Idle adjustment cable

[Bmacleod]

I have to say this. In the past when people have talked of a lock on their idle adjustment knob, I have scratched my head, so to speak. My adjuster has no lock, just turn the knob right or left. I could be completely wrong, but I feel there may be some others who have the same setup, judging by some responses or lack thereof. I havent started pulling my bodywork for winter maintenance/playing, but I am interested in looking closer at this. Have others found no lock to their adjuster??

 

[Fawlty]

I have to say this. In the past when people have talked of a lock on their idle adjustment knob, I have scratched my head, so to speak. My adjuster has no lock, just turn the knob right or left. I could be completely wrong, but I feel there may be some others who have the same setup, judging by some responses or lack thereof. I havent started pulling my bodywork for winter maintenance/playing, but I am interested in looking closer at this. Have others found no lock to their adjuster??

My adjuster doesn't pull in or out either. 2002 model. I cannot find any reference to it doing so in the 2003 Honda service manual.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

It has been clearly shown that this adjuster cable does not have a locking feature of any kind, other than the anti-rotation springs, on this forum. This belief started because of a several posts that referenced a locking feature and how to unlock and lock it back in to place. Stating that there is a locking feature is not what the poster meant and it was due to a poor choice of words. The poster of that comment clarified later on that he did not actually mean lock.

There are several threads/posts/photos on this forum that clearly illustrates that there is no lock, how this cable is made, how it works, and what causes the difficulty in rotating it and how to reduce that resistance.

Anyone who wants to see what this cable looks like, how it works, how it is routed, and how to help it turn a little more easily should have a look through the below. Make sure to follow the links in those posts, especially the ones by @CYYJ for further explanations and photos.

2008 Honda St1300 Dies on Idle , runs Fine | ST1300 Related

Hi all, I have a 2008 Honda St1300. The bike started to die in town at stop lights and struggled with power. I replaced plugs, air filter , fuel pump. Tonight I drove it for about 15km and it was all good until I stopped at home and it died again. If I start it, it starts up, idles a bit...

www.st-owners.com

 

[Bmacleod]

It has been clearly shown that this adjuster cable does not have a locking feature of any kind, other than the anti-rotation springs, on this forum. This belief started because of a several posts that referenced a locking feature and how to unlock and lock it back in to place. Stating that there is a locking feature is not what the poster meant and it was due to a poor choice of words. The poster of that comment clarified later on that he did not actually mean lock.

There are several threads/posts/photos on this forum that clearly illustrates that there is no lock, how this cable is made, how it works, and what causes the difficulty in rotating it and how to reduce that resistance.

Anyone who wants to see what this cable looks like, how it works, how it is routed, and how to help it turn a little more easily should have a look through the below. Make sure to follow the links in those posts, especially the ones by @CYYJ for further explanations and photos.

2008 Honda St1300 Dies on Idle , runs Fine | ST1300 Related

Hi all, I have a 2008 Honda St1300. The bike started to die in town at stop lights and struggled with power. I replaced plugs, air filter , fuel pump. Tonight I drove it for about 15km and it was all good until I stopped at home and it died again. If I start it, it starts up, idles a bit...

www.st-owners.com

Now that makes a lot more sense!
I have seen reference to this locking feature several times over the past couple of years, and for the life of me I could not figure out what was locking where or how to unlock it.
I was beginning to think that I was loosing my mind as I couldn't figure out such a simple thing.

Thank you. I have been wondering, just as you were, what I was missing.

 

[Igofar]

All these conspiracy theories have me
If you folks want to really know why you have trouble with this adjustment look no further, and stop guessing.
The inner cable is in a sheath.
The reason you to press inward with a JIS driver is because you have to move the cable to take tension off of it to be able to turn the Adjuster in or out of the threaded fitting below the spring etc.
***I WAS WRONG IN MY DESCRIPTION ***
The REAL reason it’s often difficult to turn is because the inner cable rusted, and is sticking to the outer sheath.
You can prevent this by using a needle oiler just below the knob and allowing the oil to seep down and penetrate between the metal cable and plastic sheath.
There is absolutely no reason what so ever to attempt to remove the throttle bodies to free this cable up.
You can’t push a rusted cable very easily in a tight plastic sheath.
A picture is worth a thousand words…
But not as much fun as reading all these wild guesses and theories
Hope this helps folks

 

[Igofar]

It’s been a long time since I was that deep in my ST1300 but I think trying to free it with a penetrating lubricant can be done by just removing the air box. If it cannot be freed at that point you are at the point of removing the throttle bodies. The TB will be right there and ready to be removed.

