Old Honda Question

SMSW

Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
8,201
Location
Cleveland
Bike
2010 ST1300
I'm reading a book written by a PhD in Philosophy who is also a motorcycle mechanic and has an independent repair shop. In his book he states, "The fasteners holding the engine covers on 1970s-era Hondas are Phillips head and they are always rounded out and corroded...."

Were they in fact JIS screws and NOT Phillips?
Has anyone heard the term 'starter clutch'? (Probably in relation to old Honda bikes as well).

The name of the book and the author shall remain unnamed, to protect the innocent.
 
SMSW said:
I'm reading a book written by a PhD in Philosophy who is also a motorcycle mechanic and has an independent repair shop. In his book he states, "The fasteners holding the engine covers on 1970s-era Hondas are Phillips head and they are always rounded out and corroded...."

Were they in fact JIS screws and NOT Phillips?
Has anyone heard the term 'starter clutch'? (Probably in relation to old Honda bikes as well).

The name of the book and the author shall remain unnamed, to protect the innocent.
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he probably used phillips as a generic term if he used jis someone that doesn't wench would not understand the term. Starter clutch used on many newer bikes it is just a one way roller clutch commonly used in automatic transmissions
 
Al st1100 said:
he probably used phillips as a generic term if he used jis someone that doesn't wench would not understand the term. Starter clutch used on many newer bikes it is just a one way roller clutch commonly used in automatic transmissions
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I understand what you said about using a generic term, but that's not part of my question. He is a philosopher and clearly takes great pride in his knowledge and proficiency with wrenches. He quotes Aristotle, Richard Sennett, Hannah Arendt, mentions Jefferson, Roosevelt, and others to bolster his argument. He should have used the proper term with a clarification such as, 'jis screws, similar to phillips'.

Did all Japanese bikes back in the 70's use JIS screws?
Do they all use them today?
 
Try using a pozi Phillips screwdriver it doesn’t have the taper as a standard Phillips screwdriver, bottom picture is the positionimage.jpg
 
I don't think there was a phillips head screw anywhere on either of my mid-70s CB550 projects.
 
JIS vs Phillips. The biggest anti-home wrench conspiracy ever! I was 50 years old before I found the difference. I have tossed every Phillips screwdriver & driver bit I've owned for JIS only in my toolboxes.
 
ArTravlR said:
JIS vs Phillips. The biggest anti-home wrench conspiracy ever! I was 50 years old before I found the difference. I have tossed every Phillips screwdriver & driver bit I've owned for JIS only in my toolboxes.
Click to expand...
Got you beat by a few years. I’m 44 and I just learned about JIS this week…
 
SMSW said:
Were they in fact JIS screws and NOT Phillips?
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JIS came in to effect in Japan not long after the end of WWII. It has been the standard in Japan ever since, so any Japanese motorcycle manufactured in Japan since then would have JIS fasteners.
SMSW said:
Were they in fact JIS screws and NOT Phillips?
Has anyone heard the term 'starter clutch'? (Probably in relation to old Honda bikes as well).
Click to expand...
In simplistic terms, it is a mechanism that allows for a solid connection between the drive gear of the starter motor and the driven gear of the engine so that the starter motor can turn the engine over. Once the engine starts and the engine RPM exceeds the speed of the starter motor, this mechanism allows the drive gear on the starter motor to freewheel in the opposite direction so that the starter motor is not forced to rotate backwards by the now higher speed of the driven gear.
 
I never knew about JIS for many years and yes those "Phillips " screws were always damaged by me and others using Phillips screwdrivers. Those things were a Bear to get lose. That made the Allen head screw replacement kits very popular.
If you have an early Honda I believe you can look for the little dot on the head that indicates JIS.
 
Stripped many a screw head on my CB750 and only became aware.of the JIS screwdrivers and screws in the last ten years. As Pirsig was talking about the quality of workmanship and not actually talking about the mechanics of motorcycle maintenance, he may not have been aware of the JIS screws. I know I still got many of the screws out and then reinstalled successfully with my crude generic Philips screw drivers. Don't forget that Pirsig had his BMW friend balk at him using a slice out of beer can for shim stock. The quality of the aluminum would work, but the quality of the original contents may not. i.e. Coors Lite vs Guinness.
 
I used Snap-On phillips screwdrivers on Japanese bikes for close to 40 years without any issues, before hearing that JIS screwdrivers were a thing. Now that I own a couple JIS the difference in fit is quite noticeable, but was never enough to cause me to damage screws in the past. Now that I have the JIS, I use them for everything and my Snap-Ons are collecting dust in the toolbox.
 
While no substitute for real JIS, one of the issues with Phillips is they don't seat deep enough.... thus, file or grind of a tad on a Phillips tip and they'll work much better and tend not to cam out as much. Get JIS and toss all your Phillips, JIS works on Phillips too.
 
dwalby said:
I used Snap-On phillips screwdrivers on Japanese bikes for close to 40 years without any issues, before hearing that JIS screwdrivers were a thing. Now that I own a couple JIS the difference in fit is quite noticeable, but was never enough to cause me to damage screws in the past. Now that I have the JIS, I use them for everything and my Snap-Ons are collecting dust in the toolbox.
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Maybe, just maybe, because they were Snap On the driver end stayed in good shape so didn't cause any issues.
One of my Phillips #2 gave up the ghost this weekend. Routed around in the toolbox and found a 40 year old Facom that is still like new, result.
But yes, I am a JIS convert now but retain those for motorcycle duties.
Upt'North.
 
dwalby said:
I used Snap-On phillips screwdrivers on Japanese bikes for close to 40 years without any issues,
Click to expand...
Me too, and for a long time as well. I'm not contending that Phillips can, or should, be used in place of JIS by any means. I have two sets of JIS drivers and that is all that I use on my motorcycle, and recommend the same to everyone else.
At the same time, I am of the opinion that a lot of the troubles that people have using Phillips drivers on JIS fasteners is attributable to poor quality drivers as much as it is because it is a Phillips driver being used. I have all good quality Snap-On and Mac Phillips drivers, and have never had any real problem using them on JIS fasteners.
 
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