Replacing dedicated GPS device with Smart Phone

Well, it's installed now. At least the mount for my Pixel 2 XL phone to use it as my GPS. Ran a phone charger cord from the glove box where I have a dual USB adapter plugged into a 12v socket there. Bought the phone holder from AliExpress. It took twice as long to arrive as they promised but it finally did show up. Felt that was the right holder since all others I looked at would be pressing on a phone button (power or volume) and this one has an extra pair of "feet" to keep it off those buttons.
MOTOPOWER MP0619 Bike Motorcycle Cell Phone Mount Holder
Mounted it on top center of the dash in my favorite location for a GPS unit so I can see it and still keep my eyes on the road ahead.

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I think the decision about whether to use a dedicated motorcycle GPS unit (Garmin Zumo or similar), a less expensive generic automotive unit (Chinavision, Garmin non-motorcycle navigators), or a cell phone with map display capabilities (there are hundreds of options, ranging from quite sophisticated nav applications such as Sygic to whatever simple mapping application came with the phone) needs to be based on a thoughtful assessment of what function(s) the rider wants from their navigation device.

If all the rider wants is geo-location (where am I?), then any basic cell phone app that comes with the phone will serve the purpose. Possible disadvantages include the cost of cellular data if the phone consumes it during map display, and protecting the phone from rain.

If the rider wants routing information (navigational guidance), but is not too concerned about creating custom routes that might not conform to the device's idea of what the shortest or fastest route is, then many of the upscale cell phone apps and almost all automotive (not motorcycle specific) navigators will meet that need. Possible disadvantages include inability to insert intermediate waypoints, a small screen (difficult to read), small touchpoints (difficult to operate the device while in motion or with gloves on), and rain protection.

If the rider wants unrestricted ability to create custom routes (routes with multiple intermediate waypoints to create a specific touring path), the ability to create those routes on a full-size computer then download them to the navigation device, and complete water- and weather-proofing, a motorcycle-specific GPS is probably the best choice.

The choice of which of the above three general categories of device to use will also be heavily influences by where the rider travels. In my case, I spend a lot of time riding in foreign countries where I don't know the roads or the language - hence, I use a dedicated motorcycle device (Zumo 660 on my 1100, and 590 on my 1300). But, if I did most of my riding in my own home area, where I have lived for 50 years, basic mapping from my cell phone would probably be sufficient.

Michael
 
As I've said before I really don't have fancy needs for navigation and have tested that Google Maps has everything I need. I can set a route in Google Maps to avoid highways and that keeps me off main highways and especially the Interstate. I can set waypoints or stop points to further define the route. I can save routes to my phone as well as map areas so I really don't need to use data or a cell signal, just the GPS radio. I don't mind working within the limits of how many waypoints I can set for a route and find that from any starting point to a lunch stop can be one route and from there to a destination for the evening can be a second route and save both as links on my phone. I prefer how Google Maps updates when I deviate from a planned route and provides me only enough voice prompts but not overwhelming me with multiple voice prompts for turns or to return to a planned route like my old Garmin did.

My Pixel 2 XL phone has the same waterproof rating as the Garmin Zumo 595LM has (just looked it up). In fact it is better, maybe. The IP ratings (Intrusion Protection) for devices is for both solid, as in dust, and liquid, as in water. The first number is for solid intrusion resistance and second number is for liquid intrusion resistance. There are sometimes letters and/or numbers after those but not relevant here. An "X" in the first or second position indicates "no information" about that type of intrusion. The Garmin unit is IPX7 and my phone is IP67. You can assume what dust protection the Garmin has but there is no factual data provided supporting any rating for that. All that to say I have no worries about a little rain on my phone any more than I would the same on that particular Garmin.

I'm not implying ALL phones are the same. Obviously they are not. I AM saying that I have done my homework and MY phone is as much or more than I need to do what I need for navigation. This setup allows me to reduce the number of devices I have to carry on any trip. So I don't need to spend any more money on gadgets and devices or apps and can still do everything I want.
Those who still prefer a dedicated GPS device may continue to do as they prefer and that's great. As long as you have what you need to do what you need.

Thank You to all here who provided some really helpful ideas about using a smartphone for navigation (both about using a phone and using a dedicated unit). Some of those ideas are reflected in the setup I ended up installing. Some were new ideas I hadn't thought of and some were ideas that confirmed what I was thinking about but just not certain about. Now I am certain about what I have. There were also many good ideas supporting staying with a dedicated GPS device but I didn't read anything that would change what I ended up with here.
 
