Hondaline controller and wiring, since with the grips connected directly to an external 12 volt power source (12.8 volts) they got much warmer, much quicker, 89-90 degress vs 125-130 degrees with the battery connected directly.

So, next step is to wire the grips directly to the m/c battery using the supplied high/low toggle switch, and the supplied resisitor used for the low temp setting. Was hoping I could use the Hondaline controller, much cleaner installation than drilling a hole and putting the toggle switch in the fairing somewhere.

More later when I get it all put together and tested.
 
Re: UPDATE to Hondaline heated grips troubleshooting (from 11-12-11)

KCC said:
Was hoping I could use the Hondaline controller, much cleaner installation than drilling a hole and putting the toggle switch in the fairing somewhere.
Click to expand...

Your Hot Grips are designed to run as a parallel circuit, that's why when you used an auxiliary power source the grip heated up just as you expected. The OEM Honda heated grips are designed to run as a series circuit, that's why when you inserted the Hot Grips into the existing Honda wiring they performed poorly.

Take another look at this earlier post... Nevermind, here's the link, this drawing indicates how to install parallel circuit style heated grips with the OEM Honda controller.

Give it a shot, no holes to drill, and I think you'll be pleased with the results.
 
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