Motion pro brake bleeder tool is GREAT.

[sennister]

Yep, a three jaw chuck and you are good to go. I would think you could just wrap the threads with enough thread tape to make a good tight fit when you shoved it in the hose. A small hose clamp wouldn't hurt either.
What are we doing on line? we should both be working on our CC!

I was thinking of taking off the threads and making a nipple like what is on the other side.

As for me, I am working on a computer rebuild for a relative, while watching the kids and Top Gear.

I haven't started the CC install yet. I am working on another project on the bike at the moment on the bike but will get to it.

 

[sennister]

Bigmak-
Thanks for that reference. However, what I was looking for was the reverse bleeder that was mentioned. Andrew did post up about the reverse bleeder from Phoenix Systems who he says is the source from MP gets their reverse bleeder. You can see in the MP video about the reverse bleeding process that the bleeder the tech is using looks identical to the reverse bleeder on the Phoenix Systems site. And, like Andrew, I couldnt find the reverse bleeder on the MP site either.

I wonder why you couldn't use this regular bleeder hooked up backwards, then have a tank that holds the fluid and pressurize it with a shot of air or something.

The benefit of reverse bleeding is that you are pushing any air in the system up, which is the way air tends to want to go anyhow. For this reason this is how typically new bikes, car and trucks are bled in the factory.

The problem though is that you have to watch the reservoir so you don't overflow it. So it is still easier with a second set of eyes to use a turkey baster or something to suck out the fluid as it is pushed up.

 

[W0QNX]

I wonder why you couldn't use this regular bleeder hooked up backwards, then have a tank that holds the fluid and pressurize it with a shot of air or something.

The benefit of reverse bleeding is that you are pushing any air in the system up, which is the way air tends to want to go anyhow. For this reason this is how typically new bikes, car and trucks are bled in the factory.

The problem though is that you have to watch the resevoir so you don't overflow it. So it is still easier with a second set of eyes to use a turkey baster or something to suck out the fluid as it is pushed up.

The thing about the normal brake fluid maintenance on the ST is that it isn't really being done to "bleed" the air out of the system (although it does when done right). The regularly scheduled (every 12,000 miles) brake fluid replace is just that. Replace the fluid. There is very very little air in a normally working brake system. The motion pro tool makes that service simple. It's been my experience there is more moisture in there (yellowness?) then air.

Filling an empty brake system with fluid is a totally different thing.

And if you're going to replace the fluid backwards, how does the left front caliper need to be positioned to bleed the second piston? 15 degrees still?

Raymond

 

[Howesound]

Use a syringe or vacuum pump and suck the reservoir out before you add nice clean fluid to pump through your system.

the thing is, in the video there is clean fluid coming up into the reservoir. If you just remove the fluid from the reservoir with a turkey baster there would still be dirty fluid being pumped up from inside the line and calliper. I think you would have to be removing dirty fluid a couple of times untill you have only clean fluid filling the reservoir. This isn't shown in either video.

 

[sennister]

The thing about the normal brake fluid maintenance on the ST is that it isn't really being done to "bleed" the air out of the system (although it does when done right). The regularly scheduled (every 12,000 miles) brake fluid replace is just that. Replace the fluid. There is very very little air in a normally working brake system. The motion pro tool makes that service simple. It's been my experience there is more moisture in there (yellowness?) then air.

Filling an empty brake system with fluid is a totally different thing.

And if you're going to replace the fluid backwards, how does the left front caliper need to be positioned to bleed the second piston? 15 degrees still?

Raymond

Not entirely true.

My father would always reverse bleed the brakes in his Cessna 182. Sure in a fluid change you typically don't have much if any air in the system. That doesn't mean that you never introduce any air in the bleed process for instance. I get the primary reason to do this is to flush the old fluid out and replace that with new. In this case there is no reason the old can't be pushed out as the new goes in. As I said the disadvantage is that you need someone watching the reservoir so it doesn't overlfow with the old fluid.

You are right that the factory is priming the lines by getting out all the air and replacing it with fluid. But the end result is the same and there is no reason the same process can't be used to do a flush. That said, I only described how it can be done in rough terms. I don't reverse bleed. Personally I use a Mighty Vac and bleed the normal direction. I wouldn't try a reverse bleed with only one person where I can do a normal bleed by my self without any problems.

