R1150RT....The Truth???????

[thetyreman]

Well folks there seems to be alot on this Forum that have or had some experience of the above bike at one time or other,i am thinking of takeing the plunge and am looking at a 02 one with 650000 miles on her,so is there any thing that i should look out for with this yr bike and with this mileage on it,as regards know problems/recalls etc.The bike looks to be immaculate and well looked after and has a BMWSH uptill 58000 miles.
Even what is the generall opinion of these bikes in generall,i hear the serviceing on them can be pretty expensive???.
Any input would be appricated,,,,


Thanks in advance Mick

 

[Lagoonking]

Let me be the first to say that somewhere in the post is an extra "0" (I think).

 

[thetyreman]

Let me be the first to say that somewhere in the post is an extra "0" (I think).

Ah no the milage is correct/genuine

Yea well spotted 65,000 is correct and more like it.

So have you anything else to add

 

[Mellow]

Not trying to be a jerk... I know you would get better answers on issues at maybe the bmwoa or bmwsportouring sites.

However, my riding partner has 150,000 on his '03 GS. He has a friend that does any major maint for him but the engine I'm assuming is the same 1150 boxer as on his GS. We was a Honda guy and moving to the GS was unsettling for him... He's now considering the RT or ST for his next road bike once he gets dirt riding out of his system.. LOL

His GS has been very dependable. Yes, he's had to replace fork seals and a shock and a few other bits but, he has taken this bike on rides that would tear the ST apart and it has been a great bike for him.

He loves the gearing.. he can set it or 3rd and run the twisties while I'm downshifting and upshifiting all day long.

That's the only experience I have that can qualify as some help for you, hope that does help.

 

[hondast1300]

Well folks there seems to be alot on this Forum that have or had some experience of the above bike at one time or other,i am thinking of takeing the plunge and am looking at a 02 one with 650000 miles on her,so is there any thing that i should look out for with this yr bike and with this mileage on it,as regards know problems/recalls etc.The bike looks to be immaculate and well looked after and has a BMWSH uptill 58000 miles.
Even what is the generall opinion of these bikes in generall,i hear the serviceing on them can be pretty expensive???.
Any input would be appricated,,,,


Thanks in advance Mick

Having had 2 04 1150RT's 1 04 R1150GS and 1 00R1100RT I'd say don't do it. There are know issues with: pivot bearings, trans input splines, leaking clutch slave cylinders, final drive bearings, ABS faults, surging(yes even the twin sparks do this.), and harsh shifting. Plus you have normal wear items associated with 65K miles. If the bike is a steal and you can work on it yourself, maybe. Don't pay more than you can resell it for. Oil filters at dealerships are currently $19. Good luck but IMHO you're far better off with any ST.
robert

 

[thetyreman]

Having had 2 04 1150RT's 1 04 R1150GS and 1 00R1100RT I'd say don't do it. There are know issues with: pivot bearings, trans input splines, leaking clutch slave cylinders, final drive bearings, ABS faults, surging(yes even the twin sparks do this.), and harsh shifting. Plus you have normal wear items associated with 65K miles. If the bike is a steal and you can work on it yourself, maybe. Don't pay more than you can resell it for. Oil filters at dealerships are currently $19. Good luck but IMHO you're far better off with any ST.
robert

Cheers Mellow,

Hondast, Thanks for that,i would only be useing it as a 3rd bike and probably wouldnt put up any more than 3000km in the year on it,but what kind of normal wear things could i be talking about with a bike like this,is there a timeing belt/chain or what on them.I know they a shaft drive but thats about it..

 

[Chris Parker]

Mick,

I had an 02 RT and loved it... no troubles whatsoever in over 42,000 miles. They are dependable bikes if you maintain them at the scheduled intervals... in fact, they are easier to work on than the ST in several areas (oil changes, valve adjustments, removing rear tire (single sided arm helps here). At 65,000 miles you are getting a bike that is just hitting it's stride... probably won't have to do anything major to it for at least 50K on the engine. Check out BMWSportTouring.com for more concise info on the RT... you will get, like Mellow said, better info there as more owners will be there. Oh, and Oil Filters are about $13 at my local dealer.

