Motor oil

[ReSTored]

So.............. Last fall I finished up a pail of Rotella T4 that was several years old and used it to change oil on my 2019 Tracer 900 GT. It has a catalytic converter. I am satisfied with Rotella saying they meet or exceed JASO MA / MA2 specs, my decision on this and I've read the thread. I tossed the empty pail at that time and don't recall if it was CK-4 or the old format that was API S...... compliant. I probably purchased the pail 3 - 4 years ago.

If I still had the 2002 ST I'd be OK using the CK-4 Rotella, but with the new bike having a cat I'm a little hesitant to use something that is not API SG (as the Tracer manual stipulates) or newer

So question, is there a relatively inexpensive diesel or regular oil out there that is API S compliant as well as representing it meets JASO MA / MA2 standards?

I suppose I could just use a 5L jug of Motul 5100 blend or 7100 full synthetic. Good oil I think, but expensive.

 

[ReSTored]

Only 7 pages? Jeez, you guys are slipping...

New question, as above, I'm hoping for a good response and another couple of pages.

 

[red one]

$30 for the conventional diesel oil Valvoline, and $48 for the synthetic motorcycle oil Motul.. an irrelevant price difference IMO. I am interested to read why you believe the Valvoline is better in this application than a motorcycle specific synthetic oil.

New question, as above, I'm hoping for a good response and another couple of pages.

Well here you go just. Just cut the grass today and filled the crankcase up with left over Pennzoil car oil....instead of the Brings and Stratton lawnmower oil the manual suggested. Oh and the motor did not blow up.

 

[Daboo]

So.............. Last fall I finished up a pail of Rotella T4 that was several years old and used it to change oil on my 2019 Tracer 900 GT. It has a catalytic converter. I am satisfied with Rotella saying they meet or exceed JASO MA / MA2 specs, my decision on this and I've read the thread. I tossed the empty pail at that time and don't recall if it was CK-4 or the old format that was API S...... compliant. I probably purchased the pail 3 - 4 years ago.

If I still had the 2002 ST I'd be OK using the CK-4 Rotella, but with the new bike having a cat I'm a little hesitant to use something that is not API SG (as the Tracer manual stipulates) or newer

So question, is there a relatively inexpensive diesel or regular oil out there that is API S compliant as well as representing it meets JASO MA / MA2 standards?

I suppose I could just use a 5L jug of Motul 5100 blend or 7100 full synthetic. Good oil I think, but expensive.

I looked up JASO MA/MA2 standard and found this at https://www.whitedogbikes.com/white...torbike-oil-what-does-jaso-and-jaso-ma2-mean/


You could look up JASO MA2 yourself to confirm it, but it looks like he copied and pasted that text directly from somewhere that was a bit more definitive.

I've had a catalytic converter in every bike since I started riding again in 2006 and obviously in all my cars. I've used Shell Rotella T6 in all of them, and had no problems with the catalytic converters. You'd never know on a motorcycle because there's no emissions test (at least where I live), but the cars were all tested and came out fine.

Chris

 

[Al st1100]

I looked up JASO MA/MA2 standard and found this at https://www.whitedogbikes.com/white...torbike-oil-what-does-jaso-and-jaso-ma2-mean/


You could look up JASO MA2 yourself to confirm it, but it looks like he copied and pasted that text directly from somewhere that was a bit more definitive.

I've had a catalytic converter in every bike since I started riding again in 2006 and obviously in all my cars. I've used Shell Rotella T6 in all of them, and had no problems with the catalytic converters. You'd never know on a motorcycle because there's no emissions test (at least where I live), but the cars were all tested and came out fine.

Chris

The cats on motorcycles are not tested (yet) by the ECM. In your car it's tested by the rear O2. Converters are sensitive to phosphorus an anti wear agent. The standards for phosphorus in car oils is less than 800 ppm. T6 contains 1200 ppm now other factors that are involved like how much oil is burned, driving habits and the ability of the converter to burn off contaminants. for what the cost of converters are it might be prudent to use the correct oil. The cost can be less if you watch for rebates. I just purchased 4 5 qt jugs of Valvoline full synthetic for $23 and there is a promotion now for $10 dollars each up to 4 . That makes it pretty cheap. just for info.