I have used a Garmin automotive GPS (2460LMT) on my bikes as well as cars and vans for a few years, and have been happy with it.
 
AV8R said:
My cellphone sucks at navigation
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Mine, too, but this really is the phone I use:

482443-main-kyocera-duraxv-lte-1.jpg
 
It really is a rugged phone, built to military specs. Withstands drops well, and is rated to endure being in 6' of water for 30 minutes.
 
jfheilman said:
My phone would be very hard to use. Its password protected and locks after awhile. Don't know how that would affect interfacing with a running app on the road.
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Not sure which phone you are using, but newer android phones can let you keep the phone unlocked if they are connected to a particular bluetooth device (i.e. headset, intercom, watch, etc...).
 
Current versions of Android and Google Maps (don't know about IOS) will keep the navigation map on screen without letting the phone go to sleep or locking as long as navigation is running. I found that after navigation has been running for a long time and I receive a phone call or want to open another app I can do that and the navigation shrinks to a small box, though larger than the typical icon, that continues to run on screen. I can drag and drop this window anywhere on the screen if it is in the way. And when I want to return to full screen navigation I tap the small window and it returns to full screen. This is the big reason I wanted power to the phone while navigating. Though I have run Google Maps navigation for over an hour with the screen being active the entire time and my battery reserves really didn't drop nearly as much as I thought it would. I discovered I can run navigation on my phone for 3-4 hours before needing to find somewhere to plug it in.

I know the waterproof rating on my phone does not include having the charging plug connected. Not because of any water intrusion on the phone, but because the connector is on the outside of any water protection so the contacts in the plug will get wet likely resulting in no charging happening. With the battery reserve that I have on my phone I know I can continue navigating through a rain storm for several hours with the phone unplugged. Plenty of time to ride out of any rain, or at least ride to a lunch stop if the rain doesn't let up. And that would really only be an issue in really heavy rain or sideways rain that the windshield doesn't divert away from the phone. My phone mount places my phone behind and under the windshield so it would have to be a really persistent sideways or heavy rain to do more than simply mist around my phone a little. (BTDT with my former GPS unit mounted in the same location on my ST1100.)
 
I run a Garmin 660, 665, and Iphone 8 for navigation. I find myself depending on the phone more and more, except I can't keep the thing charging in all weather conditions. I've gone thru multiple USB ports, chargers and cords. And they always seem to crap out at the worst times. Well yesterday I installed this: https://motopowerpuck.com/ and I think my problems are over. Cordless charging in all weather and it connects directly to my Fuzeblock!! I have a big trip next week that should tell me if this is the bees knees or not.
 
playinatwork said:
I run a Garmin 660, 665, and Iphone 8 for navigation. I find myself depending on the phone more and more, except I can't keep the thing charging in all weather conditions. I've gone thru multiple USB ports, chargers and cords. And they always seem to crap out at the worst times. Well yesterday I installed this: https://motopowerpuck.com/ and I think my problems are over. Cordless charging in all weather and it connects directly to my Fuzeblock!! I have a big trip next week that should tell me if this is the bees knees or not.
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Interesting. Let us know if this powerpuck works out and how well it works.
Best of luck with your 'trip' next week.
 
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playinatwork said:
I run a Garmin 660, 665, and Iphone 8 for navigation. I find myself depending on the phone more and more, except I can't keep the thing charging in all weather conditions. I've gone thru multiple USB ports, chargers and cords. And they always seem to crap out at the worst times. Well yesterday I installed this: https://motopowerpuck.com/ and I think my problems are over. Cordless charging in all weather and it connects directly to my Fuzeblock!! I have a big trip next week that should tell me if this is the bees knees or not.
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Big trip? You are the master of understatement! Good luck Tim.

I wanted to borrow the auxiliary gas tank but Ashley reminded me you are using it for the big trip.
 
Another photo of my recent install showing inside the glove box with the power source end of the phone cord. Post 81 above shows the phone end.

238311
 
I've been using a StreetPilot 2720 for over a decade (before I bought my '07 ST13 new) and it's been fine for most of what I want. The one feature I'd really like is Waze's ability to adapt to traffic conditions. I've spent too many hours of my life sitting still on interstates in the Plains states. While I don't have a high-end phone (3 year old 3rd gen Moto G), the thought of it failing on a tour prevents me from using it as a GPS. I do run Bubbler on it while it sits in my tank bag and it works fine for that.

