Key broke while inserted in the gas lid

[Savago]

It happened when I was in a gas station about 6 blocks away from home.

Obviously the spare key was at home...but I guess the total near 25 minutes walk was good for my cardio.

Any idea on how to solve this?

 

[ST1100Y]

Dental picks... (or the hook-kit for O-ring removal...)

 

[jfheath]

Well - the key is still in there, so it may well have set the tumblers in the correct position to turn the barrel. That will enable you to remove the filler cap with three of those allen bolts. You may be able to work on it better.
Whatever - this method or tweezer method - Press down on the bit that says 'push to lock' to take the load off the tumblers - the tumbers will need to move easily as you try to lift out the broken piece. (You cannot remove the filler cap surround with the cap locked in position.)

 

[Oldbikefixr]

I've always inspected these keys. Given the length and narrow width, they've always looked to me to be an inconvenient failure point so I periodically check for bending, twisting and stress cracks. I've lost a key in the distant past, and have had to remove broken keys on old bikes I've restored but haven't broken one myself....yet.

 

[jfheath]

I have a couple of steel shaft keys which i/we use for the panniers - that is the place where the ignition key tends to get most damage, as the key has to remain in the lock while you put the luggage in. It only takes a couple of knocks to deform that standard alloy key, after which it's just waiting for the inevitable.

But it took me one broken key and another badly cracked one to realise what was causing it, and how to stop it from happening. All of which is entirely useless info until you have managed to extract the broken bit. In the UK - I found JMA produce the required key HOND-24.P JMA HOND-24.P Plastic Top Key Blank for Honda® - JMA UK (jma-uk.co.uk)

That link also has some cross references to other manufacturer key numbers. Note that if you have HISS, it will not start the bike without a chip being extremely close to it. But I have it just for the luggage / fuel cap.

 

[ST1100Y]

I've always inspected these keys. Given the length and narrow width, they've always looked to me to be an inconvenient failure point so I periodically check for bending, twisting and stress cracks.

Those of my GF's NT700VA are even worse...
The barrel operating the cables for the pannier locks/release is quite heavy to rotate with only the tip(1/3rd) of key shank inserted...
Already replaced a couple, but hard to copy due the length, you'll end up with two out of three actually working in the ignition lock... (swapping the HISS transponder is easy)
Intend to fabricate a short key with a plastic knob JB-welded onto...

 

[ibike2havefun]

Any idea on how to solve this?

I had a similar problem several years back. I solved it by doing this:

remove the filler cap with three of those allen bolts

The filler cap is held by just three of the bolts: the two at the 11:00 and 1:00 positions relative to the flip-up cap, front of the tank, and the one hidden by the key in your photo. The other four are just for show.

You cannot remove the filler cap surround with the cap locked in position.)

I thought I had been able to remove the filler cap with it still locked but I may be mis-remembering. It certainly makes sense as an added security measure, or it'd be child's play to remove the cap and siphon out a tankful of high test.

Anyhow: I think I was able to use a dental pick or similar sharp, stiff, narrow tool to lift the broken stub high enough that I could get a needle-nosed plier on it and extract it. I may have used a very fine drill bit to start a shallow hole in the stub, then driven a small screw into the stub to extract it. Use caution if you go that route: you don't want to screw up the tumblers.

Whatever you eventually succeed in doing, have a look at the condition of the filler cap latch while it's exposed. Make sure there's no burr on it anywhere, nor on the underside of the place where the latch engages. A shot of dry lubricant (powdered teflon or powdered graphite, for example) into the workings of the lock will help keep the tumblers moving freely and easily.

Never use liquid lubricants in a lock! Liquid lubes attract dust, dirt, and grit and eventually make the lock nearly impossible to operate.


Also: since you're Stateside you bike doesn't have the European HISS security chip in it. Take your remaining spare (OEM?) key to a key cutting outfit and get a half dozen more spares cut. The OEM keys are of the softest metal known to man, and (as you've found) break easily. They should really be regarded only as patterns from which better duplicates can be cut. Leave the original in a safe place at home, where you'll never be tempted to use it.