 

[RaYzerman]

@ ReSTored......... my Canadian spin......
I personally wouldn't sweat it too much, you have to be burning oil..... more of a car thing with cats I'd say. Little FYI, at the bike show in March, a vendor of gear and accessories had LiquiMoly full synthetic 10W40 for $45 and Motul 7100 for $64, no tax. I picked up two 4L jugs..... wish I'd have got more. Hope for a similar deal next year. I see nothing wrong with Motul 5100..... Rotella out of stock mostly everywhere, got a US gal. of T6 15W40 (US only) that cost me C$42. I'll go with one of my aforementioned as a preference in future.

 

[Igofar]

So.............. Last fall I finished up a pail of Rotella T4 that was several years old and used it to change oil on my 2019 Tracer 900 GT. It has a catalytic converter. I am satisfied with Rotella saying they meet or exceed JASO MA / MA2 specs, my decision on this and I've read the thread. I tossed the empty pail at that time and don't recall if it was CK-4 or the old format that was API S...... compliant. I probably purchased the pail 3 - 4 years ago.

If I still had the 2002 ST I'd be OK using the CK-4 Rotella, but with the new bike having a cat I'm a little hesitant to use something that is not API SG (as the Tracer manual stipulates) or newer

So question, is there a relatively inexpensive diesel or regular oil out there that is API S compliant as well as representing it meets JASO MA / MA2 standards?

I suppose I could just use a 5L jug of Motul 5100 blend or 7100 full synthetic. Good oil I think, but expensive.

Diesel's don't have motorcycle clutches to worry about, so why would they spend thousands of dollars for the certification on their oil?
The CK-4 and the API S are apples and oranges, as they are both on MOST diesel oils nowadays. The C rating is for injectors, and the S rating is for gas engines.
The Valvoline Premium blue, one solution, that I've been using lately, has been returning really good UOA's, has a great clutch grab, and runs quieter and cooler than just about any oil I've used in the last 10 years.
It does NOT have the JASO MA certification (nor probably meets those standards, again, why would they?) but the folks I talked to in length at Valvoline assured me that it was designed for ALL engines (one solution) and they took the evil word DIESEL off the label, because it was scaring folks and call it a HEAVY DUTY ENGINE OIL now.
I myself, will continue to use it.
I've torn down 2 clutch assemblies in the past two months, both bikes with over 150,000 miles on them, both have been using this Valvoline product that I suggested, and on both bikes, we found the clutch assembly clean and looking new, with no signs of spongey or soft material, and the edges were still sharp, and they still had more than 50-60% material left on them.
In both cases, the bikes were put back together without replacing anything other than the springs (because they wanted peace of mind, and had brought them with them).
Autozone has the 2.5 gal jugs on sale for $36 dollars right now (in my area).
You may be surprised if you try it.

 

[Whisperquiet]

Oil threads ….. use these oils and chain lube. Don’t worry..be happy!

 

[Daboo]

Autozone has the 2.5 gal jugs on sale for $36 dollars right now (in my area).

I think Autozone has a 10% military discount too. O'Reilly's does.

Chris

 

[northwestparider]

Diesel's don't have motorcycle clutches to worry about, so why would they spend thousands of dollars for the certification on their oil?
The CK-4 and the API S are apples and oranges, as they are both on MOST diesel oils nowadays. The C rating is for injectors, and the S rating is for gas engines.
The Valvoline Premium blue, one solution, that I've been using lately, has been returning really good UOA's, has a great clutch grab, and runs quieter and cooler than just about any oil I've used in the last 10 years.
It does NOT have the JASO MA certification (nor probably meets those standards, again, why would they?) but the folks I talked to in length at Valvoline assured me that it was designed for ALL engines (one solution) and they took the evil word DIESEL off the label, because it was scaring folks and call it a HEAVY DUTY ENGINE OIL now.
I myself, will continue to use it.
I've torn down 2 clutch assemblies in the past two months, both bikes with over 150,000 miles on them, both have been using this Valvoline product that I suggested, and on both bikes, we found the clutch assembly clean and looking new, with no signs of spongey or soft material, and the edges were still sharp, and they still had more than 50-60% material left on them.
In both cases, the bikes were put back together without replacing anything other than the springs (because they wanted peace of mind, and had brought them with them).
Autozone has the 2.5 gal jugs on sale for $36 dollars right now (in my area).
You may be surprised if you try it.

