the reason it no longer has API rating( not sure if it ever did) is because elements in the oil will harm catalytic converters on gas engines.
Motor oil
- Thread starter Rick Fisher
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It did have API certification for gas engines prior to Dec 2016. Stock on shelves was used up in 2017, replaced by current product that omits reference to API certs for spark (gas) engines.
When I first put Rotella in my ST it was API SN.
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
Just to clarify, I didn't write that Rotella doesn't have any API rating.
In fact, it has several API ratings, and it always has had API ratings. It just does not have any API S ratings, which disqualifies it from JASO MA certification.
It is important to understand that the JASO standards are not only for wet clutch operation. They are also to ensure minimum lubrication standards for mechanical transmissions that share lubricating oil with the engine. This is not a scenario found with automobiles. There have been motorcycle transmission failures that have been attributed to the use of automotive oils. This is because automotive oils continue to progress to where they are more highly targeted to meet the demands found in the engines of modern automobiles. API and SAE standards do not consider or respond to the demands of motorcycles with integrated transmissions and wet clutches because these oils are not intended for that application.
Not so long ago JASO revised their standards again specifically because of more changes made to automobile engine oils that improve protection to the engine, emissions systems and turbo chargers of modern automobiles because so many automobiles are turbo charged now. These changes are also designed to address the relatively new problem of what is called low speed pre-ignition automobiles suffer from now. Unfortunately, these changes reduced the lubrication protection offered to motorcycle transmissions, let alone wet clutches. As a result, JASO had to respond to these changes and amend their standards to ensure proper lubrication for motorcycle engine/transmission combinations.
I reiterate that I am not trying to dissuade anyone from using Shell Rotella. I am simply trying to get the message out that selecting any oil that does not state energy/resource conserving on the label no longer means anything. It is no longer that simple due to constantly evolving changes in the industry. An unverified statement of compliance to JASO MA, or any standard for that matter, is only that, an unverified statement. If compliance to JASO MA is of importance to someone, the only remaining assurance of compliance to that standard that is available is JASO MA certification.
Unless I can find a remarkable automobile oil I am probably staying with motorcycle oil from now on because it seems there are now to many variables to consider. I want smooth shifts, a happy clutch, reduced wear and a quiet engine and transmission and currently the only way I can reliably get that is with a motorcycle specific oil. I don’t want to think about this more than I must because it is one more thing taking up my time and I really don’t need that. .. but I still enjoy the subject. Next oil change, Motul 7100. Amazon, $48 and free shipping. Done. I do not care what the oil smells like or looks like or who makes it, I only care about how it performs.
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Your Motul will perform almost as good as the Valvoline Premium blue diesel oil....you know the one without the JASO MA on the label, that is still rated for gas engines, and runs cooler, quieter, and shifts better, that you can find on sale and get about 5 gallons for the price you just paid for you fancy marketing oil
Your Motul will perform almost as good as the Valvoline Premium blue diesel oil....you know the one without the JASO MA on the label, that is still rated for gas engines, and runs cooler, quieter, and shifts better, that you can find on sale and get about 5 gallons for the price you just paid for you fancy marketing oil
$30 for the conventional diesel oil Valvoline, and $48 for the synthetic motorcycle oil Motul.. an irrelevant price difference IMO. I am interested to read why you believe the Valvoline is better in this application than a motorcycle specific synthetic oil.
FWIW and for those that might be interested, this is an example of the label that you would find on the back of a product that JASO has certified motorcycle 4 stroke motor oil.
With this label, you don’t have to wonder whether a manufacturer’s claim of meeting JASO specs is true or just a marketing strategy.
Happy hunting!
With this label, you don’t have to wonder whether a manufacturer’s claim of meeting JASO specs is true or just a marketing strategy.
Happy hunting!
I have a hard time believing any of the major brands would state compliance on the label without being compliant.