 

[azlife4me]

I came from an '04 R1150RT and find the ST1300 to be a much better bike all around (for me). I know I would not go back after owning an ST.

 

[thetyreman]

Mick,

I had an 02 RT and loved it... no troubles whatsoever in over 42,000 miles. They are dependable bikes if you maintain them at the scheduled intervals... in fact, they are easier to work on than the ST in several areas (oil changes, valve adjustments, removing rear tire (single sided arm helps here). At 65,000 miles you are getting a bike that is just hitting it's stride... probably won't have to do anything major to it for at least 50K on the engine. Check out BMWSportTouring.com for more concise info on the RT... you will get, like Mellow said, better info there as more owners will be there. Oh, and Oil Filters are about $13 at my local dealer.

Thanks Cris had a little look at that,very imformativ,

 

[cali_rider]

Having had 2 04 1150RT's 1 04 R1150GS and 1 00R1100RT I'd say don't do it. There are know issues with: pivot bearings, trans input splines, leaking clutch slave cylinders, final drive bearings, ABS faults, surging(yes even the twin sparks do this.), and harsh shifting. Plus you have normal wear items associated with 65K miles. If the bike is a steal and you can work on it yourself, maybe. Don't pay more than you can resell it for. Oil filters at dealerships are currently $19. Good luck but IMHO you're far better off with any ST.
robert

A dual spark surging? Hmm, none of mine have and I have had more than 1. As for the oil filters, go to beemerboneyard and you can get a Bosch filter for 9 bucks. If your buying maintenance parts from your dealer you will get hosed. I find Honda to be the same way. 65k seems high as I can find alot lower mileage all day long. I just bought a 1200RT and find the 1200 to be a much better bike in almost every aspect over the 1150.

 

[dduelin]

A dual spark surging? Hmm, none of mine have and I have had more than 1. As for the oil filters, go to beemerboneyard and you can get a Bosch filter for 9 bucks. If your buying maintenance parts from your dealer you will get hosed. I find Honda to be the same way. 65k seems high as I can find alot lower mileage all day long. I just bought a 1200RT and find the 1200 to be a much better bike in almost every aspect over the 1150.

You missed the point cali. You don't have to replace the alternator belt, throttle cables, synch the throttle bodies, fuel filter and perform an input spline lube at a ST1300 major service unlike a BMW oilhead. None of these items even appear in the service requirements for the Honda but you can't neglect them on an oilhead/hexhead even though the valves are so easy to adjust on a boxer - so easy you'll enjoy doing it every 6,000 miles as required.

Some of what passes for surging on dual spark boxers is poorly synched throttle bodies or cables in use beyond the 36,000 replacement. The iconic boxer motor is really two singles with a common crankshaft. Synched throttles are critical for smooth operation.

You can't buy BMW fuel filters aftermarket but you can buy oil filters for both bikes aftermarket. The Bosch oil filter is $6 at Autozone on the corner.

 

[cali_rider]

You missed the point cali. You don't have to replace the alternator belt, throttle cables, synch the throttle bodies, fuel filter and perform an input spline lube at a ST1300 major service unlike a BMW oilhead. None of these items even appear in the service requirements for the Honda but you can't neglect them on an oilhead/hexhead even though the valves are so easy to adjust on a boxer - so easy you'll enjoy doing it every 6,000 miles as required.

Some of what passes for surging on dual spark boxers is poorly synched throttle bodies or cables in use beyond the 36,000 replacement. The iconic boxer motor is really two singles with a common crankshaft. Synched throttles are critical for smooth operation.

You can't buy BMW fuel filters aftermarket but you can buy oil filters for both bikes aftermarket. The Bosch oil filter is $6 at Autozone on the corner.