 

[dduelin]

I've never broken a key off in a lock so I have no advice on the repair but as a cautionary tale always press down on the gas lid to unload the strikers when turning the key. The same for panniers - press down on the handles to unload the pannier lock before turning the key. A shot of lock lubricant like Abus Ps88 once in a while doesn't hurt.

 

[SMSW]

After you get the key out (optimistic attitude here), consider replacing the gas cap with a keyless version: (They are available in a bunch of colors - and you can mix and match the surround and the cap).

Fuel Cap Kits by Oberon Performance

motorcycle parts and accessories for race and custom motorbikes by oberon performance uk designed and manufactured

www.oberon-performance.co.uk

A bit pricey, but other vendors sell them and you just might luck out and find one used (like I did).

 

[jfheath]

I thought I had been able to remove the filler cap with it still locked but I may be mis-remembering. It certainly makes sense as an added security measure, or it'd be child's play to remove the cap and siphon out a tankful of high test.

Maybe a UK/USA difference ? Or mis-filed memories. I get a lot of those these days.

Some images below:

The two that look the same - "cap open" and "cap closed" show the two spring loaded catches with the key turned and the key relaxed - respectively. Open shows the latches drawn in towards the centre.

The rubber seal is pressed against the rim of the fuel filler opening and it has (should have) enough bounce to push against the latch. If it doesn't then it doesn't have enough bounce to seal the opening properly.
The latches hook under part of the rim - keeping the rubber pressed against the top of the rim.

On my first 1300, I found that on a hot day, I could not undo the fuel tank . I cured that by removing the cap and filing a very small radius on the top corner edge of the latch on both sides. I also did a tiny bit of gentle levering against the rim under which the latches fit. These were very tiny modification - but given that is seemed to be an expansion issue, that is all that was needed. It has been perfect ever since. But you will see that its not possible to lift the surround without relelasing the latch.

The third photo is an "... and while I am at it ..." illustration of the 3 cap screws and the filler cap removed. The picture is taken at an odd angle - the hole bottom right is at the 6 o'clock position on the tank.​

The big hole lower left of the taped filler opening is the metal water drain hole, which passes through the fuel, inside the tank. It is a good idea to service this and make sure that it is clear. The photo is taken when I was doing just that. Compressed air was about to be applied to the rubber drain hose join at the seat tube under the rider's left thigh. The debris shoots out like a bullet. I clamp the hose and fill the tube with ACF50 and let it soak for a while, then drain it out again. It doesn't stop it getting clogged, but hopefully it stops that metal drain tube rusting through to the fuel.​

 

[maddog13]

I think this is caused by the gas cap being off center a little. Remove it with the three screws two at the top 11:00. 1:00 and one at the bottom 6:00. These screws are very small so use a light touch.
Run a file over the latches to make sure they are smooth and burr free. When you replace it make sure it is centered on the filler hole. Don't over tighten the screws it won't take much to break one.

 

[naedlaen]

Looking at jfheath's photos, do not the latched engage on the tank net and not the outer bezel? Would not the mean that the cap is locked to the tank? I agree that the cap needs to be open in order to remove the unit. Try turning it with a small screwdriver in order to open it. Or use picks to remove it.

Neal

 

[Igofar]

As I warned you when I lived in San Jose, don’t use the OEM Honda keys because they bend and crack, and break off in the ignition, gas cap, and saddlebag locks.
This is very common!
To avoid this, use a replacement key, keep a spare on the bike somewhere, keep the locks clean and lubricated, and press down on the gas cap, or saddlebag latch as you turn the key, to remove pressure off the lock.
You sure have not been having very good luck with breaking stuff off on your bikes.
Did you ever get that broken stud off your Valkyrie?
Good luck removing it.

 

[ASPC]

Small needle nose pliers will remove it. Spray it with WD-40 first.