So here's what I'm thinking of doing. My son gave me his old Moto G (just like mine, in fact I paid for it) and my plan is to use that as a GPS, probably running Waze. One nice features of the Moto G's is that they're waterproof. My phone will remain in my tank bag and act as a hotspot, providing the WiFi data required by the 2nd phone. I'm not sure how well Waze will work when I don't have data (middle of Wyoming, etc.), but I know I can easily store sufficient offline map data for Google maps.

I hope to try this out in the coming days and I'll report back how it works.
 
There's a load of information and opinion in this thread to re-read and digest, so pardon me if I restate what others have already covered. I do think Michael's post (#82, above) is an excellent summary of the decision tree.

What follows is mostly a long (sorry about that) musing on my recent experiences and a short plan about where those musings have taken me.

My current collection of location / routing / navigation devices available for use when motorcycling comprises, in descending order of how much I use them:
  • Google Maps app on my Android phone (99%+ of situations / usage)
  • c. 2007 Garmin Nuvi 650 automobile GPS; internal battery no longer charges and I stopped updating the base map in 2015 (< 1% actual usage, but comforting to have along as an emergency backup)
  • Garmin Edge 810 bicycle GPS, c. 2014 (used for moto purposes exactly once so far, yesterday)
Mostly the phone answers my needs.
  • In nearly all situations it can tell me where I am, and how to get where I want to go, provided that I let it make the selection of routing.
    • Coupled with that, the vast majority of my rides are in areas I know well enough that it would be hard to become seriously lost.
    • If all else fails, I can bail out and follow / use larger roadways using the old-fashioned "read the signs, stupid" method of navigation, to limp home or wherever my destination is.
    • Or stop and ask for directions. Please do not take away my Man Card for mentioning that as a possible approach.
  • As a mostly fair weather rider, I'm not overly concerned about protecting the phone in wet conditions.
    • If need be, I can stash it in my tank bag or other protected location and let the audio cues prompt me when I need to be turning.
    • This relies on my having the bluetooth helmet speakers actually charged and turned on, but that's not the point here.
  • Knowing that GPS and always-on display eats the phone's battery, I routinely keep the phone plugged into a charging outlet when navigating.
    • Yes I've had issues in the past where something went wrong with charging and the phone eventually quit.
    • I've yet to fail to reach any destination because I could not use my phone to navigate me there.
  • Yes it may eat data
    • So? I'm already spending discretionary money simply by choosing to own, register, insure, and operate a vehicle that serves no practical purpose, and which is therefore clearly "for entertainment purposes only" as the saying has it.
    • If I already have the base map saved (next point) it doesn't even have to eat my data plan unless I want / need live traffic info or imagery views.
  • Reliable navigation needs a base map and cellular coverage, doesn't it?
    • Base map, yes. Cellular coverage, not so much.
    • Since Google enables me to download and save their maps for a period of time, a bit of foresight lets me do that while still connected to a WiFi network.
    • Downloading and saving the map also eliminates the problem of how to navigate through areas with no cellular data coverage, provided that I calculated the route while still in a covered area.
    • The GPS feature works even when I'm not connected to the internet, as when I've traveled outside the U.S. with no SIMM card for the non-US network. All I need to do is download and save the necessary map data ahead of time.
HOWEVER, in a few ways the phone is lacking.
  • Google Drive lets me upload and display a GPX file as if it were a route to be followed.
  • The Google Maps app will display that route on their base map, right up until I switch from map viewing to navigating or routing.
    • As soon as I start searching for a destination, or when I hit "Start Driving" without selecting a destination and calculating a route, my GPX data disappear. They stay gone unless and until I discontinue navigating.
    • Without being in Navigate mode (or "follow me as I drive" mode), Google Maps does not keep my position centered in the map view and move the map window as I travel. That make is impractical to leave the GPX route displayed and simply push the "re-center on my current location" bulls-eye every few minutes. (Not compatible with the moto gloves I wear.)
SO- if I want to pre-define some long sequence of routing- a tag run or multi-day cross-country ride, for example, where I want to control the route and make several stops and also want to choose the small lanes and byways that I prefer, and not the "fastest' or "shortest" options Google wants me to use, I'm SOL when trying to use the phone.