Why would you even suggest removing the throttle bodies to lube or free up this cable?

 

[Igofar]

Used to set base or minimum idle speed, after that the computer takes care of idle speed based on sensor inputs.


Opening the throttles takes the force of the throttle return springs out of the equation, meaning that less force is needed to turn the adjuster because it is no longer pushing against the force of the return spring pressure.

The type of cable that you are thinking of is a flexible cable inside of a sheath. When rotated, the inside flexible cable rotates while the exterior sheath does not.
This is not a flexible cable inside of a sheath. It is a flexible cable that has a protective coating of some kind bonded to the outside of it. The entire thing rotates as one piece as opposed to a cable rotating inside of a sheath. If it can not be rotated, it is because it is binding somewhere along its path, or the adjustment threads at the end of it are seized in their receptacle.
Remove the cause of the binding and/or free up and lubricate the threaded tip so that it can turn freely.

The purpose of the spring is to keep the adjuster threads under constant tension. This is to prevent the adjuster from rotating, due to vibrations, and changing the idle adjustment.
The same principle as the idle mixture and idle speed adjustment screws on carburetors, which also have a spring on them.

With all due respect, while you are correct about the throttle return springs, this cable IS a flexible cable inside a sheath, or a least it should be (inspect a brand new cable).
The cable (metal part) rusts, and then sticks inside the sheath, which is why most folks think its a solid piece.
Truth is, most folks have only probably seen/felt an old/used cable in which to judge their opinions on.
If you look at the pictures I posted at the end of this thread, you can clearly see the inner cable is free to spin INSIDE the sheath, IF Its not rusted and stuck inside the sheath, as most are found.

 

[Igofar]

In picture number #3 you'll notice where the cable has to make a bend downward onto the mounting point, when the inner cable rusts, it becomes stiff and can't be pushed through the sheathing.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I admit that I have never looked closely at this cable to know. I do know when this was being discussed Michael stated that it is not a cable inside a sheath, and that the interior cable can not rotate freely inside the sheath. It is one solid assembly that all turns as one piece.
When he wrote this he had a brand new adjuster cable that he had just received from Honda, so no rust was involved. He wrote that on the new one there is no inner cable that can rotate freely while the outer portion remains stationary- it all rotates together as one solid piece.

You did not disagree with him at the time, but are now writing that it is a cable inside a sheath, so confusion reigns supreme.

When I had my throttle bodies off (the cable is part of the throttle body assembly), I had a really good look at it. I ordered a new adjustment cable, replaced the old one, and took the old one apart. It is a single monolithic assembly, more like a flexible rod than a "cable" - it is not a Bowden cable in which a small cable within a sheath rotates. So it doesn't matter what you twist - the knob, the outside of the cable, or the screw - the whole damn thing turns. That is probably why it is so susceptible to fouling - if anything is pressed up against the side of that cable anywhere along its path, it won't turn.

 

[Bmacleod]

Larry, if you think that cable should turn within that sheath, then where are the ferrules/clamps that should be holding the ends of the sheath, indicating that the cable should turn independently of it. It is what the conspiracy theorists think, a flexible rod with a rubber coating on it. It turns within the white ferrule at the knob. It simply rusted in your pics where the coating ended short.

 

[Igofar]

Larry, if you think that cable should turn within that sheath, then where are the ferrules/clamps that should be holding the ends of the sheath, indicating that the cable should turn independently of it. It is what the conspiracy theorists think, a flexible rod with a rubber coating on it. It turns within the white ferrule at the knob. It simply rusted in your pics where the coating ended short.

Don't believe everything you think (no disrespect intended)
That two inch section at the end, where you can see the cable (inside) was broken off (by me) for inspection.
Showing the cable inside the sheath, and not bonded to it.
And explain why I can unscrew the fitting, and slide the entire length of sheath off the cable?
I also have a new one that is not attached to the lower point, that spins within the cable, so I guess what I'm holding several defective new/used ones.
And I shouldn't believe what I'm holding in my hands, but rather what you say because that is what you believe?

Your missing the point (gist) of the thread....the knob/cable etc. was hard to turn etc.
Its probably because the inner cable is rusted, and simply applying oil may help the OP work his adjuster etc.

 

[Bmacleod]

Oh Brother... (no disrespect intended)
Not missing the point (gist) at all. Just cant comprehend (understand) how you can think that it is vital (important) for the protective covering to spin freely on the rod/cable/tube.
How is the lock working on your cable

 

[dduelin]

Why would you even suggest removing the throttle bodies to lube or free up this cable?