The funny part is that the service for my BMW is less than what my Honda ST was and the service intervals are closer on the ST. a 4k, 8k, 12k and a 16k service puts a service interval at every 4k miles with the honda along with higher service costs. You also forgot to mention that if you have to have the valves adjusted on an ST that you not only need the shims to do so but the cost of that alone is what my 24k mile service is costing me on my 1200rt.

BTW, you can buy a Mahn fuel filter through beemer bineyard as well which is a direct replacement for the BMW. I just found out that my 1200RT doesnt have a fuel filter but a cleanable screen so I guess I dont need to worry about replacing that.

 

[dduelin]

The funny part is that the service for my BMW is less than what my Honda ST was and the service intervals are closer on the ST. a 4k, 8k, 12k and a 16k service puts a service interval at every 4k miles with the honda along with higher service costs. You also forgot to mention that if you have to have the valves adjusted on an ST that you not only need the shims to do so but the cost of that alone is what my 24k mile service is costing me on my 1200rt.

BTW, you can buy a Mahn fuel filter through beemer bineyard as well which is a direct replacement for the BMW. I just found out that my 1200RT doesnt have a fuel filter but a cleanable screen so I guess I dont need to worry about replacing that.

The reality is you won't find anyone that goes 60, 70, 90K on a oil head without adjusting the valves but many shim under bucket Hondas do just that. The need and therefore cost of adjustment is not a given on the Honda. It is with rocker arm tappets on an R bike. My dealer wouldn't want to be quoted but I was told a valve check wasn't really necessary in his opinion until 48K. I still checked mine along the way and I passed 48K without need for adjustment and my clearances have been stable so there will likely be no need for shims for a very long time.

You did not remember correctly the service requirements for your ST. The 4K is an inspection of a few items you can do in a minute or two ( idle speed, hydraulic fluid reservoirs, brake pads ) the 8K is an oil change and more visual inspections no adjustments or replacement items. 12K brake fluid, air cleaner. 16K valves but see above. Then do it again 20K, etc.

You aren't fooling anyone but yourself when it comes to maintenance and long term cost per mile. The BMW Sport Touring Forum has endless threads about maintenance costs and lack of dealers. That doesn't bother me as I do my own work.

 

[cali_rider]

The reality is you won't find anyone that goes 60, 70, 90K on a oil head without adjusting the valves but many shim under bucket Hondas do just that. The need and therefore cost of adjustment is not a given on the Honda. It is with rocker arm tappets on an R bike. My dealer wouldn't want to be quoted but I was told a valve check wasn't really necessary in his opinion until 48K. I still checked mine along the way and I passed 48K without need for adjustment and my clearances have been stable so there will likely be no need for shims for a very long time.

You did not remember correctly the service requirements for your ST. The 4K is an inspection of a few items you can do in a minute or two ( idle speed, hydraulic fluid reservoirs, brake pads ) the 8K is an oil change and more visual inspections no adjustments or replacement items. 12K brake fluid, air cleaner. 16K valves but see above. Then do it again 20K, etc.

You aren't fooling anyone but yourself when it comes to maintenance and long term cost per mile. The BMW Sport Touring Forum has endless threads about maintenance costs and lack of dealers. That doesn't bother me as I do my own work.

I love your justification on the vlaves not necesarily needed to be checked. I am still laughing. The point made is that its an item in the service list and thats what the dealer charges. Also, if it really didnt need it, would Honda specify it be done? I agree that the valves may go 70k without an adjustment, its the nature of the design, BMW K bikes use shim under bucket. Its simply a matter of making something a regular item to be done but have it take 30 minutes by a shadetree mechanic in his driveway with minimal tools or have it set so that it only needs to be done once or twice in 100k miles but have it be done by a trained mechanic. I do my own service as well so I will take the first.

I agreee that there is alot of inspection only on the Honda service but, and this is a big but, a 8k mile service (your simple oil change and inspection) costs 300 dollars at my local Honda dealers and I confirmed that with more than 1 of my local Honda dealers. The 16k mile service was 930 dollars and that assumed the valves did not need to be adjusted and it would be another 300 dollars to do that if needed. I will also make note that while your results are that the ST will go 70k miles without a valve adjust, individual results will vary as I have seen other on here that have needed it alot earlier than that closer to 24k miles. Every bike is differnt, hence the term adjustment.