 

[sennister]

the thing is, in the video there is clean fluid coming up into the reservoir. If you just remove the fluid from the reservoir with a turkey baster there would still be dirty fluid being pumped up from inside the line and calliper. I think you would have to be removing dirty fluid a couple of times untill you have only clean fluid filling the reservoir. This isn't shown in either video.

Exactly, that is why you really need two people. One person keeping that reservoir clean of fluid as it is pushed up and one person pushing on the bottom. If that is with a syringe or a pressure tank of some sort depends on what your set up is. The reason you can't just let it go is if you let your tank of new fluid on the bottom run dry you just introduced air and have to start over. Yet you also have to watch the top to make sure you don't overfill the reservoir and wreck your paint.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Andrew did post up about the reverse bleeder from Phoenix Systems who he says is the source from MP gets their reverse bleeder.

Just to annotate my statement that the tool which Motion Pro sells is actually a tool made by Phoenix Systems. In the very beginning of the Motion Pro video the presenter states that the tool is a "Phoenix Systems fluid injection system". This is how I tracked it down. As for its availability from Motion Pro the following link is all I could find on their website. http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0316/#

 

[Igofar]

Igofar-
I searched the MP site for the reverse bleeding tool and couldnt find anything. Do you have any additional info or perhaps a part number for this tool?

My motion pro catalog shows them on page 45. There are (3) the first one (Industrial Pro size) is called the MAXI-JECT PRO #08-0215. The second one is called the V-12 Injector #08-0214 (Reverse Fluid Injection).
The Best bang for your buck is the D.I.Y BRAKE AND CLUTCH BLEDER #08-0316. And lastly the EASY BLEED-HYDRAULIC BRAKE BLEEDER #080143. This is the tool shown in this thread.
You should be able to research them on line at the Motion pro website.
Hope this helps.

 

[Igofar]

It's operation is so simple many seem to have missed it. You push the hose on the end of the bleeder tool over the brake bleed nipple on the caliper and then open the brake bleed nipple. Start pumping the brake!!!! and it's working! Your simply pumping new fluid down the lines from the brake reservoir. The bleed tool is a one way check valve that prevents back flow of old fluid or air. Doesn't get much easier then that.

Raymond

It's operation is so simple you may have missed it You should never pull all the dirty fluid through the system! Drain the master cylinder with an ear bulb syringe, turkey baster, syringe, or even a tampon (don't tell the misses), and clean all the
pond scum out of the bottom of the master cylinder before you start. Be sure to clean the diaphram with denatured alcohol too.

 

[Igofar]

The thing about the normal brake fluid maintenance on the ST is that it isn't really being done to "bleed" the air out of the system (although it does when done right). The regularly scheduled (every 12,000 miles) brake fluid replace is just that. Replace the fluid. There is very very little air in a normally working brake system. The motion pro tool makes that service simple. It's been my experience there is more moisture in there (yellowness?) then air.

Filling an empty brake system with fluid is a totally different thing.

And if you're going to replace the fluid backwards, how does the left front caliper need to be positioned to bleed the second piston? 15 degrees still?

Raymond

When you do a reverse injection, you are simply filling the dry lines with fluid, so you can then bleed them normaly with your smaller MP tool.
As stated, bleeding air, flushing the fluid, and installing new lines for the first time are three different things.
For the ST's service, your simply flushing and replacing the fluid with new.
And yes, you must still follow the OEM manual's proper procedure and sequence to do it properly.

 

[Igofar]

Exactly, that is why you really need two people. One person keeping that reservoir clean of fluid as it is pushed up and one person pushing on the bottom. If that is with a syringe or a pressure tank of some sort depends on what your set up is. The reason you can't just let it go is if you let your tank of new fluid on the bottom run dry you just introduced air and have to start over. Yet you also have to watch the top to make sure you don't overfill the reservoir and wreck your paint.

You don't need two people, if you notice how long the clear tubing is, you can place it on the bleeder and position yourself next to the master cylinder your working on.
I've never needed a second person, unless I'm working on a cage (car/truck).

 

[squirrel Hunter]

I just picked up a Motion Pro tool at my local BMW dealer, paid a few bucks more than I could get it on-line for it but I saw it on a wall while looking for eardos.