Is this the oil you've been referring to? I've only used Castrol GTX in my V65.

 

[Duporth]

Are there any problems swapping around oil type; using Full-Synthetic oils to Semi-Syn, or non synthetics?
Problems swapping oil manufacturer?
- assuming all are 10w-40, JASO?
Sometimes it is not easy finding a steady supply of one oil type/spec/manufacturer.
Tks, D

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Diesel's don't have motorcycle clutches to worry about, so why would they spend thousands of dollars for the certification on their oil?

That would be a believable scenario if the certification was very cost prohibitive, bit it is not.
Keep in mind that we are talking about multi-billion dollar global corporations. Cost prohibitive to them is amounts in the millions, not thousands.

Oil companies include claims on their labels that their oil meets JASO MA specifications because they believe that this will help them sell more product. They believe this because they know that there are millions of consumers world-wide who look for this. If they didn't believe that this increases their sales, they would not bother even mentioning it on their label at all.

As of April 01, 2022, the cost of getting a JASO MA certification is 40, 000 YEN. That is a whopping $317.58 USD.

No multi-billion dollar oil company that operates world-wide is going to choose to not get a certification that goes along with a specification that they believe meeting is to their advantage. They are not going to abandon potential increased sales world-wide to save a measly $318.00 USD. That would simply be stupid on their part.

If their oil meets the JASO MA criteria, they will happily pay a paltry $318.00 USD to be able to brag about it and advertise it so that they can sell more product.
If they are not getting the JASO MA certification, it is much more likely that the reason is because they can't get it because their oil doesn't meet the JASO MA criteria for one reason or another.

 

[Daboo]

...If their oil meets the JASO MA criteria, they will happily pay a paltry $318.00 USD to be able to brag about it and advertise it so that they can sell more product.
If they are not getting the JASO MA certification, it is much more likely that the reason is because they can't get it because their oil doesn't meet the JASO MA criteria for one reason or another.

I believe you are talking about Valvoline, but I think Rotella fits into this category...but not what you're thinking of, Andrew. I've seen pages written on how Rotella says it meets the JASO spec...but Ah Ha!!!...it doesn't have the seal of certification!!! It really doesn't matter.

Here you have someone who repairs motorcycles for a living and he says he trusts Valvoline Blue. I don't really care if it has a sticker on the side. I trust him.

There are disagreements regarding using a "diesel" oil like Shell Rotella T6 in "motorcycle" engines. It's not just my opinion that it is great for use in a motorcycle, but the most recommended oil on every motorcycle forum I've been a member of. I started using it because of the recommendations of others who had more experience than I did...and the recommendations haven't changed in 16 years of riding. I trust my own experience and that of hundreds of other riders.

Are there any problems swapping around oil type; using Full-Synthetic oils to Semi-Syn, or non synthetics?
Problems swapping oil manufacturer?
- assuming all are 10w-40, JASO?
Sometimes it is not easy finding a steady supply of one oil type/spec/manufacturer.
Tks, D

D, there's no "problems" in mixing full synthetic and semi-synthetic oil...but I think you'd be wasting your money. I'd use semi-synthetic oil if it was the only thing around, but I'd probably just buy the cheaper "dino" oil. There are no standards for how much synthetic oil goes into semi-synthetic oil. It could be half and half or a thimble full. My guess is the oil companies are mixing the oil for their profits, not for your benefit. If that's the case, I'd go for them putting in the least amount of synthetic oil in the container that they feel they can get away with.
(Most synthetic oil is also "dino" oil, just highly refined.)