I was suprised at the true cost of regular maintenace of the Honda compared to the BMW. If someone had mentioned the maintenance cost of the ST being less than a BMW before I owned the Honda, I wouldnt of questioned it as I figured the japanese bike would be less expensive. But in my evaluation after owning both and getting dealership prices (of multiple dealers) on both bikes, the Honda costs significantly more. Have you actually done that? It doesnt seem like it. Are you familiar with the 1200 hexheads? I am guessing not as the 1200 and the 1150 boxers are completely different. You seem to try and point things out on the BMW but dont realize the ST requires some of the same things like the splines needing lubed. I have even read of a failed final drive on an ST becasue of this. Sorry but I just dont see how the ST is really a better bike in terms of regular maintenance. The St still needs its throttle bodies synched (called starter valves on the honda) only the beemer puts its access in easy reach. Oil changes are easier, valve adjustmens are easier...

 

[dduelin]

I love your justification on the vlaves not necesarily needed to be checked. I am still laughing. The point made is that its an item in the service list and thats what the dealer charges. Also, if it really didnt need it, would Honda specify it be done? I agree that the valves may go 70k without an adjustment, its the nature of the design, BMW K bikes use shim under bucket. Its simply a matter of making something a regular item to be done but have it take 30 minutes by a shadetree mechanic in his driveway with minimal tools or have it set so that it only needs to be done once or twice in 100k miles but have it be done by a trained mechanic. I do my own service as well so I will take the first.

I agreee that there is alot of inspection only on the Honda service but, and this is a big but, a 8k mile service (your simple oil change and inspection) costs 300 dollars at my local Honda dealers and I confirmed that with more than 1 of my local Honda dealers. The 16k mile service was 930 dollars and that assumed the valves did not need to be adjusted and it would be another 300 dollars to do that if needed. I will also make note that while your results are that the ST will go 70k miles without a valve adjust, individual results will vary as I have seen other on here that have needed it alot earlier than that closer to 24k miles. Every bike is differnt, hence the term adjustment.

I was suprised at the true cost of regular maintenace of the Honda compared to the BMW. If someone had mentioned the maintenance cost of the ST being less than a BMW before I owned the Honda, I wouldnt of questioned it as I figured the japanese bike would be less expensive. But in my evaluation after owning both and getting dealership prices (of multiple dealers) on both bikes, the Honda costs significantly more. Have you actually done that? It doesnt seem like it. Are you familiar with the 1200 hexheads? I am guessing not as the 1200 and the 1150 boxers are completely different. You seem to try and point things out on the BMW but dont realize the ST requires some of the same things like the splines needing lubed. I have even read of a failed final drive on an ST becasue of this. Sorry but I just dont see how the ST is really a better bike in terms of regular maintenance. The St still needs its throttle bodies synched (called starter valves on the honda) only the beemer puts its access in easy reach. Oil changes are easier, valve adjustmens are easier...

Good point about valves that can be checked and adjusted by shadetree techs. The new K bikes have no fixed maintenance interval. You have to go to an authorized BMW dealer that might be a very long way away to let a him hook up the diagnostic computer to see if they need adjustment. You can't get this computer at Pep Boys. Any reasonably competent owner that does his own maintenance can check and adjust the valves on a ST1300.

You are clearly in the dark here about spline maintenance and don't understand the basics. The BMW input splines I speak of are on the input side of the transmission - not the final drive at the rear wheel. I don't think you really want to start defending the FD failure rate on late model R and K bikes. We haven't opened that can of worms yet....I was talking about the splines on the other end. Anyone that knows anything about the layout of the flat twins from 1969 to present compared to the Honda transverse V4's layout knows the problem lies in BMW's dry clutch that slides on the input shaft. It requires periodic lubrication over the life of the bike and this requires dismantling the transmission from the back of the engine. It is easy to do just takes alot of time and woe to the owner that gets a stripped input shaft because a cheap former owner skipped the service. Honda's wet clutch has no such requirement and has essentially a zero failure rate as do most bikes with wet clutches gear-driven off the crankshaft. The BMW design is well made and will last a very long time with the required maintenance. It can also cause Big Bill to visit and many BMW owners have met Big Bill this way. Honda designed this maintenance out 50 years ago.