Igofar used his on my ST13 just before I left for Death Valley last week and I wish I had something like this all along. He gave me a great demonstration of how easy it is when you've found all the little shortcuts he's discovered from doing so many brake on STs:bow1: the sounds coming from system reminded me of the movie Das Boot when it was close to crush depth

 

[Igofar]

I just picked up a Motion Pro tool at my local BMW dealer, paid a few bucks more than I could get it on-line for it but I saw it on a wall while looking for eardos.

Igofar used his on my ST13 just before I left for Death Valley last week and I wish I had something like this all along. He gave me a great demonstration of how easy it is when you've found all the little shortcuts he's discovered from doing so many brake on STs:bow1: the sounds coming from system reminded me of the movie Das Boot when it was close to crush depth

You didn't pay more for your tool ....what you paid extra for, was walking in the front door of a BMW shop
So when do you want to finish the servcie on your ST?

 

[forgitaboutut]

ok..I'll bite! Since I have to do 3 ABS bikes now,,,TOO many bleeders!!!
Just ordered....(mighty vac STILL needs 2 people...)
Thanks! for posting!
looking forward to next fluid change!

 

[Igofar]

ok..I'll bite! Since I have to do 3 ABS bikes now,,,TOO many bleeders!!!
Just ordered....(mighty vac STILL needs 2 people...)
Thanks! for posting!
looking forward to next fluid change!

I'll bet you end up giving your might vac away, once you see how easy it is to bleed things with the MP tool.
I bet your gonna do this
Let us know how it worked for ya.
If you have any questions before, during or after, feel free to PM me.
Igofar

 

[dduelin]

The thing about the normal brake fluid maintenance on the ST is that it isn't really being done to "bleed" the air out of the system (although it does when done right). The regularly scheduled (every 12,000 miles) brake fluid replace is just that. Replace the fluid. There is very very little air in a normally working brake system. The motion pro tool makes that service simple. It's been my experience there is more moisture in there (yellowness?) then air.

Filling an empty brake system with fluid is a totally different thing.

And if you're going to replace the fluid backwards, how does the left front caliper need to be positioned to bleed the second piston? 15 degrees still?

Raymond

The air that gets into hydraulic systems comes in as moisture absorbed by the hydroscopic nature of DOT 3 & 4 brake fluids. When the brake fluid gets hot in a caliper or in a line/hose found under the fairing surrounded by hot air, the heat which can reach several hundred degrees boils the moisture which separates the air out into tiny bubbles which eventually merge into larger ones. It doesn't take much of it to soften a lever or pedal and there are lots of places this can happen in the 1300's linked brake system hence Honda's 12k or 2 year recommendation. It is an important maintenance item on this bike.

 

[970mike]

I'll be you end up giving your might vac away, once you see how easy it is to bleed things with the MP tool.
Igofar

You can still use the mighty vac to suck out the old fluid in the reservoir first before using the motion pro to bleed the system. It works great for that, and even better on the large reservoirs on cars and trucks.

 

[Smallville]

You should never reverse bleed a system that has been in service. Any trash that has gathered in the calipers will be forced up through the entire system. This can damage ABS units and master cylinders.

 

[forgitaboutut]

I'll be you end up giving your might vac away, once you see how easy it is to bleed things with the MP tool.
I bet your gonna do this
Let us know how it worked for ya.
If you have any questions before, during or after, feel free to PM me.
Igofar

Thanks! will call on you for help if needed!
I will also use the MV for fork fluid level and coolant overflow tank (not sure about on ST yet, havent seen how it's done yet)
But on wings , its easier to fill it with plain H2o (DISTILLED of course! and suck it all out (repeat..)
instead of removing the reservoir tank!

 

[Igofar]

You should never reverse bleed a system that has been in service. Any trash that has gathered in the calipers will be forced up through the entire system. This can damage ABS units and master cylinders.

The only reason you would want to use a reverse bleed, is when you have clean empty lines (like installing ss brake lines). Or if you empty the master cylinder, and the lines first, and are having problems bleeding all the air out of the system because of air pockets in some fittings. But I would agree 100% that you should not simply try to use the reverse bleed to flush fluid with during regular service.