I didn't, the OP did. I suggested it could be freed by simply removing the airbox and that was accompanied by admission that it had been a long time since I had disassembled my ST1300 that far.

 

[Igofar]

Oh Brother... (no disrespect intended)
Not missing the point (gist) at all. Just cant comprehend (understand) how you can think that it is vital (important) for the protective covering to spin freely on the rod/cable/tube.
How is the lock working on your cable

Your missing the point I guess, everyone that has come through that was stiff and hard to turn was fixed and corrected simply by freeing it up with lubricant.
When the cable inside is stiff and rusted, and has taken a bent shape, you will find it difficult to turn.
And my cable is working just fine thank you.

 

[Igofar]

Perhaps it’s the wording causing so many questions.
It is a flexible cable inside a sheath. It does not need to spin inside of the sheath to work, but if the inner cable is rusted (often) then the inner cable will stick to whatever shape the cable is routed in, and be difficult to twist or turn the assembly.
The sheath should be soft and flexible, as well as the cable, if they are fighting against each other they lock up and bind.
This picture shows a simple cable without a sheath.
Now image it rusted and stiff trying to turn with a stiff sheath surrounding it.

 

[Igofar]

SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM
Took a used rusted one last night that the cable was rigid stiff, and the knob adjustment would not turn.
Placed it in a pie pan of evaporust overnight.
Rinsed it off with water, and sprayed it with mmo this morning, and the cable twisted smoothly in either direction.
Problem solved.
You should also be able to lubricate it with a needle oiler and mmo if you don’t have the ability to remove the cable.

 

[Al Gully]

SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM

Darn, I was hoping you were going to say, don’t mess with it.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it..
Here is my history with this cable since buying my first ST in 2009 and my second ST1300 in 2022, I have never touched either one. RPM has never needed to be adjusted.
Why are you guys messing with this cable.
All my vehicles after 1988 the were ALL fuel injected, cars trucks, vans motorcycle’s and have never needed a throttle adjustment.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Larry (@Igofar):
You have played with enough of them, so I'm pretty sure that you know what you are looking at. So it is indeed a Bowden cable then?
i.e. A flexible cable that turns independently of an outer sheath.
If so, then I agree with you, and it is obvious that there is a need for the inner cable to be free to move otherwise it can't do its job.

What is creating the confusion is that Michael (@CYYJ) had a brand new one in his hand and stated that it was not a Bowden cable, but rather one assembly that all turns as one piece. He seemed quite emphatic about that point at the time. The discrepancy between whether it is a Bowden cable or a one piece assembly is what is causing confusion, at least for me, as I am going by what you guys have written. My ST1300 has always purred at 1100 RPM since I have had it. Because of that, I have never even bothered to look closely at this cable because I have never needed to. The next time that I am in there, curiosity now demands that I have a good look for myself I guess.

 

[Igofar]

I think we can finally put this to rest.
I have a solution to repair/correct the rusted inner cable, and some pictures that will show/explain how/why it works and or sticks etc.
As Michael pointed out somewhere in one of his posts, that using a JIS driver to push inward on the adjuster appeared to remove tension allowing it to be moved easier, this could be because the cable is routed up against something causing it to bind.
There is no “lock” as some would think, but a tension spring to keep things in place.
The reason the service manual tells you to use a tool for adjustment is to prevent folks from breaking the thin plastic knob that is shaped around a the long bolt like end of the cable.
As far as the cable goes, several of us were both right and wrong in its design.
I have seen several cables that the sheath was not pushed up on the shaft of the adjuster, so you can see the cable turning independently of the sheath.
I have seen the sheath pushed only on one end of the adjuster appearing to be a solid unit as the sheath turns with the cable etc.
None of its design really matter as far as repairing or make it work again, as I have found an easy way to repair/fit it.
The throttle bodies do not need to be removed, because removing the cable is as simple as lifting the white collar from its bracket and unscrewing the cable from the threaded hole in the bottom of the wax valve assembly.
You do need to have the air box assembly removed to get to this area.
Be sure not to drop the spring or small washer when it comes free.
Then pull one end (spring end is shorter) of the sheath back off the attachment point and soak the cable in evaporust or similar product etc.
Clean, dry off, then soak in mmo then put it back together.
I will try and attach some picture of one I just took apart for your viewing pleasure.
If you want an easier way to keep it rust free, simply cut back about an inch of the sleeve behind the white collar, this should expose about an eighth of an inch of exposed inner cable and provide you with access to use a needle oiler without lifting the tank and air box assembly.
This is how I keep mine well lubricated and rust free.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

A picture is worth a thousand words.
That certainly looks like a Bowden cable to me.