That brings me to my Nuvi. It's old and showing its age but still seems to know where it is most of the time. And on the few occasions where my phone has come up short, it's been a comforting fallback option.

At 12 years and counting, it certainly no longer "owes me anything", and isn't my primary navigation tool any longer. But, I must have at least a trace of Scottish blood as I hate throwing something away if it still works as intended. That said, the Nuvi is clearly near the end of its useful life. I have decided it isn't worth paying Garmin hundreds of dollars every few years to get new maps for a device whose internal battery no longer holds a charge, and which is outdated in terms of the features it offers.

Specific capabilities / amenities it lacks, apart from only functioning when on external life support, include lack of a Bluetooth interface, and an inability to ingest, display, and navigate predefined routes from GPX files.
  • I can live without the Bluetooth interface.
  • The inability to load predefined routes, on the other hand, is becoming more of an issue, particularly in light of the phone's inability to support that function.
  • So, the Nuvi may be on its way to the back of a seldom-opened drawer somewhere.
The Edge CAN ingest, display, and follow predefined routes. YAY! And, it's pretty weather resistant. BUT:
  • It's got a very small display area, as the expected use on a bicycle has my face much closer to it than it is on a motorcycle
  • I've not found or contrived a good way to mount it, yet, though I also haven't put much effort into that problem.
  • It's not clear whether I can keep it charged while in operation.
    • As a bicycle device, the Garmin engineers may have rightly presumed that it would not have access to a charger while in use so it would not need to support simultaneous use and charging.
    • When plugged in to the wall wart, the display switches to a "Charging" mode
    • Its battery, like the Nuvi's, is beginning to show signs of having been discharged and recharged too many times. It still runs for a few hours but I don't think it's as long as it used to be.
    • Given that a moto ride can easily last 12 or more hours, battery life limits are an issue.
  • I discovered yesterday that it fits nicely in the "cell phone" pocket at the end of the left sleeve on my cool-weather riding jacket. That pocket features a clear plastic panel that lets me see the display of whatever device it contains.
    • I was able to read the Edge almost as if it were a wristwatch, with a short glance.
    • But even short glances take my eyes off the road, and are therefore hazardous.
    • While the same is true of my phone and the Nuvi, they are positioned so that it takes just a flick of an eye to catch a peek. The Edge, on my sleeve and with its smaller display, takes a longer change of focus. And the plastic cover of the pocket can add to the difficulty of focusing on / seeing the display.
    • It's very close to the time of year where I switch from the jacket that has the sleeve pocket, to my mesh jacket which does not have such a feature.
So, what to do?
  • I am not going to splash out several hundred dollars (or a thousand) for a Zumo. Simply not an adequate return on the investment, for my needs.
  • Short-term:
    • Stay with the cell phone, backed up with the Nuvi. When planning extended travel, take the precaution of downloading maps for the areas I'll be in so they are available if/when I am offline.
    • If going on a multi-day road trip that follows a preordained route, print the route as a cue sheet and navigate out of the tank bag (it has a big clear panel on top, obviously intended for displaying and reading a map or directions listing).
    • Look into contriving some sort of home-brew RAM ball and PVC tubing mount for the Edge; look into whether the Edge can be fed power while operating.
  • Intermediate/longer term:
    • Replace the Nuvi with a newer, budget-friendly automotive GPS that supports loading, displaying, and navigating externally-defined routes. When traveling, or when it "matters", use the new device as my primary navigator instead of using the phone.
      • Support for alternate base maps, such as those from Open Street Map, is a plus but not a must-have.
    • Ditch the Edge for moto use
Sorry for the long post; it's been a useful way for me to analyze the issues and organize my thoughts. If it helps anyone else out, great. If not, that's 15 minutes of your life you can't get back. Sorry.
 
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SilberPfeil said:
I'm not sure how well Waze will work when I don't have data (middle of Wyoming, etc.),
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It won't. It'll pop a message about being offline.


ibike2havefun said:
  • Look into contriving some sort of home-brew RAM ball and PVC tubing mount for the Edge; look into whether the Edge can be fed power while operating.
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Works good. When I've done some longer routes and multi-day tours I built a small chrager pack that used AA batteries. It sat in a handlebar bag and kept my Edge running while charging. Now you can buy the small rechargeable USB power packs relatively cheaply.

PS My Edge has also been used to track excursions on trains and boats this way. Strap it to something on the top deck and let it run.
 
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