Motor oil

red one said:
. If the same amount was dumped into non synthetic oil it would be just as slippery.
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not exactly true
Is there a big difference between conventional and synthetic oil?


Yes, synthetic oil is better for your engine than conventional oil. ... Synthetics use higher quality base oils as compared to the less-refined base oils used in conventional oils which makes conventional oils: Less chemically stable. Oxidize and acidify more easily.
Additives are closely the same .
 
dwalby said:
FWIW, I don't think Mobil 1 (the automobile version, not the bike specific stuff) was ever JASO certified, and people on this forum have been using it for years without any problems.
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It contains very little moly a little more than t6. Whats interesting is Honda makes a oil for racing only and contains quite a bit of moly and state the advantages of wear protection of moly outweigh the clutch issues that arise from moly. I guess they change clutches a lot.
 
Al st1100 said:
not exactly true
Is there a big difference between conventional and synthetic oil?


Yes, synthetic oil is better for your engine than conventional oil. ... Synthetics use higher quality base oils as compared to the less-refined base oils used in conventional oils which makes conventional oils: Less chemically stable. Oxidize and acidify more easily.
Additives are closely the same .
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Well yes I would say synthetic is better in a certain way. Conventional oil which by the way is not the norm anymore as almost all is a blend. Even if it does not say on the bottle. As plain conventional won't meet the new API standards. But taken on its own such as 5K or 8K drain intervals the conventional oil is up to the task. The Synthetic oils shine as they can go much longer between oil changes some as much as 1 year or 15K and not sludge up. Another big plus is a wider range of hot and cold operating range for the synthetic. I have over 228K on my old Corolla with nothing but Pennzoil regular mineral oil except for the last two years when they changed the formulation and made it a blended oil. ST1100 has close to 80K nothing but GN4 mineral oil and she purrs like a kitten.
 
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Al st1100 said:
It contains very little moly a little more than t6. Whats interesting is Honda makes a oil for racing only and contains quite a bit of moly and state the advantages of wear protection of moly outweigh the clutch issues that arise from moly. I guess they change clutches a lot.
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Honda's HP4M moly additive racing oil is only recommended for Honda motorcycles that have separate transmission oil that is completely separated from the engine crankcase oil. HP4M is in the engine crankcase but the clutch is not bathed in engine oil but is in oil without moly additives.

No Honda street bike is constructed like this and all Honda street bikes since 2007 have had the universal recommendation not to use engine oils with friction modifiers AKA moly additives.
 
dduelin said:
Honda's HP4M moly additive racing oil is only recommended for Honda motorcycles that have separate transmission oil that is completely separated from the engine crankcase oil. HP4M is in the engine crankcase but the clutch is not bathed in engine oil but is in oil without moly additives.

No Honda street bike is constructed like this and all Honda street bikes since 2007 have had the universal recommendation not to use engine oils with friction modifiers AKA moly additives.
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I will have to find the article where I read that, again that was for racing only not street.
 
dduelin said:
Honda's HP4M moly additive racing oil is only recommended for Honda motorcycles that have separate transmission oil that is completely separated from the engine crankcase oil. HP4M is in the engine crankcase but the clutch is not bathed in engine oil but is in oil without moly additives.

No Honda street bike is constructed like this and all Honda street bikes since 2007 have had the universal recommendation not to use engine oils with friction modifiers AKA moly additives.
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some of what is misinformation ..take it with a grain of salt but it's a good guide.
from https://www.visordown.com/news/general/busting-myths-around-bike-engine-oil

So for a wet clutch, any anti-friction oil additives are bad?
No, not in general. It is like in medicine: the dose makes the poison. For example, our LIQUI MOLY Motorbike Oil Additive is an anti-friction additive which comes with MoS2 particles as solid lubricant. Maximum dosage is three percent - and this ensures that wear and tear are reduced, but the clutch does not slip.
 
Okay, I'll jump in briefly with my experience. I know this is an apples to oranges comparison, but I feel it does show the point at which oils start to break down. I have never used Mobil 1 m/c oil until last spring when I came across it on sale. I bought a case and changed the oil in my '06 ST1300 and my '17 Yamaha SCR950. The Yamaha is where it was really evident. After 2k miles, it was getting harder to shift, especially trying to find neutral. Now here comes the apples to oranges. The Yamaha is AIR COOLED, so yes, the oil will break down faster than a liquid cooled engine. But, having used only Amsoil for the past 11k miles, I will be going back. No hard shifting or trying to find neutral all the way past 4k miles! I think that says something about the quality of their products . Jevers
 
Rick Fisher said:
I'm actually being serious about this issue, specifically, what motor oil to use in my 98 ST1100. I heard recently that synthetic oils might not be good for an older motorcycle with a wet clutch.
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Hi Rick;
I use regular 'Dino' oil on my Goldwing, but only use synthetic where recommended. So my Wing and my Dodge Cummins diesel pickup get regular 'Dino' oil, and everything else in the driveway gets synthetic.
Mike Coleman
North Lancaster
Ontario, Canada
 
I used to run Mobil1 15w50 in my ST and Wing, warmer/hotter weather in Houston. They ran great on that!