The Honda does not require TBI synch, it does not appear in the service requirements. Some owners do it but it is not required at 36k intervals.

I have not owned an oilhead or hexhead but I am a member of a BMWMOA chartered club with nearly 400 active members. I hear the stories, I read the stories, I know the history. I read about the engine oil seal leaks on new R12's. I read about HISS problems and hear how BMW is handling the replacement of every one of these on bikes out there. Wait until it fails and we are there for you is the plan. Hope it isn't 300 miles from a dealer which is the norm now with fewer dealers every year. I get ON and read owners complaining about FD issues. I own and maintain one of the marque and am interested in all types of motorcycles. I also personally know former BMW owners that left the marque in recent years after BMW shortened the warranty. They buy another new one but won't consider keeping it past the point where expensive out of warranty repairs may occur. I know 3 guys that sold BMW's and bought ST1300's and did not switch back in 30 days. ( R12GS, R12RT, R1150GS). I ride with them and eat pie with them. They don't share your love.

BMW will keep the telelever and duolever systems on certain bikes. They clever solutions to suspending and steering motorcycles. But at the end of the day they don't do anything a clever fork does not also do but add significant initial cost and mute the feedback from the front wheel. I think this is the crux of the "solutions to questions no one asked" criticism often leveled at them. What is the future of alternates to forks at the Motorrad? When BMW introduced the new 800 series a fork hangs on the front of all the variants. The original HP2, the new HP2 Sport and the MegaMoto have forks. All the new 650's have forks. The WSB1000 has a fork. There seems to be a pattern here. The 1300's are upgrades and not new designs, BMW has alot invested in keeping the alternate solution only with these evolutionary lines.

Keep on laughing. We will laugh right along with you. And I am glad that you you remain here with us to add your perspective.

 

[patiodadio]

I currently own a 1994 R11100 RS with 70 K on the clock. This bike has been run pretty hard and I recently had a clutch and 1st gear installed . I do believe it will do another 70 K with no problem. The valves are very easy to adjust and oil changes are a snap !
I would talk to the owner of the RT and make sure he has kept up with the maintenance . If the price was right I would buy the bike.

 

[Bones]

...the "solutions to questions no one asked" criticism often leveled at them. What is the future of alternates to forks at the Motorrad? When BMW introduced the new 800 series a fork hangs on the front of all the variants. The original HP2 and the new HP2 Sport have forks. All the new 650's have forks. The WSB1000 has a fork. The 1300's are upgrades and not new designs....

Forks on the front ends on the F bikes, and now conventional turn signal controls on the K bikes. What next?

 

[tdeboeser]

Forks on the front ends on the F bikes, and now conventional turn signal controls on the K bikes. What next?

Well... BMW's is joining WSB racing. The S1000RR is a inline 4, with conventional forks and swingarm. The frame is conventional perimeter aluminum. To race in WSB you have to have a production run of x number of bikes.

This month's Motorcyclist mag has BMW admitting they will need to price the S1000RR to compete with the Japanese bikes. Motorcyclist also had some brief info on the new K bikes. Most interesting option ---> conventional controls ( blinkers, etc. ).

So thats "what next"...

I love what BMW tries to do with their bike line. But man, the initial cost, the frequency of maintenance, and the high probability of a major problem on the road will keep me from owning a BMW.

 

[patiodadio]

I love what BMW tries to do with their bike line. But man, the initial cost, the frequency of maintenance, and the high probability of a major problem on the road will keep me from owning a BMW.

That's your loss. I have owned many brands of bikes and hope to own many more

 

[TPadden]

....I am still laughing. Also, if it really didnt need it, would Honda specify it be done? ...

Now you have me laughing .