M77 Replaces Moly 60- Apparently So

mello dude

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At this point I don’t know what Larry recommends, but my next splines moly will be the LocTite 51048 paste. Still have some Honda Moly 60 though...

John
I checked over the Valkyrie forum too, and seems like they have the same experience (bad) with the Honda M77 Moly... and also going with the Loctite 51048 paste...
To Amazon, click, click....

Ok done talking about Moly, how bout an oil thread?
 
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Wow, 13 pages.. ok my head is spinning, I did read quite a bit of the thread..... I need to asm my Valkyrie wheel splines together. Is the Locktite product the consensus one to use? I do have a 10 year old Honda M60 tube sitting around.
There is
https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Seize-Moly-Paste-Brush/dp/B007I9W86U/ref=pd_sbs_328_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B007I9W86U&pd_rd_r=33c8861d-7378-11e9-bc3b-5ffc0e2db024&pd_rd_w=PEi2K&pd_rd_wg=gbKsg&pf_rd_p=588939de-d3f8-42f1-a3d8-d556eae5797d&pf_rd_r=SXM81ASB8SQYH2SNYNWB&psc=1&refRID=SXM81ASB8SQYH2SNYNWB

Or
https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-234227-LOC51048-Anti-Seize-Compound/dp/B001HWBSJW

Which one?
Did you notice both have the same part number? Different packaging for the same product. I'm not recommending one over the other. I've made my choice and, like oil and batteries (and motorcycles, for that matter) I'll live w/ the consequences of my decisions.
 

mello dude

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Did you notice both have the same part number? Different packaging for the same product. I'm not recommending one over the other. I've made my choice and, like oil and batteries (and motorcycles, for that matter) I'll live w/ the consequences of my decisions.
I did catch that after I posted, so I assume the 2 are one and the same.... I did my order.... $28.63... (yay!) done... whew... 239461
 

Igofar

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Larry uses the Loctite LB8012, formerly known as Loctite 51048.
Lately been using it on Valk's, Wing's, and BMW's with very good results...YMMV.
I've even used it on some ST's that were showing signs of damage starting, and on the next tire change, it was still in place, and no further wear was seen.
 
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When my supplies of Honda Moly 60 and Guard Dog GD-525 get used or dry up, it will be the LB8012 for me. The moly is dry anyway, so dried paste can probably be reconstituted with a bit of compatible grease. When they talk of "speed", I believe they are talking about the relative speed of the meshed parts, which in this case is essentially zero. We are only trying to prevent fretting. Not sure that 60% moly would sling out of anything , but there is an o-ring there to resist it.

Cute joke about the BMW's. They deserve it.
 
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Andrew Shadow

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@Andrew Shadow 's post of the data sheet for PST-77 - the stuff in the white M-77 tube from Honda / PolySi - shows that they claim that their PST-77 is comparable to Dow Cornings Molykote M-77.

So it would seem that >40% MoS2 and a consistency of NLGI 2 are not the only criteria to be used.
In looking in to this there seems to be more than enough confusion and suspicion surrounding whether M77 is a suitable replacement for Moly 60 for drive splines. It would seem that this change would merit clear instructions from Honda. No where could I find such a document. Honda dealers do not have any technical bulletin supporting the change. I contacted Honda Canada directly and they could not (or would not) provide any supporting documentation for this change. It was changed in their parts data base so there is an authorization document somewhere that supports and allows the change.

What really irritates me the most about this entire saga is the lack of desire on the behalf of Honda to provide a concrete and reasonable answer to their customers. I personally asked Honda Canada about this and got nothing of any real substance other than M77 replaces Moly 60. When I asked if that is the case for all applications where Moly 60 was called for, such as the drive splines specifically, they would not reply directly to that question and would only say that M77 replaces Moly 60. Other than that one rather trivial Shop Talk issue I posted which casually references M77 as being the replacement for Moly 60, they claim that they have no further documentation supporting the change from Moly 60 to M77 for drive splines.
I saw the same posted from other people on other forums over and over so a lot of people have been asking Honda about this around the world.

I find this laughable. Changing chemicals such as the drive spline lubricant can have disastrous consequences if the replacement product is not up to the task of the environment the splines operate in. A company as large as Honda does not make such a change on a whim without some level of study. That change is not going to be made without someone having looked in to it and having issued paperwork that authorizes making the change. All of the service manuals where Moly 60 was called for will have had to be revised. Changes like that are not being done without some one's approval.

Either Honda thinks that M77 is suitable for drive splines or they don't. They don't seem to be willing to commit to either answer when I asked them. Either way they have issued something somewhere supporting making this change. Merely making a change in a parts data base is not in and of itself a technical justification for that change.
Could they not simply pass this information on to their customers?
Could they not simply pass this information on to their own dealer network at least?

At the time that this change was made issuing a technical bulletin advising that M77 is suitable in all application where Moly 60 was previously called for, or one that stipulates what applications it is and is not suitable for would have avoided a lot of confusion and irritated customers. Certainly doing so after they had received so many requests about it would have been good customer service.
 
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So I call my local Honda auto dealer and ask if they have the M77 { Igive him the part #}. He says yes and i ride over. I go to the counter and ask for it , he goes in the back, comes out and says sorry we dont have it. I get a little aggravated and ask him to look again. Comes back with a tube of MOLLY 60! says he never saw it before. Is this my lucky day? Only tube he had.
 

mello dude

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Molybdenum is a silvery-white metal that is ductile and highly resistant to corrosion.

Molybdenum disulfide
(or moly) is an inorganic compound composed of molybdenum and sulfur. Its chemical formula is MoS2. The compound is classified as a transition metal dichalcogenide.

Yet the Loctite label states it is metal-free. :shrug1:
 
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Yet the Loctite label states it is metal-free. :shrug1:
You could say the same thing about table salt (sodium chloride). I would consider a shaker full of table salt to be "metal free" because the sodium is chemically bound just as the molybdenum is.
 
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You could say the same thing about table salt (sodium chloride). I would consider a shaker full of table salt to be "metal free" because the sodium is chemically bound just as the molybdenum is.
true enough, but why take the fun out of a moly thread with chemistry facts when we're only at post 280?
 
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true enough, but why take the fun out of a moly thread with chemistry facts when we're only at post 280?
Sorry, it is the latent chemical engineer in me. It never takes a break. I think the comparison was to anti-sieze compounds that are nickel or copper based that do indeed have metal in them. Some marketer probably thought it was a selling point. They should have said "non-GMO and gluten-free" as well.
 
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