YMMV,
Rob
 
I love these oil threads; I always learn more each time one comes up. I did a quick search of 10W-40 JASO M2 and found a company called Ultra1Plus which purports to have oils that meet the specs mentioned by various posters. Being of a sceptical nature, I've sent them an email asking if they can provide certified proof of their claim. I'll post their reply when received.

In the meantime, here is a screenshot of their claim and the URL to their site. https://ultra1plus.com/ Also got a hit on their oil at Walmart; a three-quart pack runs $31.23, making it a good buy if the claims are true. Ravensol also markets a similar oil but at a much higher price point.
 

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I’ve run several hundred thousand miles on motorcycles using diesel oils, never had any issues, and better UOA’s than most motorcycle specific oils. Having said that, I still use valvoline premium blue one solution in all my bikes with outstanding results etc.
I use the Dino 15w-40 stuff.
However….I have replaced two clutches (this year) on late model ST’s (both 2016) after they started using the NEW version (non gas rated) shell oils, one 15w-40 and the other synthetic 5w-40 etc.
On both bikes, the RPM’s would race faster while the speedo showed very little gain in speed.
Uphill the bikes clutch would slip terribly.
Will I stop using valvoline diesel oils? NO, but i won’t use shell anymore.
Ymmv.
 
Igofar said:
I’ve run several hundred thousand miles on motorcycles using diesel oils, never had any issues, and better UOA’s than most motorcycle specific oils. Having said that, I still use valvoline premium blue one solution in all my bikes with outstanding results etc.
I use the Dino 15w-40 stuff.
However….I have replaced two clutches (this year) on late model ST’s (both 2016) after they started using the NEW version (non gas rated) shell oils, one 15w-40 and the other synthetic 5w-40 etc.
On both bikes, the RPM’s would race faster while the speedo showed very little gain in speed.
Uphill the bikes clutch would slip terribly.
Will I stop using valvoline diesel oils? NO, but i won’t use shell anymore.
Ymmv.
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Molybdenum, ppm 68
Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic
SAE 5W-40,

Shell Rotella T4 SAE 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil
Molybdenum >1


The t6 is a bit high on moly but the 2020 version of the t4 is right in line. I wonder if there were other factors. But I do not disregard your concerns. I wonder if any of the other additives could be a factor. T4 has double the amount of calcium than Valvoline Blue. Just info.


Valvoline Premium Blue
SAE 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil
Molybdenum, ppm50
 
I'll add one more thing that probably wasn't mentioned. Stock up on your favorite oil now.

I use Shell Rotella T6. I can buy it at Home Depot and get 10% off with a Military Discount. It's hard to find anything close to that quality of oil for that price (not withstanding the naysayers above). But try to find it now? It's sold out. If you can find it now, it is double the price.

So if you have a favorite oil, buy a couple cases now and have it on hand. Otherwise, you may end up with whatever you can find when you do your next oil change.

Chris
 
That's the older, or other Premium blue that I've used, but the stuff I'm using now is marked ONE SOLUTION for gas/diesel/propane etc.
I wonder if there is any difference?
As far as your question (wonder) about any other factors, both of these bikes used premium fuel, and didn't use any aftermarket additives or seafoam/mmo/stabil etc.
Both bikes were the "still in the crate" PD bikes being sold lately.
 
Daboo said:
I'll add one more thing that probably wasn't mentioned. Stock up on your favorite oil now.

I use Shell Rotella T6. I can buy it at Home Depot and get 10% off with a Military Discount. It's hard to find anything close to that quality of oil for that price (not withstanding the naysayers above). But try to find it now? It's sold out. If you can find it now, it is double the price.

So if you have a favorite oil, buy a couple cases now and have it on hand. Otherwise, you may end up with whatever you can find when you do your next oil change.

Chris
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Autozone has the Premium blue/one solution in 2.5 gal jugs for $35 dollars (last week)
 
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