Chris

 

[ASPC]

Is this about the cost of the oil?

 

[Igofar]

For me its not about the money, but how well it works.
I just don't buy into marketing BS.
We have folks who think Honda's oil is the Holy Grail of oil because Honda built the bike, and must know best etc.
We have folks who are trying to pinch pennies and use the lowest cost oil they can find.
We have folks who are far away from any bike shops, so they use what Walmart has to offer etc.
Then we have the BMW folks.......we're not gonna comment on them since Mellow now owns one
Harley has lost a few lawsuits by claiming the owner must use their oil or void their warranty, these folks buy oil out of fear, and do what their told.
Harley Davidson plays another game with Oil(s) buy not disclosing what weight it is, or what the product contains, forcing these scared people to buy only their branded oil because they don't know what else will work (even though all the current HD owners manuals state that if you can't find HD oil, to use ANY CH rated oil (you guessed it) Diesel oil
You read about guys who travel the world with 200,000 miles on stock Sport Bikes, do they use fancy oil(s) I doubt it, several used Castrol GTX dino.
Pick an oil, change it at the proper mileage, or sooner, and go ride your bike(s) and stop over thinking this stuff.
Flame proof suit on

 

[Larry Fine]

Larry, if you don't mind, what is the exact specific oil you're recommending?

 

[Igofar]

I’m not recommending any oil to anyone, but when folks ask what I am using, this is what I use….

 

[Chris09]

Not for motorcycles but, here's the Canadian Tire special of the week, the Castrol, and past specials of the week, the original long time regular Penzoil and the more recent synthetic blend Penzoil.
I paid 20.99 for these 5l containers today for Castrol, and about 16.99 and 18.99 for the Penzoils some six months and year ago.
Canadian Tire will have one brand, usually Penzoil, on sale for like half or [better now] often, while every other jug is over $40.00
The difference between the Penzoil labels wouldn't have you think twice or even notice that it's gone from whatever to synthetic blend, and how different can the Castrol be from the Penzoil.
Notice they're all distributed by Shell out of Calgary. My guess is that the product probably came from Shell Scotford Refinery. During the time I worked there they didn't do any packaging, but I did witness the packaging stage at Esso Strathcona, where they lined up Motomaster labeled containers behind Esso containers, I don't recall if there were any meets or exceeds on some of those labels...
But it all came out of same splurshy machine.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I believe you are talking about Valvoline, but I think Rotella fits into this category...but not what you're thinking of, Andrew. I've seen pages written on how Rotella says it meets the JASO spec...but Ah Ha!!!...it doesn't have the seal of certification!!! It really doesn't matter.

Actually no Chris, I am not referring to Valvoline or Rotella specifically. It is the not seeking certification to save money premise that I don't buy. Since you referenced Rotella, it is as good an example as any.

You may well be correct that Rotella may be one of the best motorcycle oil choices available. I have never inferred that it isn't. I have never said that it isn't a good oil choice because it doesn't have JASO MA certification either. It is the deceptive marketing that I take issue with.

If Shell has pages of technical data stating how Rotella meets the JASO MA specifications, that means that they have already spent the money to have it tested in accordance with the JASO MA testing criteria, otherwise they would not have that data and they would not know that. So whether they seek the certification or not, that money has already been spent. So that means that they are not taking the final step and are not seeking a JASO MA certification to save $318.00? I find that hard to believe.

That makes no sense, and is why I don't buy the argument that the decision to not seek certification has any basis in finances. If they have spent the money doing the tests and their oil actually does meet the criteria, $318.00 is not the issue, so what is?

 

[Andrew Shadow]

but I did witness the packaging stage at Esso Strathcona, where they lined up Motomaster labeled containers behind Esso containers,

That is not surprising as Esso is the supplier of Motomaster oil, at least some of it. I have seen it stated on the container.