 

[Sadlsor]

I can't add to the great tips already mentioned for removal, but for those who haven't yet broken a key this way, and whose veins may be stiffening in icy fear, it makes good sense to keep the filler / drain area underneath the gas cap clean of sand, dirt, and the little detritus that may migrate into the latch or lock.

 

[Tdinova]

I always push down on the lid while turning the key to open. FILL.up then alway down on the lid to close. I watch the key roll back in place. Done

 

[jfheath]

As I warned you when I lived in San Jose, don’t use the OEM Honda keys because they bend and crack, and break off in the ignition, gas cap, and saddlebag locks.

With HISS, we have very little choice, although I did keep the broken handle in the right hand pocket when riding and used my metal key without the chip. Just hold the chip against the metal key's handle and start the engine. After that it could go back in the pocket. The engine continues to run until either the red kill switch is pressed, or the ignition is turned off. It even survives a stall. But now I always have two proper keys and the metal one and a third at home.

for those who haven't yet broken a key this way, and whose veins may be stiffening in icy fear, it makes good sense to keep the filler / drain area underneath the gas cap clean of sand, dirt, and the little detritus that may migrate into the latch or lock.

Here's the little detritus. Sorry, no scale, but it came out of the tube at the filler cap end when blasted with an impressive pop-gun sound effect.
I have a leather Baglux tank bra on. It now has rectangle of plastic resting over the filler cap and positioned under the bra.
Think about it - You only ever discover that the tube is blocked when you open your filler cap, and the outside is full to the brim with rain water.
It would have been above the brim, but you opened the filler cap ! So now you think how fortunate it is that you have E10 fuel.

I only cleaned it out the year before (photo is Sept 2022) - but I suppose now with the ACF50 sticky stuff on the inside, it is less likely that any grit will wash out. But at least it won't be rusting the tube. We did have a couple of heavy downpours which deposited sand from the Sahara over everywhere.

 

[maddog13]

One more thought on the key breaking off. The last knotch where the key breaks is not required for the gas cap or the saddle bags.
I got one cut where that area was left uncut thinking it would add some strength in that area.

 

[Savago]

Gentlefolks

Thanks all for the good advice and suggestions.

I managed to remove the broken key using a tweezer.

I bought a kit for $31 bucks from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09J97YT3X?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1) and turns out the model SA-15 (Eagle beak fine tip curved, can be bought individually for $5.99) fits perfectly along the groove of the key and has enough surface contact to ensure that you can grip and pull the broken key from the keyhole.

I hope the lessons learned from this unfortunate event can be used by others to know how to handle such situation.

A few photos attached:

 

[Savago]

As I warned you when I lived in San Jose, don’t use the OEM Honda keys because they bend and crack, and break off in the ignition, gas cap, and saddlebag locks.
This is very common!
To avoid this, use a replacement key, keep a spare on the bike somewhere, keep the locks clean and lubricated, and press down on the gas cap, or saddlebag latch as you turn the key, to remove pressure off the lock.
You sure have not been having very good luck with breaking stuff off on your bikes.
Did you ever get that broken stud off your Valkyrie?
Good luck removing it.

Larry, good to hear from you man!


Yes, since 2017 I've used the replacement key as the official one and never had any issues. But just so happened that one day this last week, I was in a hurry and just grabbed the first key I found (the Honda OEM one) and the rest of the story you guys know.

Concerning the Valkyrie, I had it towed in 2017 to Fairfield so the WingNuts shop (now closed and gone forever) drilled the 2 stuck bolts and replaced them for bigger ones with nuts and a collar. It doesn't look pretty but on the plus side it will never get stuck in the engine block like the originals. And that for me is peace of mind.

Of course, the replacement alternator wasn't a OEM one and it would only output power past 1200RPM (the idle is supposed to be at 900RPM), its o-ring leaked oil and in the end I got tired and decided to bite the bullet and ordered the original Mitsubishi alternator made in Japan. But that is another story.