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
I would have agreed with that Paul, until I suffered clutch problems directly as a result of the oil that I was using. Because of that experience I had to do some research, and I learned more about oil and labeling standards than I ever wanted to. I also learned that picking a suitable automotive engine oil to be used in a motorcycle that shares oil between the engine and transmission, and also has a wet clutch, is no longer the simple matter of making sure that it doesn't state energy conserving like it used to be. I also learned that what is on the label is only part of the story, and that what isn't on the label is just as important. Also keep in mind that they are careful to not state compliance with JASO MA. Part of complying with JASO MA is having an approved JASO MA mark and number. They state that they meet the performance requirements of. What does that mean? That statement is so open ended and broad that it has no meaning.
I also remember that Shell was the same oil company that denied for years that they were putting an additive in to their gas that was ruining fuel gauge sending units. They kept denying it until it was proven in court, in multiple jurisdictions worldwide, that not only were they using this additive, but that they knew that it was the cause of the problems with the sending units, and they kept using it anyway rather than admit fault. This cost them (or their insurance company) billions of dollars in class action law suits all over the world.
Unfortunately, the drive for profit seems to be an end unto itself for many companies now, at the expense of everything else. I am not in a position to make that claim against Shell, but I have learned to head the old adage of trust, but verify whenever reasonably possible. In this case, this is something that is very easy to verify.
I also remember that Shell was the same oil company that denied for years that they were putting an additive in to their gas that was ruining fuel gauge sending units. They kept denying it until it was proven in court, in multiple jurisdictions worldwide, that not only were they using this additive, but that they knew that it was the cause of the problems with the sending units, and they kept using it anyway rather than admit fault. This cost them (or their insurance company) billions of dollars in class action law suits all over the world.
Unfortunately, the drive for profit seems to be an end unto itself for many companies now, at the expense of everything else. I am not in a position to make that claim against Shell, but I have learned to head the old adage of trust, but verify whenever reasonably possible. In this case, this is something that is very easy to verify.
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https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
The ultimate oil thread.
The ultimate oil thread.
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I do not agree that any wet clutch in good condition should perform well in any motor vehicle oil. They were not designed to. I do agree that there are some significantly better motor vehicle oils out there than many motorcycle oils but again, that is because motorcycle oils are designed to work with wet clutches.
I am not recommending anything.. but for the sake of putting the cat amongst the pigeons I will say this. Years ago I was working on someones motorcycle cylinder head and the cam journals were some of the nicest I had ever seen. So I asked the guy what oil he was using and where he had been riding and he said he was using mobil 1 10w30 motor oil on trips to Mexico! And that he had used that oil from new and at the time had over 30K miles on the bike.
This does not surprise me.Well ....!
Some of the very worst UOA's that I got back were with the GN4 Honda branded oils.
I even got some better UOA's with the .99 cent generic branded oil(s) from the grocery store than from genuine Honda oil(s).
Perhaps shell dropped the S rating (gas engines) from their Rotella Diesel oil line of products because the would have to actually have them certified, and it would cost some serious money to do that, and since its not their target market anyway (motorcycles) why would they waste the money.
I find it interesting that they came out with the S rated Rotella brand for cars and light trucks (gas engines) about the same time they removed the S rating off the diesel stuff
I find it interesting that they came out with the S rated Rotella brand for cars and light trucks (gas engines) about the same time they removed the S rating off the diesel stuff
It might be, but at over 400 pages of info with no organization, it is worthless to me. I did a search on "Valvoline Premium blue " and came up with some places where it was mentioned, along with Shell Rotella T6 above or below it...but what was the context? Beats me. And the headings or groupings he's put things in, are in the same text as everything else.
Thanks for the link though.
Chris
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
The quoted text is about oil filters, not engine oil.
Not really germaine to anything, Just an F.Y.I.- The Honda part number quoted is a Honda automobile oil filter, not a motorcycle filter.
It is a filter which some people here use on the ST1300.
mello dude
Half genius, half dumazz whackjob foole
Only 7 pages? Jeez, you guys are slipping...
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